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View Full Version : A new way of dealing with Gold release tails?...


T. S.
07-09-2005, 01:52 AM
I don't know about the rest of you but the release samples in Gold have bugged me from the first day I got it (kind of a love hate relationship). I tried just about everything from changeing thier Vol-Envelopes to just plain deleteing them but nothing worked that satisfied me. I use volume changes a lot, especialy at the end of notes comeing into the next note and all I got was that famous "sucking" sound.

First of all I haven't used this idea yet in an actual composition but I did test it quite a bit and it seemed to smoothe things out immensly. Also, I've only done this with a few of the "18V strings" like Legato and Sus but I think it will work on many other instruments as well. This is of course useing Kontact-2.

1: After importing the instrument I clicked on Group Editor. I then set "Edit All Groups" to (off) and selected only the Group(s) that are designated "on" (key on notes).

2: I then went to the "Amplifier" section and set the Volume to (0.0db).

3: Going back to the "Group Editor " I selected only the release sample group(s) that had "rel" in them and then went back to the "Amplifier" and turned the Volume completely off (-Infinity).

4: Without touching the "Group Editor" (only the "rel" samples still selected) I then went to the "Group Insert Fx". There I selected the first Fx bin, scrolled down to 'Effects" and selected "Send Level".

5: From there I went to "Instrument Send Fx" and in the first bin I selected Convolution. Actualy here you could select any reverb or convolution you deem appropriate. I happened to pick "Medium Rooms>Chamber Big" .

6: Once you've selected the reverb, a "knob" type adjustment shows up right under "Group Insert Fx". Depending on the Instrument that I had loaded I ended up setting this "knob" to from (-32db to -16db). As you play various notes from the keyboard you simply set this so that the "rel" tails sound smoothe at all velocity levels. On a few instruments I also increased the "IR Size" on the reverb.

Edit: I forgot a couple of other rather important steps.----------------------------------

7. Now with the "rel" group selected go to the "Group Insert Fx" and on the "Send Levels" select Modulation and add a modulator "midi cc". For the first number put in "11". I left the other numbers as they were set at (0). (With out this step the reverb "rel" tails wont be controled by cc11 like the rest of the samples)

8. While your still there add another modulater, "Velocity". You shouldn't have to make any other adjustments to this. (Without this step the reverb "rel" samples won't follow your velocity input)

9. This step is optional but can be important depending on the situation. Select all the groups that are "on" groups and scroll down to the bottom of K2 to the "Volume Envelope". If you don't see it then left click on "modulation". The very last "knob" here says "Release". I find that adjusting this can make a difference and the best seting on it can vary depending on the situation.

Another thing I found, is that makeing adjustments to the "Send Levels" and/or the "Return" in the reverb can also make a difference. It's a matter of experimenting with your situation.

Also I should mention that I use this as a "Key Switch" instrument and I only use the reverb "rel" tails when the regular Gold "rel" tails are adversely affected by cc11. To make Key-Switched instruments check out KevinKaui's tutorial on making "Key Switches".

End of Edit:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course the way this works is that it substitues the Reverb for the Release Tails and gives it a smoother and even more natural sound (at least I think so) especialy if your useing cc11 or cc7 like I do. Actualy it seemed to sound smoother all the way around. It also frees you from haveing to add reverb to a library that already has a lot of pretty darn good natural reverb.

Something else I should mention is that this realy works best if you have already selected cc7 as the main Volume in the "options" menu. From there then just use cc11 as your main volume controler. If you instead use cc7 as your main volume controler then that basicly negates some of the real advantages of having the reverb replaceing the "rel" samples.

T. S.

ToddK
07-09-2005, 02:35 AM
For me, the whole point of Gold IS the release samples.

Cant understand turning them down, or off. :confused:

This is a bit like buying Waves IR reverb, opening the plugin, and then
turning down that pesky reverb.

Huh? :confused:




TK

rJames
07-09-2005, 09:19 AM
For me, the whole point of Gold IS the release samples.

Cant understand turning them down, or off. :confused:

This is a bit like buying Waves IR reverb, opening the plugin, and then
turning down that pesky reverb.

Huh? :confused:
TK

I think that when you want to use the instruments in a more intimate setting, it would be nice not to have big concert hall reverb on them.

But I'm with you. Its an orchestra that sounds great as is. I haven't played with the release trails.

I have had trouble caused by them. If you are at the end of a phrase but need to play the same instrument in the next measure, sometimes using cc11 can get in the way. I like to bring down the volume near the end of a phrase, like the player is running out of air or slowing the bow stroke.

In order to play the next note at full volume, sometimes I have to pull up the release trail to full volume. Very unnatural. It would be great if the release trail didn't respond to cc11 after the initial setting; like real room reverb.

I also think it would be sonically incorrect to have the main note have its surrounding reverb but then cut quickly to a different reverb.

T. S.
07-10-2005, 06:19 PM
Hi Toddk and rJames,

I'm sorry guys, in my exuberance to pass on this simple little idea I failed to mention a few other particulars. First of all please don't get the idea that I'm putting Gold down in any way, includeing the "rel" samples. Gold is the best library I have so far.

Also I didn't mention that I'm useing this as a Key-Switch instrument so that I can switch to the reverb "rel" tail only when it works better than useing the regular "rel" tail. Here again, the only reason for useing the reverb "rel" tails is when there is some rather exagerated volume (cc11) going on between notes and it adversely affects the regular "rel" samples. rJames made light of some of the possible situations.

Another thing is I forgot to put in a couple of other rather important steps to do this properly. I'm going to try edit them in but if I can't I will add another posting here.

T. S.

P.S. TK, I know we had a slight disagreement over at NS and I don't know if you went back to that thread or not and saw that I appologized to you. If not then please accept my appology now. :)

T. S.
07-12-2005, 06:27 PM
I came up with another adjustment that needs to be made with the velocities and I made another "edit".

I know many of you if not most of you think that dealing with the "rel" samples is a little bizzare. The only reason I posted this is that I've read so many threads talking about the "sucking" sound or the "abruptness" of the "rel" samples. At this point without a better alterative this works for me.

If any of you are trying this and haveing problems feel free to "PM" me. I'll try to help in any way I can.

T. S.