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View Full Version : FIREFACE 800 OR 828 MK3


LTMUSIC
04-17-2008, 03:25 AM
Hi

i am thinking to buy a new sound card for pc (xp64 or vista 64) and cubase 4.1.

Can anyone help me decide between RME FIREFACE 800 or MOTU 828 MK3

persentio
04-17-2008, 05:49 AM
I believe most people here will tell you to go for the FireFace 800.

Thomas Regin
04-17-2008, 06:44 AM
Can anyone help me decide between RME FIREFACE 800 or MOTU 828 MK3

That's like having to choose between a Porsche 911 and a Trabant!

FireFace 800 is the soundcard for professional music production in the same category as Digi 002/003 etc.

Thomas.

LTMUSIC
04-17-2008, 07:08 AM
Digidesign 003 ?
could this be a good choice ?(considering always the 64 bit vista or xp drivers)

thanks

paulifra
04-17-2008, 08:13 AM
Fireface 800

chippy
04-18-2008, 09:46 AM
I use a 002.
How does the fireface sound compared to the 002. better/ worse?

Aetius33
04-20-2008, 02:50 PM
I need to buy an Audio interface soon...like...within a couple weeks and I also need X64 vista drivers

RME has that covered and it appears MOTU does also...

BUT the 828 MK3 is hundreds cheaper

Can anybody explain in a nusthell what makes RME the better choice?



I mostly do East West Plugins and Sequencing in FL Studio (soon possibly SONAR 7 because of x64 possibilities) And only record vocals and guitar every once in a while...

sooo....should I stick with an internal Soundcard for the sake of saving on Latency? And record vocals/guitars using Firewire Audio Interfaces with a different system?

DW

Jesse Searls
04-20-2008, 05:58 PM
Fireface fo'sho'. Although I love MOTU products and they're very compatible and reliable. I know some game composers use MOTU, Jesper Kyd and Tom Salta for instance. I think Salta uses the more advanced MOTU 2408 MkIII, last I read.

RME just has a more advanced processing unit, and a bunch of In Outs, although pros use MOTUs also, so if you buy an advanced unit of either brand that fits your compatibility needs I don't think you could go wrong.

Jess

paulwr
04-20-2008, 06:18 PM
I need to buy an Audio interface soon...like...within a couple weeks and I also need X64 vista drivers

RME has that covered and it appears MOTU does also...

BUT the 828 MK3 is hundreds cheaper

Can anybody explain in a nusthell what makes RME the better choice?



I mostly do East West Plugins and Sequencing in FL Studio (soon possibly SONAR 7 because of x64 possibilities) And only record vocals and guitar every once in a while...

sooo....should I stick with an internal Soundcard for the sake of saving on Latency? And record vocals/guitars using Firewire Audio Interfaces with a different system?

DW

The fireface has 4 channels of pretty good mic preamps, and a channel for instrument with an overdrive feature. It's the good mic pre's that may ultimately save you money in the long run, depending on your needs.

Yes, just a tad more latency with the FF800 due to firewire, over a audio pci card. I use my rme 9652 cards to receive signal from the slaves, and then port the stereo out main buss up to my Fireface 800 that I use stand alone for shooting signal to the monitors. When I need to go analog in, I either continue in stand alone with the FF800 and shoot lightpipe to the 9652 card, or I choose the FF800 as the ASIO audio device in Cubase.

-Paul

ewkarl7777
04-20-2008, 07:31 PM
I read posts like this because I'm still trying to decide what type of card/interface to get given that I do NO external recording (and I guarantee I never will).

LTMUSIC didn't mention how much, if any, recording he does. Aetius33 said he only records "vocals and guitar once and a while."

Yet people are recommending a $1500+ audio interface? What would people recommend if they said they do *lots* of recording?

I'm not complaining, I'm asking for help understanding this. It just seems like no matter how the poster describes their needs, the same cards/interfaces are recommended. Shouldn't there be one set of recommendations for recording and a different one for sample library only use?

thanks

paulwr
04-20-2008, 10:08 PM
I read posts like this because I'm still trying to decide what type of card/interface to get given that I do NO external recording (and I guarantee I never will).

LTMUSIC didn't mention how much, if any, recording he does. Aetius33 said he only records "vocals and guitar once and a while."

Yet people are recommending a $1500+ audio interface? What would people recommend if they said they do *lots* of recording?

I'm not complaining, I'm asking for help understanding this. It just seems like no matter how the poster describes their needs, the same cards/interfaces are recommended. Shouldn't there be one set of recommendations for recording and a different one for sample library only use?

thanks

Both of those guys ask specifically about the ff800 or the motu unit, I guess that's why the feedback is primarily about those interfaces.

For cheap yet high quality, if you just need to drive monitors, I've seen lot's of positive reports on the emu 1212m. And then you even have lightpipe for down the road if you get a slave pc or want to hook up to a digital mixer. $149 is just unbeatable for that sort of capability. But you can't use it with Gigastudio, though. The drivers just don't support it.

-Paul

Nick Batzdorf
04-20-2008, 10:53 PM
RME's interfaces sound very good, but as far as I know nobody's even heard the 828 Mk 3 yet. It has onboard effects and processors and now two lightpipe I/Os as well as onboard mixing, so the features are close (RME has a built-in mixer but no FX). The MOTU now has jitter reduction when it slaves to external clock, which the RME has as well. I don't know if the MOTU has a loopback mode, meaning that it can route the output of one program into the ins of another one - useful if you're running stand-alone PLAYs, etc. The RME does, although it takes the place of lightpipe ins.

Unless it's snuck out the door, I'd wait to see what the MOTU sounds like before making a judgement. This isn't the 828 Mk 2, it's the new one just introduced after NAMM. For all we know they've bettered the RME's sound, which after all is a few years old now.

Nick Batzdorf
04-20-2008, 11:01 PM
This is the blurb from the May Virtual Instruments mag:

In addition to an onboard digital mixer with built-in effects (reverb, parametric EQ, compression/limiting), the 828MK3 FireWire interface features a total of 28 inputs and 30 outputs in a 1U box: eight balanced 24-bit analog I/Os, two XLR main outs, and two two preamp inputs operate at up to 192kHz, and two 8-channel ADAT I/Os work at up to 96kHz. Other features include a DSP-driven phase lock engine for low jitter, digitally controlled analog input trim, and a new V-Limit hardware limiter. The unit works on Windows XP/Vista and Mac, and it comes with MOTU’s AudioDesk audio recording/editing software for Mac.

A.Leung
04-21-2008, 12:21 AM
This is the blurb from the May Virtual Instruments mag:

In addition to an onboard digital mixer with built-in effects (reverb, parametric EQ, compression/limiting), the 828MK3 FireWire interface features a total of 28 inputs and 30 outputs in a 1U box: eight balanced 24-bit analog I/Os, two XLR main outs, and two two preamp inputs operate at up to 192kHz, and two 8-channel ADAT I/Os work at up to 96kHz. Other features include a DSP-driven phase lock engine for low jitter, digitally controlled analog input trim, and a new V-Limit hardware limiter. The unit works on Windows XP/Vista and Mac, and it comes with MOTUís AudioDesk audio recording/editing software for Mac.

seems a little overkill for most of the posters on this particular thread.

Just my 2 cents worth.

LTMUSIC
04-21-2008, 03:03 AM
Yes except midi,i would like to record acoustic instruments,vocals and electric guitar.
And another question:is the FW latency a problem?
If it's a problem i could buy a pci express card(like RME MULTIFACE 2) with multiple inputs and outputs and a mic preamp

paulifra
04-21-2008, 05:07 AM
I am using the fireface 800. However i did not connect the FF800 to any onboard firewire connection.

The reason i did not is if you do it will mostly share his irq with an other component on your system.

If you buy a special Firewire card for your system for connecting the FF800, you will force the system to assign a new system irq to the new firewire card, in this way you will have the full bandwith available without sharing the FF800 firewire card Irq with an other component in your system.

I uses the Belkin firewire 800 card with three ports in an pci_x slot. My system reserved irq 53 in my windows xp64 bits system only for this card ( connected to the FF800 ). The card Belkin firewire 800 is also a 64 bits card.


Apart from this a have a second firewire 64 bits card in my system 400 bits, also on a reserved irq, not shared with any other system part where i connect a Digital Video Camera. Here i used the Pyro pci 64 bits card.

I do have external esata lacie Two big harddisk drives so i do not use this method, but on both firewire cards i could also connect Firewire External Harddrives.

An other very nice feature of the FF800 is you can use diifents user settings like : all channels setting Analog 1-8, spdif, adat 1 and adat 2 : Only Analog 1-8 : Analog 1-8 and spdif : Analog, and spdif and Adat 1.

So in this way you can limit needed reserved bandwith if you do not use all channels at the same time by closing certain connection you do not intend to use.

vanillawafer
04-21-2008, 06:47 PM
Would people here go for the FF800 if they were only connecting a couple keyboards and not doing any vocals? I have a FireStudio, but I'm so fed up with the FireStudio drivers that I'm looking hard at the FF800, but I'm not sure about the price if I'm only going to user a couple external keyboards for the connections and mainly use VSTi's

ewkarl7777
04-21-2008, 07:25 PM
Paulwr - Thanks for the recommendation. I've also heard good things about EMU converters.

Vanillawafer - See Paul's response to my question (above).

Everyone else - Sorry for the OT post. I will now shut up and you can go back to talking about audio interfaces that cost more than my car. ;)

vanillawafer
04-21-2008, 07:31 PM
Vanillawafer - See Paul's response to my question (above).


All he says is that he connects his FF800 to a PCI ADAT card so that he doesn't go through firewire. He didn't mention if he uses the Pre's.

I guess my question is should we still consider this card if we aren't doing a lot of vocal work?

paulwr
04-21-2008, 09:04 PM
All he says is that he connects his FF800 to a PCI ADAT card so that he doesn't go through firewire. He didn't mention if he uses the Pre's.

I guess my question is should we still consider this card if we aren't doing a lot of vocal work?

If you don't need high quality mic preamps, you broaden your choices and lower the cost quite a bit.

In this thread I mentioned the e-mu 1212m being a good basic high quality card for very little money. $149. Reports have been all positive from actual users that I have seen, anyway. Check them out on their website. Even has adat lightpipe if you should get a digital board or run a slave computer. Just doesn't have drivers for Gigastudio if you should need that. Then you probably start looking a the line from Frontier and others.

-Paul

Aetius33
04-22-2008, 09:07 PM
Sorry...I can't let this thread die...I need answers

I contacted sweetwater cuz I'm going to be buying speakers from them and this was my last message



""""http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=13086&page=2


This is the message board for the VSTi plugins I frequently use. There is
alot of knowledge/opinions bouncing around. Basically it comes down to...I
want a FIREWIRE Audio Interface...Like MOTU 828 mk3 or the 8pre....But I
don't want to have a lot of extra Latency. Since I use so many
plugins.

My main recording software is Way below par. I was using mics directly
connected to an Audigy 2 Zs platinum and using Sound Forge 8 to work with
the raw audio.

I know alot of my setup is below standard and thats the main reason I'm
buying better. But this latency thing is really making me think twice about
weather I want Firewire instead of internal PCI.

Ultimately if the Firewire interface can run FL Studio 8 and Sonar 7 with
very little latency...And record vocals and guitar like I want...I'd get it
in a heartbeat

DW"""""


And this was the Reply from Sweetwater (I've been in contact for a while now)



""""Well, selling and using this gear everyday, I have not seen any of my clients
have problems recording with a PCI system. But, if you want to go Firewire,
take a look at the RME Fireface800 and Fireface400. Their converters rock and
the whole unit is solid. Let me know any questions on them!

Patrick"""""

So...kinda the same info I'm getting here...

I know External Interfaces will work fine for the recording I want to do...and that PCI works great for VST plugins and low latency

BUT!!!!

If somebody can just answer me this straight up....

Will an EXTERNAL (Firewire) AUDIO INTERFACE such as the RME Fireface 400 OR the MOTU 828 MK3 be able to work with my East West Plugins standalone or through SONAR 7 or FL Studio 8 WITHOUT adding a ton of extra latency???

vanillawafer
04-23-2008, 07:39 AM
Will an EXTERNAL (Firewire) AUDIO INTERFACE such as the RME Fireface 400 OR the MOTU 828 MK3 be able to work with my East West Plugins standalone or through SONAR 7 or FL Studio 8 WITHOUT adding a ton of extra latency???

Probably, but your computer specs play a role in this too. What kind of computer are you using?

Aetius33
04-23-2008, 08:42 PM
My system (will arrive tomorrow according to the shipment tracking) :)

is....

EVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 780i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz

(1) Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000 RPM SATA (OS DRIVE)

(4) Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB 7200 RPM SATA (SAMPLE DRIVES)

G.SKILL 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000

OCZ GameXStream SLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply

Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Ultimate SP1


As soon as I decide what Audio Interface to get I'm getting speakers also

(2) ADAM A7

(1) M-Audio BX10s

And I've already read up on drivers for everything...More than once...including a new MIDI Controller and my programs (FL studio 8 and SONAR 7)

DW

vanillawafer
04-23-2008, 08:54 PM
My system (will arrive tomorrow according to the shipment tracking) :)

is....

EVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 780i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz

(1) Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000 RPM SATA (OS DRIVE)

(4) Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB 7200 RPM SATA (SAMPLE DRIVES)

G.SKILL 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000

OCZ GameXStream SLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply

Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Ultimate SP1


As soon as I decide what Audio Interface to get I'm getting speakers also

(2) ADAM A7

(1) M-Audio BX10s

And I've already read up on drivers for everything...More than once...including a new MIDI Controller and my programs (FL studio 8 and SONAR 7)

DW

Yes, you will be able to run any of the EastWest stuff with that system and either of those audio interfaces.

I just got back from Guitar Center and picked up a RME FireFace 800 and a Presonus Central Station. I've been using a Presonus FireStudio for 1 year and I can't take it anymore, the FireStudio is CRAP, the Drivers are HORRIBLE and support is really bad. I've heard nothing but great stuff about RME so it was time to take the plunge.

Aetius33
04-23-2008, 09:22 PM
Cool about the RME 800...I can't bring myself to justify spending that much yet on the 800

the mk3 is more realistic to me and my wallet...


Anybody else wanna +1 what VanillaWafer says about the setup/audio interfaces?

DW

vanillawafer
04-24-2008, 12:16 AM
Well, all I can say is it's now 1:10 AM and I'm off to bed, but before I hit the sack I've been playing all night and I'm amazed at how much better the FireFace sounds when compared to the FireStudio. It's like someone lifted a veil from over my speakers. The D/A conversion is top notch. It's still early, but I really think I'm going to love this interface.

Good luck to ya Aetius33 and I hope you find the right interface for you. I will say one thing, I don't think you can go wrong with the FireFace, but I don't know much about the MOTU since it's new. Keep in mind that since the MOTU is new there will be potential for some issues.

White Noise 2
04-24-2008, 09:37 AM
I use a Fireface 800 and it's rock solid and sounds great. RME are very good with the drivers too so you should be covered.

rcprod@eastlink.ca
10-16-2008, 12:03 PM
After reading Vanillawafer's response I thought I would chime in as well.

I owned a Presonus Firestudio for 10 months and finally had to give up the battle. The drivers were terrible with constant problems of audio stopping for no apparent reason. Recording beyond 48 khz was not possible due to crackling noises in the audio.

I also own a Presonus Firepod which works great and I keep it as a backup. (doesn't have all of the monitoring options I require for everyday use.)

Anyway, I bought the RME Fireface 800 and Presonus Central Station with remote and am very happy with this setup running under XP X64.

I considered something from MOTU (which may be great but I have never tried one) but decided not to since their company seems to have more experience with Macs. I also figured that since the Fireface has been around for awhile any bugs should already be worked out.

Cheers!