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calaf
04-13-2005, 06:04 AM
i would like to know what is more effective to get additional power in order to use the gold or platinum with several instruments:increasing RAM,or changing processor (the for me a G5 instead of a G4 computer) .?
I understand that the more power(Ram+CPU) you give to ewqlso the best it works ,but if you have to choose between more RAM on the same computer or a new computer (G5 Cpu) which one gives the best result?
As for the HDrive,7200T seems to be standard .
As i am new in this big orchestral libraries ,how do you use(connect and pilot) many computers together? midi,network,firewire,...
I work with Logic7 ,is it through the "node"application ?
Thanks for helping me to be familiar with this.

Doug Rogers
04-13-2005, 08:37 AM
i would like to know what is more effective to get additional power in order to use the gold or platinum with several instruments:increasing RAM,or changing processor (the for me a G5 instead of a G4 computer) .?
I understand that the more power(Ram+CPU) you give to ewqlso the best it works ,but if you have to choose between more RAM on the same computer or a new computer (G5 Cpu) which one gives the best result?
As for the HDrive,7200T seems to be standard .
As i am new in this big orchestral libraries ,how do you use(connect and pilot) many computers together? midi,network,firewire,...
I work with Logic7 ,is it through the "node"application ?
Thanks for helping me to be familiar with this.

More ram is more important than Ghz, however, if you can afford a G5, it offers other significant advantages over the G4. Our G5s have 3 Gigs of RAM and they work great with Platinum.

- Doug

calaf
04-15-2005, 12:26 PM
As i am new in this big orchestral libraries ,how do you use(connect and pilot) many computers together? midi,network,firewire,...
I work with Logic7 ,is it through the "node"application ?
Thanks again for helping me to be familiar with this.[/QUOTE]

fvicente
04-15-2005, 03:16 PM
Hi Calaf,

Apple's Node Technology built into Logic only works with Logic plugins but not all of them. It does not work in exs-24 for example. In order to use multiple computers, you need to use a VST Host in the additional computers such as Forte, V-Stack, SpinAudio, etc. There are a few of them around. You then load up an instance of the Kompakt player (you can also use other VSTi's at the same time on different midi channels/ports). Then, you need an interface in order to send MIDI to those applications - you can either use a regular MIDI interface or use something such as MIDIOverLan in order to transmit the notes to the "node" computers. Additionally, you also need an audio interface for each of the "node" computers.

Basically, your node computers become like regular hardware modules so, if you think in those terms, you need a way to connect MIDI and Audio to your main DAW computer.

HTH,
fvicente

Composer
04-15-2005, 04:21 PM
Doug, you say that your G5s work great with Platinum with only 3GB of RAM? Is that running a sequencer too? Because I just bought a dual 2.0 GHZ G5 and got 4GB of RAM in it, but have been reluctant to get Platinum over Gold (I have not purchased either yet) because I didn't think my single computer could handle it.

Do you think it would be possible to run Platinum (no huge Mahler-esque orchestrations) on a single dual 2.0GHZ G5 with 4GB of RAM alongside Digital Performer just fine?

Meehhhh... even as I type this I'm having doubts. I think that with 4GB of RAM I could run Gold along with DP flawlessly, but with Platinum... I dunno. But then again, if I limit the mic positions (none of that all three at the same time stuff) then it wouldn't be much different from Gold right?

Just to be clear - in Gold I know you only have the stage mics and in Platinum you have all three - but you can choose to load the instruments with just a single mic, right? Like if I'm going to write a very small chamber piece for harp and violin, could I just load only their close mics? I'm sure the answer is yes.

I rambled a bit, I apologize - I'm merely thinking out loud. Its either gonna be Gold and the choir for $1200 or Platinum if I think my computer could handle it.

neoTypic
04-15-2005, 05:22 PM
Just to be clear - in Gold I know you only have the stage mics and in Platinum you have all three - but you can choose to load the instruments with just a single mic, right? Like if I'm going to write a very small chamber piece for harp and violin, could I just load only their close mics? I'm sure the answer is yes.

That is correct. ;)

The mics are independant from one another so you can load only one perspective at a time, bounce the tracks, and mix to taste.

Composer
04-15-2005, 07:30 PM
So in thy humble opinion, sire, if I'm thinking of getting Gold rather than Platinum merely because I think my G5 with 4GB of RAM couldn't handle the flagship librarie I am mistaken?

Edit: and how on earth do you already have 40 posts here?! :eek: :D

neoTypic
04-15-2005, 10:13 PM
So in thy humble opinion, sire, if I'm thinking of getting Gold rather than Platinum merely because I think my G5 with 4GB of RAM couldn't handle the flagship librarie I am mistaken?

Edit: and how on earth do you already have 40 posts here?! :eek: :D

Not royalty here bud! *laughs*

In my oh so humble opinion that is correct. I think with 4gigs of RAM your G5 should be more than capable of running Platinum since I was informed by Doug that I could get good results on my P4 w/1.5G of RAM if I added another gig.

I wouldn't expect to run a whole orchestra with all it's mic positions at once, but you could probably load a decent ammount into 4gigs (:p) and then bounce different mic positions and mix the resulting audio files like I said before.

The only real difference I see is that you're loading 24 bit samples instead of 16 bit samples since you can technically use the same exact mic position that Gold comes with.

In regards to posts: umn, I ask a lot of stupid questions and try to be helpful? :p Heheh.

Steve Karl
04-15-2005, 11:23 PM
Here are some observations and tests run with Gold on 2 machines.

AMD 3000+ Barton Core 1 gig of DDR:
Can run 5 instances of gold in Sonar latency slider is at 2.9.
It will stop running at 1.5.

At 2.9 I can feel the lag under my fingers when playing a part on my keyboard.
Not acceptable!
At 1.5 it's ok, however Gold wont run. I'd have to freeze tracks.

On my AMD 1100 tbird with 1 gig of pc133:
I can run the same 5 instances of Gold, same song,
with the latency slider at up a bit higher than 2.9.
However playing a part along with anything else is useless.

None of the above is relative to ram at all.
It's ALL about CPU power.

I was going to upgrade the ram to the max on both of these boxes but decieded my money would be better spent building the new box I just order parts for.

AMD64 4000+ 1mb L2 cache - 939 Socket.
MSI NeoPlatinum nForce3 Ultra chipset.
2 gig DDR ram.

The 1mb L2 cache is the way to go if you're a PC user.

The stronger processor is going to give me more functional power than more ram on the old boxes. I'll be adding an other 2gig of DDR to the new box in a month or 3.
But in my opinion it's all about processor power is you want low latency and the ability to
have your fingers dance on the keys as opposed to struggling with the game of catching up to the tracks that are already recorded.

Latency may be a different animal in MAC world ... I don't know.

I also re-tested Forte after tweaking some buffer settings in my sound cards.
The latency is *very good* as I see it and it's the best GUI out there.
I'm going to order it.

Steve

johnyc
04-16-2005, 12:12 AM
By 5 instances do you mean you are able to run 5 kompakts each having 8 instruments loaded for a total of 40 instruments loaded?
And how many mbs of samples do you have loaded on average per instance?
Also how often do you have 30+ instuments playing at the SAME time in the sequencer?

I'm trying to get an idea of what i'd be able to have playback in real time without any pops, clicks, and lags because I have a similar setupas you: AMD 3200+ Barton, 1gb ddr, nforce 2 mobo

THanks for any help,
Jon

Here are some observations and tests run with Gold on 2 machines.

AMD 3000+ Barton Core 1 gig of DDR:
Can run 5 instances of gold in Sonar latency slider is at 2.9.
It will stop running at 1.5.

At 2.9 I can feel the lag under my fingers when playing a part on my keyboard.
Not acceptable!
At 1.5 it's ok, however Gold wont run. I'd have to freeze tracks.

On my AMD 1100 tbird with 1 gig of pc133:
I can run the same 5 instances of Gold, same song,
with the latency slider at up a bit higher than 2.9.
However playing a part along with anything else is useless.

None of the above is relative to ram at all.
It's ALL about CPU power.

I was going to upgrade the ram to the max on both of these boxes but decieded my money would be better spent building the new box I just order parts for.

AMD64 4000+ 1mb L2 cache - 939 Socket.
MSI NeoPlatinum nForce3 Ultra chipset.
2 gig DDR ram.

The 1mb L2 cache is the way to go if you're a PC user.

The stronger processor is going to give me more functional power than more ram on the old boxes. I'll be adding an other 2gig of DDR to the new box in a month or 3.
But in my opinion it's all about processor power is you want low latency and the ability to
have your fingers dance on the keys as opposed to struggling with the game of catching up to the tracks that are already recorded.

Latency may be a different animal in MAC world ... I don't know.

I also re-tested Forte after tweaking some buffer settings in my sound cards.
The latency is *very good* as I see it and it's the best GUI out there.
I'm going to order it.

Steve

neoTypic
04-16-2005, 12:39 AM
Thanks for the specs, those are indeed usefull.

I was just stating from a "how many instruments can I load" standpoint that more RAM is better. For better latency more CPU and a good audio card will do yah.

deathadder79
04-17-2005, 08:02 PM
Very helpful thread indeed... I myself am getting a dual 2.0 hgz G5 in a couple months, so this is very helpful for me too... it would be nice to know how much bouncing I would have to look forward to (using only one mic position)... on average...

Steve Karl
04-19-2005, 06:56 AM
By 5 instances do you mean you are able to run 5 kompakts each having 8 instruments loaded for a total of 40 instruments loaded?
And how many mbs of samples do you have loaded on average per instance?
Also how often do you have 30+ instuments playing at the SAME time in the sequencer?

I'm trying to get an idea of what i'd be able to have playback in real time without any pops, clicks, and lags because I have a similar setupas you: AMD 3200+ Barton, 1gb ddr, nforce 2 mobo

THanks for any help,
Jon

Let's call it 8 instances of kompakt and about 30 instruments.
I can't judge the MB of samples at this point.

I'll try to remember to load that test file up and get back to you soon.

OK:
In Sonar:

@ 2.9 with 4 buffers latency = 8.7ms
@ 1.5 with 4 buffers latency = 4.4ms

Ram "Commit Charge" according to Windows Task manager is 623 MB.
Virtual Memory is ON. Fixed swap file on an other partition but same physical drive as
the Gold library.
I see more capacity for loading samples with it on, and no performance problems
with it on.

Steve

Doug Rogers
04-19-2005, 08:05 AM
Virtual Memory should be off (and hyperthreading if you have that).

What you can load depends on 'what' you are loading. For example, you will load less if you are loading one of the big string programs. More if you are loading percussion programs etc.

- Doug

Doug Rogers
04-19-2005, 08:12 AM
So in thy humble opinion, sire, if I'm thinking of getting Gold rather than Platinum merely because I think my G5 with 4GB of RAM couldn't handle the flagship librarie I am mistaken?

Yes, you have a higher spec machine than our G5s, and they run fine with Platinum.

The greatest efficiency can be achieved by composing with the stage mics only. Once your composition is complete, render (bounce) the other mic positions to your audio sequencer and mix there. Your mix will mainly consist of a blend of stage and hall. Close mics are for bringing instruments forward in the mix (spot mics). The audience in a concert hall doesn't usually hear instruments as the close mics do, so they should be used sparingly.

- Doug

Steve Karl
04-19-2005, 12:28 PM
Virtual Memory should be off (and hyperthreading if you have that).

What you can load depends on 'what' you are loading. For example, you will load less if you are loading one of the big string programs. More if you are loading percussion programs etc.

- Doug

Well... I just tested it again for about 40 minutes and:

In an ideal situation, yes, I agree. I'd not have it on if I had 4gig of ram.

However I've only got 1gig of ram here, and I'm really not seeing any performance difference with VM on, ( with a fixed unchangable size ) ... or off...
i.e. "if" I don't try to load to many instruments and instances.

With VM on:
I can over load 100 MB past my available physical ram, and still see the song play with minimal problems. Al lil dropped note here and there.
But at least I've got all the players in the building at this point, even if they're not on the stage, and I can freeze and unfreeze when necessary, and work around it.

Of course, I have no idea how VM works on a MAC system.

Steve

johnyc
04-19-2005, 01:50 PM
Let's call it 8 instances of kompakt and about 30 instruments.
I can't judge the MB of samples at this point.

I'll try to remember to load that test file up and get back to you soon.

OK:
In Sonar:

@ 2.9 with 4 buffers latency = 8.7ms
@ 1.5 with 4 buffers latency = 4.4ms

Ram "Commit Charge" according to Windows Task manager is 623 MB.
Virtual Memory is ON. Fixed swap file on an other partition but same physical drive as
the Gold library.
I see more capacity for loading samples with it on, and no performance problems
with it on.

Steve

So are you also playing back a score that often has more than 20 of the instruments playing back at the same time? Or are you just loading up 30 instuments, and playing in real time a single instrument?

I've never used sonar before, could you please explain what those latency settings mean? When you strike a key on a midi controller it will take 8.7 and 4.4ms till a sound is heard??
8.7 and 4.4ms is pretty much undetectable isn't it?

Thanks,
Jon

Steve Karl
04-19-2005, 02:08 PM
So are you also playing back a score that often has more than 20 of the instruments playing back at the same time? Or are you just loading up 30 instuments, and playing in real time a single instrument?

I've never used sonar before, could you please explain what those latency settings mean? When you strike a key on a midi controller it will take 8.7 and 4.4ms till a sound is heard??
8.7 and 4.4ms is pretty much undetectable isn't it?

Thanks,
Jon

Correct on the latency. at 4.4 I suspect it's as good as some harware keyboards.

It's a pretty dense project in palces.
I didn't write or play any of it. I've just been using it as a test file.
It's not a constant legato of 20 or 30 instruments, but is a full production.

Steve

johnyc
04-19-2005, 08:35 PM
Correct on the latency. at 4.4 I suspect it's as good as some harware keyboards.

It's a pretty dense project in palces.
I didn't write or play any of it. I've just been using it as a test file.
It's not a constant legato of 20 or 30 instruments, but is a full production.

Steve

Sounds pretty good to me. Still curious as to what the average mb of samples loaded is in each kompact instance though.
Kompact should have a little display in the upper left hand side, right under the "save" button. You could just click on each patch, write down the number for each and add em up to get a good estimate..

ToddK
04-19-2005, 09:00 PM
No matter how much ram you have, you will only be able to play as
many voices at the same, as your CPU/harddrive speed will allow.

The amount of RAM only has to do with how many patches you can load
into Kompakt/Kontakt at one time. NOT how many you can play.


I see more RAM as an advantage in the fact that i can have many patches loaded
at once, then i can write and bounce freely, without having to nix a patch and
load another.

More RAM will not let you play more instruments at once, IE, it
doesnt increase polyphony. ITs just more convienient for managing
a large project.

I'm using a P4 3ghz with 3 7200 SATA drives,and 3 gig of fast ram.
And ive got Gold humming away quite happily. Now that ive got Kontakt 2,
i'm really getting wonderful performance. If you have Gold/Platinum, i
would HIGHLY suggest getting K2. I think its the shizznizzle. :D

TK

johnyc
04-19-2005, 09:37 PM
Hey ToddK what do you think about the samples included with Kontakt 2?
How are the orchestral geared ones?

ToddK
04-19-2005, 11:16 PM
I dont know, i havent tried any of the K2 sounds yet.

As soon as i got it, i started re-making my templates for Gold in K2.
I've been learning K2 itself and just messing around with it.

I really love it. The performance is great.

I'll load up some K2 sounds tomorrow and post my opinion. Maybe i'll
post a demo or something.:)

TK

calaf
04-20-2005, 12:43 AM
My worry is to be able to use platinum on my powerbook,using of course a single mike positon.
How many instruments will i be able to play without having to freeze tracks (Logic 7)?
the issue is mainly about the power consumption of the gold /platinum(24 bit).
I have 1Ghz Ram and a powerbook G4 1,5.
For instance lately i work a lot on classical woodwinds orchestrations (2-2-2-2)often with SIBELIUS is it possible to open such samples on the laptop with platinum or do i need to use gold for the moment (waiting for G5)?
Some help would be nice .

johnyc
04-20-2005, 12:44 AM
That'd be nice, you definately should.