Obsession with Zimmer/Williams/Elfman/etc

[nikolas]

I just got a bit pissed off!

I really can't see the point in comments like "It's a bit zimmerish", or something simmilar.

There are composers, even in here :D, who don't copy paste the great ones like this. who know what they're doing!

Why all this obsession with these composers, and especially Zimmer? He definately is not THAT good!

:(

[nickysnd]

"It's a bit zimmerish",
Better zimmerish than gibberish. :p

Nikolas, whaddaya care about other people's obsessions? Mind your own obsessions - start by completely disregarding those composers, and every time you do hear their names act as if you didn't.

BTW, I think some of your compositions are a bit elsmanesque with a zimmerish williamsian twist...

:D

[Counterpoint]

Yeh, the comparisons are pretty much inevitable... I mean those guys are pretty much what most composers (film types) aspire to. Admittedly, those guys are the biggest fish in that sea. ;)

Also it's better to be "a little bit zimmerish" rather than being stuck in court because of copying every note from a different soundtrack (300 vs Titus). ;)

Obsession with Zimmer? Well... he does get the contracts for 90% of all the big Hollywood blockbusters. The real trick here is to get people obsessed with your music so that they'll start give you multi-million dollar contracts to score their films. :D

[Dannthr]

Just one up them.

If they say it's Zimmerish, say it's Holstish

If they say it's Elfmanesque, say it's Debussyesque

If they say it's Williamsish, say it's Wagneresque

You know your influences--put them in the light.

No one is NOT influenced, it's impossible, if that were true you wouldn't even be making what we call music--you'd be breaking rules because you'd never had learned them--you wouldn't even be in a recognizable tonality.

Don't worry about being compared to someone--NO ONE CAN HELP THAT.

[tmhuud]

Unfortunately its part of the way people communicate - even in the *biz*. A few weeks ago Terry was negotiating with CBS for a new tv series and the Music director kept saying things like, "Well you know if you give us lots of Steve Jablonkski's "Island" vocal stuff we will all be happy." Bla blah - you cant get a way from it really.

Cheers,

[nickysnd]

If they say it's Zimmerish, say it's Holstish

If they say it's Elfmanesque, say it's Debussyesque

If they say it's Williamsish, say it's Wagneresque

For the love of Gustav, Claude and Richard, please do not associate their names with those film composers.

As it appears to me, Elfman's polka music has a lot to do with Russian and Klezmer oom-pah (l)oom-pah folklore and very little with Debussy. Debussy's music is a completely different world, no 00mpah 00mpah there. :p

Also, Williams has a lot more to do with Howard Hanson and Shostakovich than with Wagner.

As for Zimmer, the association with Holst - only for the reason of that Glagiator dubious track - looks to me like a ludicrous exaggeration.

So leave those dead composers alone, for they are much more alive than the top film composers of today. Why is that? Because - Gustav, Claude and Richard were into making Music, while most of the top film composers, those three included, are into making Money by using (mostly) other people's music.

[V o n h ö g e n]

As it appears to me, Elfman's polka music has a lot to do with Russian and Klezmer oom-pah (l)oom-pah folklore and very little with Debussy. Debussy's music is a completely different world, no 00mpah 00mpah there. :p

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:p


By the way, Danny Elfman has written scores like Black Beauty and Family Man that don't seem to fit your characterisation. Maybe I have overlooked some Oompah Loompah's here?

-Jerome

[nickysnd]

By the way, Danny Elfman has written scores like Black Beauty and Family Man that don't seem to fit your characterisation. Maybe I have overlooked some Oompah Loompah's here?
:D

I have exaggerated, of course - Debussy's multi-faceted music includes some oom-pahs... :) But, considering things generally, the oom-pah thing is far less characteristic to Debussy's music than it is to Elfman's. BTW, I like some of Elfman's non-oompah scores, Good Will Hunting and Big Fish, for example.

Funny is that Elfman's oom-pah draws from (mostly Eastern) Europe, while Debussy's oom-pah comes from the American Ragtime... The overseas oom-pahs are more appealing, it seems... ;)
Finally, I'll continue a bit your last example - that theme it's worth remembering :

[mirrored]

I just got a bit pissed off!

I really can't see the point in comments like "It's a bit zimmerish", or something simmilar.

There are composers, even in here :D, who don't copy paste the great ones like this. who know what they're doing!

Why all this obsession with these composers, and especially Zimmer? He definately is not THAT good!

:(

I guess you are refering to my comment on The Wings of The Dragon by Vatroslav?
IMHO Zimmer is not that good too, but just felt a little like POTC so I just wrote that the piece has zimmerish feel to it, although it is quite different. With all the music going on in the media you can't get uninspired by someone eventually. That is for making music and making comments. :P
If someone feels abused by the comparison to Zimmer or just pissed :P I apologise.

IMHO comparison is sort of compliment and it is nothing to be angry with.

[DallasComposer]

"Madness is good for the sake of comparison"

- William Burroughs

[V o n h ö g e n]

Funny is that Elfman's oom-pah draws from (mostly Eastern) Europe

Really? I thought Tim Burton had recruted his Oompa Loompa's in India. :)
In Roald Dahl's original book from the early sixties, by the way, the Oompa Loompa's were black pygmies from an African tribe. After the release of the book in the USA, Roald Dahl was accused of racism, so he revised the story about the origin of he Oompa Loompa's in a later edition.


The overseas oom-pahs are more appealing, it seems... ;)

I'm afraid that's true. If we only knew which of the continents is to blame for this immigration problem... :rolleyes:


Finally, I'll continue a bit your last example - that theme it's worth remembering :

Don't forget the funny Wagner-quotes in the middle part, they are quite memorable as well.

-Jerome

[LEX]

Other than having an obsession with Elfman's wife and his nephews wife (Jenna) at one time, I wouldn't say I have an obsession for any of them or any of them not listed.

I would say rather than obsession, I have an appreciation for some of their work.

Like I would pick the Red Dragon score to listen to over the Spiderman score.

Or I'd rather listen to The Ring score than Pirates.

LEX

[nickysnd]

Other than having an obsession with Elfman's wife and his nephews wife (Jenna) at one time,
With both, at one time?! Naughty boy, naughty... :p

... Or was it the same person?!? :D

[Nash]

I just got a bit pissed off!

I really can't see the point in comments like "It's a bit zimmerish", or something simmilar.

There are composers, even in here :D, who don't copy paste the great ones like this. who know what they're doing!

Why all this obsession with these composers, and especially Zimmer? He definately is not THAT good!

:(

OK, I agree with nikolas in this one, sometimes can it be very annoying when someone tells you ‘you sound like…’
However, I don’t get pissed off for that but certainly makes you think I should do something unique and different then the others. No matter what you do in your composition it will sound like someone else because we used almost the same chords etc…

But truly, some composers are copy cats and that is not good either. Some composers do sound just like Zimmer or Elman or who ever.

Cheers,

Nash

[Quoid]

Ok Ive heard of Elfman, but who is Hands Simmer?

[nikolas]

Thing is that I get myriads of different influences, and nobody can really avoid that. But when people quote 2-3 works all the time (POTC and LOTR mainly), forgetting the other 1000s of soundtracks out there... BLIAH! ... :(

[fongi]

I just got a bit pissed off!

I really can't see the point in comments like "It's a bit zimmerish", or something simmilar.

There are composers, even in here :D, who don't copy paste the great ones like this. who know what they're doing!

Why all this obsession with these composers, and especially Zimmer? He definately is not THAT good!

:(

I´m definitely with you on this one, in fact I find some of his music well below average (I won´t go as far as to say crappy) it´s interesting to note that seldom do some of the really great film composers past and present ever get mentioned here hmmm.. why is that? Nobody ever says that´s Morriconish (has scored over 400 films) or a la Goldsmith.
Chris :confused:

[nickysnd]

it´s interesting to note that seldom do some of the really great film composers past and present ever get mentioned here hmmm.. why is that? Nobody ever says that´s Morriconish (has scored over 400 films) or a la Goldsmith.
Chris :confused:
Why, of course because Hans ROCKS and Danny iz da Man!

And they are SO charismatic, baby!

They have cool studios too!

:p

[V o n h ö g e n]

Why, of course because Hans ROCKS and Danny iz da Man!

And they are SO charismatic, baby!

They have cool studios too!

:p

I have never seen any comparison to Michael Kamen either, yet he had the coolest studio ever!

-Jerome

[nickysnd]

I have never seen any comparison to Michael Kamen either, yet he had the coolest studio ever!
Yeah, he probably had. That's the thing, the K-man is dead. :(
(what was that studio looking like, BTW?)

I doubt that Kamen was ever concerned about the look of his studio and how to lull film makers into it. Also I doubt there was ever such a honest film composer like him. Maybe Herrmann - but man, he was bitter and brutal sometimes! I have also heard a couple of Miklos Rozsa recorded interviews, a great guy as well, tough and funny! And the music - supercool! :cool:

So Fongi's question is valid - why pop composers like Danny and Hans do get all the talks and comparisons, while no one seem to remember those great composers and their fabulous music? How about Alfred Newman's influence in strings-writing for film? So why no one mentions them? But I think you know the answer. ;)

(because those great composer's influence is EVERYWHERE, even in the music that Danny and Hans are signing, but shhh - don't tell anyone, it's a secret...)

[V o n h ö g e n]

Yeah, he probably had. That's the thing, the K-man is dead. :(
(what was that studio looking like, BTW?)

Here you go!
His studio was actually an old theatre in London. The man in the front of the picture is Brad Bird, the man behind The Iron Giant, The Incredibles and Ratatouille.

Pretty intimidating "studio", don't you think?

-Jerome

357

[Nash]

In my opinion (going back to Zimmer Simmer) mr. Zimmer is definitely popular person. A few reasons for that are: He is creative composer and heavily involved in using the technology (computers,monitors, mixers, VST libraries, etc..) that has inspired lots of other young people.
There are many young composers out there and they are not interested in pencil and paper but the technology.

Zimmer's studio looks great indeed and just by looking at it people will say "wow he has so many good stuff in there, he is really cool" The word of mouth makes things bigger and bigger and thats why we end up talking about the same person all the time and forgetting about the other great composers.
For example: Many of us are involved in playing games, and I am sure soon as you mention about the games, immediately, Harry Gregson Williams will be DA MAN. Why? because he used to work with Zimmer and he has nice studio as well and he bla, bla, bla, bla...
Don't understand me wrong, I like all of them but I just want to point out why sometimes some people stands out more then the other.

Cheers!

[fongi]

I just saw Ratatouille on Wednesday, the score was Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah ! awful. :eek: and if his studio is intimidating won´t help him neccessarily make a good score will it ?

[nickysnd]

I just saw Ratatouille on Wednesday, the score was Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah ! awful. :eek: and if his studio is intimidating won´t help him neccessarily make a good score will it ?
A good score is what the producers of the film decide it is a good score. The 'intimidating' studio is just part of the scheme of making the film producers believe that the score has to be good. :p

[V o n h ö g e n]

I just saw Ratatouille on Wednesday, the score was Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah ! awful. :eek: and if his studio is intimidating won´t help him neccessarily make a good score will it ?

Fongi, Michael Kamen has died in 2003, while Brad Bird started working on Ratatouille in 2004. More importantly, Brad Bird is a director and not a composer! It's not his studio either. :) I'm afraid, you are mixing up people. :rolleyes:

I agree though, that the score of Ratatouille is not particularly good. A missed opportunity, if you ask me. It is, arguably, the only flaw of the movie, which i.m.h.o. has set new standards for animated feature films. But neither Kamen, nor Bird is to blame for the score, as the actual composer of Ratatouille is Michael Giacchino. :)

-Jerome