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rainmain
10-18-2007, 09:42 PM
Hey everyone, I'm an EWQL newbie. I just got the Gold Pro Bundle yesterday, and I'm still having issues making it work (I'm not as computer savvy as some out there). I just posted a question about using it with Finale 2008 in the Tech Support Forum, so if you know anything about that, help would be much appreciated!

I'm a composer/director, currently studying a dual masters in composition and education in Maryland. My interest is in film and concert music with an emphasis on writing for orchestra. I'm hoping EWQL will help me along in my goals and aspirations (if I can get past my lack of knowledge!). Looking forward to getting to know you/leeching off your experience. :)

Nash
10-18-2007, 09:47 PM
Brilliant!

Welcome to forum, we always like to have people like you so we can learn from each other. Impressive progress….dual masters in composition education. Nice one!

Nash

MrAlex
10-19-2007, 03:28 AM
I think the terms "lack of knowledge" and "dual masters" just don't seem to fit together that well for some reason :)

You must know a lot about music theory? I could certainly use some of that knowledge... in exchange I know a bit about computer stuff, studying a degree in computer science here so if you ever want to swap knowledge... :)

fongi
10-19-2007, 03:59 PM
Hi Rainman and welcome ! what are you a director of ??

rainmain
10-19-2007, 07:27 PM
Thanks Nash, MrAlex and fongi! I'm always happy to help with any theory or other classically related questions. That I can do, so hit me up anytime!

fongi, I've worked mostly with choirs and bands from the high school to university level. While I'm in school, though, I'm only looking for a church choir director position.

paulwr
10-19-2007, 11:24 PM
Hey everyone, I'm an EWQL newbie. I just got the Gold Pro Bundle yesterday, and I'm still having issues making it work (I'm not as computer savvy as some out there). I just posted a question about using it with Finale 2008 in the Tech Support Forum, so if you know anything about that, help would be much appreciated!

I'm a composer/director, currently studying a dual masters in composition and education in Maryland. My interest is in film and concert music with an emphasis on writing for orchestra. I'm hoping EWQL will help me along in my goals and aspirations (if I can get past my lack of knowledge!). Looking forward to getting to know you/leeching off your experience. :)

It will take awhile to get rolling. The EWQLSO will serve you very well. Do whatever you need to in getting familiar and comfortable with the technology. The best composers don't get hired if they cannot make music that sounds absolutely great, and these days that means a composer should best be a great midi musician, engineer, producer, and sound designer, orchestrator besides being a good composer. In fact all those qualities may outweigh compositional skills in importance in the music marketplace, but if you love doing it that comes anyway.

The best way to do that is to have some great orchestra recordings in the style of what you are doing on a track(s) in your sequence and occasionally compare your work. I cannot stress this enough...... Does yours compare in richness, sonic quality, mood, orchestration, etc....... Do not settle and do not kid yourself. If you find yourself veering into the darkness, don't be afraid or too lazy to back up and re-write, re-mix, re-master or whatever. Do not settle for less than the highest possible quality. And never fear turning knobs! The more you turn and listen to the changes, the more you learn and the more second nature it will be. 20 hrs reading a book about the knobs may equal 30 minutes or less of turning the knobs and listening. Do, do, do and listen and compare, listen and compare!

-Paul

paulwr
10-20-2007, 08:20 AM
Oh, one more thing........ about your choice of program for generating your midi......
I have never heard of a composer creating their midi mockups on anything but an advanced sequencer such as Cubase, Logic, Performer, Sonar. Cubase and Logic probably being the most used at the highest level by the big Hollywood composers. Once it is done there, and you need professional notation for creating your printed score, then you would at that point port the midi into your preferred notation program merging your different articulation tracks for the same instrument, removing all the keyswitches (notes for triggering various instrument articulations) and sorting out the divisi parts, plus doing whatever other messaging of the notation to get it right. Quick a handfull of work, to be sure.

In your case I can imagine you perhaps wanting to get practice in at writing the notation first, and that assignments you get may require it. Since the instruments in EW have so many many articulations that you'll need for realism, this could get tough and hopefully someone here can shed more light on that. BUT, the pros do not do it that way. You WILL need to commit to a professional sequencer at some point to be able to get deep enough into midi and your plugins to create professional 'movie ready' or 'TV' ready quality, and YOU WILL want to be proficient at the process. It honestly may seem overwhelming at first for awhile, especially while you sort out technical bugs on the way to a stable system/workflow. Keep at it because you must, and soon it will all start to smooth out and you'll be creating without bumbing into technical obstacles.

-Paul

rainmain
10-20-2007, 11:09 AM
Thanks paulwr, this is all quite helpful. I actually do have a new version of Cubase (as well as a few others I've used in the past such Cool Edit Pro 2 ...still can't afford protools) and a synthesizer that can be used for midi (though it's probably not a truly professional model, it still works well).

I'm actually somewhat proficient when it comes to mixing and editing, as I've always done this myself with my live and studio recordings... my problem is more about being able to use the EWQLSO sounds at all!

So Cubase is the program to use. Cool. I'm relatively new to the program, but I've got a bit of a handle on it. How can I apply the EWQLSO sounds to the midi tracks in Cubase? I feel like I've tried everything, could someone guide me a bit, or at least point me in the right direction. Thanks for being patient with me folks...

Andoran
10-20-2007, 11:47 AM
Paul makes quite a few very good points, especially regarding noodling around with the different (numerous) articulations, knobs and buttons and Listening.The only other thing I would suggest is to get rid of Cubase and purchase Sonar Producer Edition Immediatelly!

Eddie <=== Diehard Sonar Fan

MrAlex
10-20-2007, 06:26 PM
I'm an avid FLStudio fan myself - I haven't seen any program that can do anything that flstudio can't... although sometimes FLStudio needs a lot of work arounds.. and work arounds take time...

So maybe I'll have to dump my old familiar flstudio for cubase, and probably take 2 years transfering my skills to the new app. Sooner rather than later I guess, and my one tip would be if you're just starting out, start with the best tools available. I've switched between different software apps in the past and each time it's like starting over.

paulwr
10-20-2007, 08:14 PM
Thanks paulwr, this is all quite helpful. I actually do have a new version of Cubase (as well as a few others I've used in the past such Cool Edit Pro 2 ...still can't afford protools) and a synthesizer that can be used for midi (though it's probably not a truly professional model, it still works well).

I'm actually somewhat proficient when it comes to mixing and editing, as I've always done this myself with my live and studio recordings... my problem is more about being able to use the EWQLSO sounds at all!

So Cubase is the program to use. Cool. I'm relatively new to the program, but I've got a bit of a handle on it. How can I apply the EWQLSO sounds to the midi tracks in Cubase? I feel like I've tried everything, could someone guide me a bit, or at least point me in the right direction. Thanks for being patient with me folks...

Everyone has their favorite program, and all four high end ones seem to be sufficient for anyone who decides to get good at them.

1. What version of Cubase are you on? I, and many others doing full orchestration on deadlines have stuck with SX version 3.0.

2. Do you have a full version of Kontakt2? This could be sticky in that you might not be able to buy Kontkt2 any more with Kontakt 3 having just been released. I am using version 2.1.1.001 which is one or two version away from the latest in Kontakt 2. More stable and as you get into this orchestration biz, THAT IS PRIMARY! You are not composing when you are having technical problems, so sometimes you have to sidestep the latest thing, especially when you are talking about your main sequencer and vst instruments and effects being run by it.

All the info is in your manual, but the basics to instrument setup is simple..... IF you already have your vst connections setup for your audio (under Devices) AND you have the ewqlso loaded properly with the library sound files on a dedicated internal hard drive, I don't have Cubase 4 and it may be different.

Go to Devices, vst instruments. A dialog box pops up. Click in the first empty box and the list should include, among others, your EWWoodwinds EWStings EWBrass EWPerc. It may be in the main list, or the sublist under VST. If you have the Kontakt full version, at this point you'd actually choose Kontakt, but I'll just suppose you don't since you didn't mention it. So, hopefull you'll have enough resources in the computer to open all four orchestra sections.

Now, go to each Kompakt engine that has appeared for each orchestra section you have opened. Load it up with the sounds you want. Take it easy this time out and just open maybe a few per orch section so you don't overload anything. You'll notice each instrument will have a midi channel. (you can use the little keyboard that is part of the Kompakt engine.... you can use your mouse to be sure the instrument makes sound. If note, you'll have to figure out your audio connections under Devices, and also go to the folder(s) that has appeared in you track list.

Next, you create midi tracks that have the correstponding OUT as the Kompakt instrument section you want, and the mid channel. You should then be able to play each instrument. When you see people on this forum speaking of Templates, this is the setup of all the tracks (I setup about 200 of them) for all the instruments/articulations you use, and having the setup done on all the Instruments themselves on slave computers and within your sequencing computer in the various Kontakt, Kompakt, Gigastudio, and assorted other playback sampler and synth engines you have loaded up.

I hope this helps and is longer winded than I wanted, but it is the basics. As you move forward, you'll very soon be wanting to add a couple of computers to your setup so you actually have a workflow for creating high quality work. While a lot of assignments you get in school won't demand studio quality, you should probably be demanding it of yourself. It will be the difference between getting hired or not in the real world. You can accomplish a very large networked slave system without resorting to expensive Pro Tools setups or Digital consoles, etc. I use a network of RME cards for light pipe and you can recieve those on a variety of audio interfaces such as RME Fireface 800, or MOTU. I have a setup figured that will handle four slaves into the Fireface 800 with two sets of stereo audio per slave, and it will work with up to eight slaves with just one stereo audio per slave. Very economical compared with ProTools.

Yikes, I've got to get back to work! Hope this helps, and Good Luck! Read your Cubase manual since it can answer 98% of you Cubase quesions.

-Paul

armi
10-22-2007, 02:57 AM
Raiman,

Did you manage to get Finale 2008 and EWQLSO up and running? I am having difficulties getting going! I have assignments to compose for my degree and still not figured how to get going.... I have a Mac intel which has finale 2008. I bought EWQLSO, Ra, and Symphonic Choirs. Because of the large memory required I then bought an eternal hardrive so I could keep the samples for all of them on the hardrive (its fast and uses a firewire). I then installed the Eastwest software and have successfully registered. I then discovered I needed Kontakt 2 Player to get it working. I have now bought Kontakt 2 Player. However, how do I get it all up and running? After spending all this money I emailed Finale.com and they said that it is not compatable. Ahhhh.....! HELP. I do also have Logic 7 on my Mac and having got it up and running with that yet either. I would really prefer to get it up and running with Finale as I need to compse with the notation (big film score). Can anyone point me in the right direction. Computer wizzers please spell everything out as I'm not computer literate... thankfully better at composition though, hopefully!

could someone take me through a step by step click here and do this guide as to getting Finale 2008 and EWQLSO and the others up and running. PLEASE.

I do also have Windows with Finale 2008 on but the problem being it doesn't have much memory and all the samples and files re Eastwest are nicely (after lots of figuring out) installed onto the Mac. I can't use the external hardrive on the PC as the cable doesn't fit (it is a firewire and the PC only has a USB port, plus it is old etc... hence focusing on the Mac).