Mixing, EQ, mastering, and such.

[TimothyP]

Greetings, EWQL users!

I need help. I am a composer, but I am very unskilled when it comes to mixing, eq, mastering and the like.

My Problem

I compose orchestral pieces. As I listen to them in Cubase, they sound great. When I export to audio, they suddenly sound like amateur, unfinished, muddy sound files. What I want to hear is a sweet professional recording, the way it sounded before export. The problem is, I'm not very skilled in mixing and mastering - I studied composition. My classical training did not include audio production.

My Request

I know there are a lot of pros and experts around here. Is there anyone who can link me to a tutorial including generally failsafe steps for taking a midi project, converting to audio, EQing, and anything else required to make the final product sound both loud and great? By loud, I mean, CD volume levels. My audio files come out so quiet.

If I compose 100 great pieces that all sound like butt, I won't be getting anywhere. Please help this stunted composer make good use of his studio.

Relevant Information

Samples: EWQLSO Gold XP
Sequencer: Cubase SL3
Style: Full orchestra

---Timothy

[Oyster Boy]

Hi timothy,

im in the same boat as you im afraid. When i convert to audio and then burn to CD im never ever satisfied with the results. On my speakers it sounds great but when played back on various CD players it always sounds dull and a bit quiet.
My speakers are Mission Pro's and im using gold xp, cubase 2.

If i figure anything out ill let you know.

Lee.

[Ranger]

this wil help
http://www.steinbergcanada.com/products/cubase/cubase_dvd.html

[A.Leung]

A rather LARGE subject that cant really even be completely covered by a small mountain of books but heres the basics:

When your listening to your music coming out of your speakers your also hearing the ROOM. The idea is to get your room 'tuned' in such a way that instead of listening to the ROOM your hearing your music instead. To do this there are LOTS of good books out there. ITs a long involved process but after you get your room treated your on your way to better sound and more consistent sound from set-up to set-up from room to room (friends room - your room - your car, etc.)

And that's just part of the issue (i.e. getting your room treated and sounding good) There's your equipment, speakers, etc. your ears of course!, and other aspects) Learning and understanding room acoustics is an ongoing learning experience that continues throughout your musical career. Even the experts cant always agree on things (like wether the REAR of the room should be treated with ABSORPTION or DIFFUSION - I prefer a good combination of both!)

Heres a good book with some great basics!

http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Design-Studio-Mitch-Gallagher/dp/159863285X

Best of luck and remember "Knowledge is power!"

[pietro7050@verizon.net]

This works and I've heard it from a few different people so its not just me.
Listen to the mix outside of the room. Then come back in and make adjustments. It helps.

Also, after finishing the piece wait a week before mixing.

A lot is lost from generation to generation of sound, especially high end and gain, <also low end clarity> so try making your mixes a little "hotter" than you usually do.

Hope that helps a little.

Good luck!

[Jeff Hayat]

A rather LARGE subject that cant really even be completely covered by a small mountain of books...

+1

Learning the art of mixing takes alot of time - YEARS - and patience. Don't expect to "mix like a pro" within several months.


As I listen to them in Cubase, they sound great. When I export to audio, they suddenly sound like amateur, unfinished, muddy sound files. What I want to hear is a sweet professional recording, the way it sounded before export.

Are you saying the mixes sound worse then in Cubase when you listen to them elsewhere, or do the mixes sound worse then in Cubase when you listen to them on your DAW?

[nickysnd]

As I listen to them in Cubase, they sound great. When I export to audio, they suddenly sound like amateur, unfinished, muddy sound files.
That doesn't make any sense to me. The bounce to audio should be of the same quality as the MIDI performance. Unless... this might be a wiring problem, either digital or hardware. Or a converter problem. Are you using Sunflower or other virtual router? What's your soundcard? Do you use external instruments? Did you try to bounce to disk one track/instrument at a time, and then close your VIs and have an exclusively audio mix?

I think the best you should do would be to get a sound engineer into your studio and let him sort out your actual problem. Shouldn't take more than one hour. It smells to me like it is a very simple yet very well hidden one. I'm pretty sure what you have here is a set-up problem, I don't think you should leave it unsolved until you learn more about audio mixing. It sounds pretty urgent to me.

[Michael Allen]

you say they sound different after exporting to audio and i have to assume you mean in the same room on the same rig so how are you exporting your files from cubase? When you export audio what do you do. Try File / export / audio mixdown . then lets say you are exporting a wave. make sure in the channels section that they are stereo interleaved. Let the resolution match your project (24bit, 32bit) Sample rate the same as your project. and make outputs Out (stereo).

Now when you do that does the wave you just made sound different to what you were listening to in Cubase?

[paulwr]

This works and I've heard it from a few different people so its not just me.
Listen to the mix outside of the room. Then come back in and make adjustments. It helps.



Interesting you should bring that up. I do that. It is a great way to be sure the FOCUS of your mix is happening. Certainly not the main mixing method to be relying on, but it can be a helpful tool.

-Paul

[StrangeCat]

yea no one is really helping you so I am game^_-
in Cubase the midi tracks sound fantastic? (that's amazing) Because with out proper convolutions on different instruments I think sounds like#$%$#
Anywayz.
you have your tracks you have used mod wheel to create awesome emotional instruments following your Dynamics. YOu have used Tempo varations so the piece sounds realistic.

and now you need to get the baby to audio. sure yea let's do that.
let's just move the pointers over the whole piece then highlight one track like say a bright timbre...how about picolo? we'll bounce that down. Bounce it down to 24 bit add to the pool and to it's own track.
there we go a wave file of the picolo track.

after you have bounced everything down were going to do this. Were going to create:
Buss for strings
Buss for winds
Buss for Brass
and yea buss for percussion
were going to use different convolutions for each. (this pretty technical blabber about IR's and reflections and diffusion and tons of stuff.(have you studied your reverbs the hall sound where instruments sound farther back or more upfront where sound bounces?)

so we'll skip making it sound Amazing and go with making sound decent.

just create one buss for one convolution large hall or something.

then pop in a cd orchestral cd close to what your doing here and start getting that sound!

Compression? this is the orchestra leave damn dynamics alone^_-

add limiter and wow Loud! also you know loud your loudest part of the music should be your greatest dynamic FFF or whatever then PPP for the quitest using tons of dynamics, swells, and all that you can create a loud large piece that seems bigger then it is.
never go above 0db either leave it alone give yourself some head room let the Reverbs have some room and let the limiter do it's job.

That should give you basic idea. It can get deeper when we decide to use eq. But really most of what you do is way before you bounce infact you can just add the outs to reverbs and bounce it all down as it sounds(quad core, 8 gigs of ram, or pc farm applys)

[StrangeCat]

sorry man I forgot some info to help you more. (I think you should buy something like Midi Orchestra version 3 book or something)

when using Large hall convolution you want to only be mixing the wet signle, make sure dry is not there make it 0 and wet is 100 percent. then with the send you will be mxing the reverb.

Do you have Altiverb?

what's your sound card what kind of AD converters, where are you going to be mixing, what's your monitor placement, how close are they to walls, how do you have them placed, are you in the center of there position are the tweeters level with your ears?

How much reflection are you getting in that room , is the bass coming through ok?
do your monitors have a switch to let you compensate for the room reflections?

Accoustics are more important then ton of out board gear or anything else, your going to be mixing her you make anything sound fantastic with right accoustics!

[pietro7050@verizon.net]

Interesting you should bring that up. I do that. It is a great way to be sure the FOCUS of your mix is happening. Certainly not the main mixing method to be relying on, but it can be a helpful tool.

-Paul

Paul,
I know its just another tool to add to the box, but it helps a great deal. If you have any other good "tricks" let me know. I'm always looking.