18 Violins x 3 = 54?

[MrAlex]

If I play a chord with 3 notes using the 18 violins patch in EWQLSO will that result in the sound of 18x3=54 violins?

Is EWQLSO smarter than that, or have I misunderstood the term "18 Violins" entirely?

[bobbyem]

I guess you will end up with 3 identical violin sections of 18 layering :) The samples does not split the lines up into 1st and second violins(im might be wrong but i doubt it). There is another VSTi that does this, but as long as it sounds good it does not matter what the numbers say, thats what i think at least.

Some times i get stuck in thinking: "Well i cant have two diffent 10 cello lines going at the same time thats not realistic". But it does not matter if it sounds good with 2x10 cello sections going at the same time. If this helps your "mock up" do it i would say. The guy listening isnt gonna go" well it sounds pretty thin, but its great that the player ratio is realistic" :)

Well i might be talking out of my rear end :)

[MrAlex]

I couldn't agree more for most intents and purposes it probably doesn't matter that the ratios are unrealistic.

It's just a strange oddity I've been slightly amused by. I can just see an orchestra filing out onto stage, complete with 108 violinists, 18 for each note of a 4 line piece that some MIDI / Sample Lib composer absolutely insisted must match his score exactly :)

[Pietro]

And an army of french horn players :) (for each voice x 6)

Don't bother too much on this topic. You wouldn't know the difference if you were not using the library (and... most people don't ;) )

- Piotr

[bobbyem]

Yeah or Hans Zimmers 200x4 french horn section :) If youv heard his mock up for Gladiator Waltz youl know what i mean :)

[MrAlex]

Actually, this could revolutionize the whole symphony orchestra experience! With a thousand or so musicians required, the first half of the show could be the marching of the musicians as they make their way in rank and file onto the stage in a glorious fanfare of light and sound... See the trumpeters march, the violinists proudly striding in harmony, the percussionists sweating and heaving, the harpist lying on the floor with a hernia...

I guess one way to do it "right" is use many layered solo instruments, but I doubt that would have the same sense of depth as the full section.

[Pietro]

You are late, mate :D

Someone already did that and it was hundred years ago. The guys' name was Mahler. Gustav Mahler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._8_(Mahler)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c6/8th.jpg

But if I recall correctly, it was incredibly boring :)

- Piotr

[MrAlex]

Zounds! My dreams of revolutionizing world culture dashed before they had a chance to begin! Again!

[ewkarl7777]

re; revolutionizing world culture

"How can you start a revolution when the revolution before last has already said anything goes?" - Charles Wuorinen

[jologman2000]

maybe we should start requesting 3-note chord samples from doug and nick. with 64-bit, it might actually be possible. just wishful thinking.

regards.

[MrAlex]

re; revolutionizing world culture

"How can you start a revolution when the revolution before last has already said anything goes?" - Charles Wuorinen

Start a new revolution which symbolizes "Nothing is allowed unless we say so"
Then when everyone's forgotten about the "Anything goes" thing, it can start all over again and all the kids can think it's new!


re: sampling chords - I can imagine this would take the size of the library from gigabytes into terabytes... A few years ago I may have scoffed heartily at the suggestion but now it seems may soon be feasible.

[LEX]

If I play a chord with 3 notes using the 18 violins patch in EWQLSO will that result in the sound of 18x3=54 violins?

Is EWQLSO smarter than that, or have I misunderstood the term "18 Violins" entirely?

Layering, doubling or triple tracking isn't uncommon in film scoring.

Though, it always sounds better with a live orchestra.

Rework your orchestration for samples if you are using an all sample score.

That is probably your best option.

LEX

[paulwr]

If I play a chord with 3 notes using the 18 violins patch in EWQLSO will that result in the sound of 18x3=54 violins?

Is EWQLSO smarter than that, or have I misunderstood the term "18 Violins" entirely?

Occasionally take the time to split things up. You have your 18v 11v and 10 violas, right? It's a good sound, time proven! And in Pro xp you can go the 'divisi' route and use your 4violin articulations for chords. This all creates different sound textures, go nuts! You got the amazing tools to do it!

-Paul

[Composing_automat]

Though, it always sounds better with a live orchestra.


Has it really been proven that live music is better than sampled music when listening e.g. mp3 files?

[Walker T]

Live music has the resonance of all the instruments sounding together in the room. Real reverb, where one instruments sound is actively affected by all the others. Can't fake that, as of yet.

[Composing_automat]

Live music has the resonance of all the instruments sounding together in the room. Real reverb, where one instruments sound is actively affected by all the others. Can't fake that, as of yet.

Not even when using mp3s? Any proper blind tests available?

[iLoked]

Actually, this could revolutionize the whole symphony orchestra experience! With a thousand or so musicians required, the first half of the show could be the marching of the musicians as they make their way in rank and file onto the stage in a glorious fanfare of light and sound... See the trumpeters march, the violinists proudly striding in harmony, the percussionists sweating and heaving, the harpist lying on the floor with a hernia...

I guess one way to do it "right" is use many layered solo instruments, but I doubt that would have the same sense of depth as the full section.

And then that one last moment, when everyone´s tuning their instruments.. I can see it clearly: babies crying, ears bleeding etc. :o

[joelv]

Not even when using mp3s? Any proper blind tests available?


Why MP3? You can compare MP3 to the real thing, thats just wrong.

[Dannthr]

Not even when using mp3s? Any proper blind tests available?

Why don't you make one?

[barlowjam]

If I play a chord with 3 notes using the 18 violins patch in EWQLSO will that result in the sound of 18x3=54 violins?


You know, it's not just the impressive musical talent on this site... It's not just the technical expertise... or the obvious love of and dedication to music that so many here display... and it's not just the camaraderie and the joy of hearing the thoughts and opinions of so many talented folks...

... it’s the math. :D


(BTW - I would +1 the 'if it sounds good it is good' remarks.)

[MrAlex]

Then you'd be +1ing the ignorant fools. Fools. FOOLS. :D

[XGener8or]

Not even when using mp3s? Any proper blind tests available?

Well, what you seem to want is this test:

You get an ensemble of musicians in a room. You record their song and make it MP3.

Then you also have a pair of speakers and an MP3 player in the room.

Now, you go in blindfolded.

Then either the musicians play the song live, or you play it on the MP3 player through the speakers.

You tell me if you can't tell the difference. If you can't, maybe you should get your ears examined :D