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davec1
04-25-2008, 10:15 AM
has anybody dealt with them recently (like in the last month or so?) I contacted them, they seemed very helpful, but then my second email wasn't answered so I had to write a third (apparently they had mail-server problems) I replied to their answer and haven't heard from then since....

I'm curious because they told me they were going to implement the new quadcore cpu's in their systems by the end of the week (2 weeks ago), but I don't see it anywhere on their page...they also mentioned working on 16MB RAM support systems for their turnkey range...I've been so far holding back from getting a new system because that sounded very promising, but I'm starting to wonder. (I got badly burnt once with trying to buy a music production laptop in the USA....after a while it turned out the guy had gone bankrupt but had neglected to tell his customers and happily took on new customers, taking their money...)

Anybody have any news on them?

Jonathan Kranz
04-25-2008, 10:35 AM
We deal with them regularly and they usually respond pretty quick, are you using a free email service? Maybe its going in Spam. You could call them up to, Mark has always been a pleasure to deal with.

-Jonathan

A.Leung
04-25-2008, 10:41 AM
They r very reputable and definitely NOT a 'fly by night' company. You must be experiencing a breakdown in communication along the way somewhere.

paulwr
04-25-2008, 09:45 PM
I've purchased 3 computers for my computer farm from these guys. Best customer service ever by for from any music company or really any company I've dealt with. They service many many of the top Hollywood composer's studio setups. Don't give up; What they can teach you is golden about music computer studios and beyond.

-Paul

stmain
04-25-2008, 10:33 PM
I totally concur; I just bought a new system from them in January. They listened very patiently to my needs, explained everything thoroughly (you know that hint of impatience you often hear with audio/computer dealers? Not ONCE did I hear that from these guys), kept me up to date on the progress of the system, installed ALL my sample libraries (and I don't think they charged me for that), and AFTER it all arrived here, they spent at least 3 total hours, over multiple phone calls, helping me through the setup and breaking-in process. Actually, even that was more my fault than theirs, since they also made their own example/templates on my system so I could see how things worked.

I think they're absolutely terrific, and I did a ton of research before I called them. I'd go to them again in a heartbeat (in fact, I will be doing exactly that, later this year). Absolutely satisfactory experience in every category, for me.

Steve Main

Muziksculp
04-26-2008, 09:25 AM
I spoke to someone at Vision DAW's sales dept. around a month ago, to consult with them about adding a Vision DAW PC, I found them to be very professional, and service oriented. They also mentioned something about moving to a new location during April, which might explain the reason for your issue with the e-mail response.

I have a Vision DAW question,

I'm currently interested in adding a second computer system (to run Kontakt 3 and/or PLAY) as a stand-alone. My main computer is a Mac Pro 3.0 Ghz - 8-core w/ 8 GB of RAM.

How do the Vision DAW PCs compare to a (Mac Pro 2.8 - 8 core w/ 16 GB of RAM) ?

Since I'm more of Mac user, (I never used PCs), and I'm much more comfortable using a Mac. I'm currently trying to decide between adding a (Mac Pro 2.8- 8 core Mac) vs adding a (Vision DAW PC).

I think for my scenario, a Vision DAW PC would only make a lot of sense if it offered "substantial" performance benefits over a Mac Pro system that would cost the same, and I would also have to factor in my lack of PC experience.

Any advice, feedback, or suggestion would be very helpful.

Thanks.

davec1
04-26-2008, 11:32 AM
I wasn't trying to insinuate they weren't serious or anything, just curious if someone has heard of them in the last month or so...I checked my spam filter....I guess I'll resend....

JCL
04-26-2008, 11:36 AM
How does the Vision DAW compare to the Sweetwater Creation Station?

Andrew Sigler
04-26-2008, 04:44 PM
I just want to throw in my endorsement of PC Audiolabs. I bought a system from them nearly 3 years ago (about time for an upgrade...) and I still contact Tom Bolton regularly with questions of all kinds relating to the setup, some of them real bonehead questions! TOTALLY patient...you'd never know you were ignorant! Absolutely fantastic support and the setup has been great.

-Andy

Muziksculp
04-26-2008, 05:28 PM
Well... I'm so much more comfortable with using a Mac, that buying a PC would be only an option if it offered me a major price, and performance advantage over a Mac, but, when comparing the current turnkey PC systems from companies such as Vision DAW, or PC Audio labs, I do not find the price/performance ratio offering me a major advantage.

Please let me know if this is not the case ?

I'm almost ready to order a Mac Pro 2.8 core system, but I felt it would be a good idea to consult with other users on this forum, and better evaluate the Mac vs PC option one more time, just in case I'm over looking any important tech. issues, such as performance/price/ease of use/set-up/...etc.

Thanks

A.Leung
04-26-2008, 05:41 PM
and what IS the cost of being able to take advantage of ALL that PC only software?

Priceless?

Muziksculp
04-26-2008, 05:54 PM
Currently non of the applications I use are PC only, so that might be a good feature for the future just incase I do need to run a PC only application, but even having said that, the current Intel-Mac Pros can run PC SW via bootcamp / parallels ... . but, PC's can't run OSX only applications !

Andrew Sigler
04-26-2008, 06:46 PM
and what IS the cost of being able to take advantage of ALL that PC only software?

Priceless?

Now Allan, be nice:)

I spent between 4 and 5 k on it, and could have gotten it for less by building it myself, but I have no regrets. When I bought the system, I was a total newb in the tech department (I stress total) and would have had a hell of a time putting my own system together. Having someone custom-build a system for me was great. How is it not having Mac apps? I don't know, I don't have any! But having a direct line to what feels like a personal tech-support guy for me was worth it, certainly for the first few months.

Sorry for the diversion...good luck in your search!


-Andy

Nick Batzdorf
04-26-2008, 07:10 PM
and what IS the cost of being able to take advantage of ALL that PC only software?

Priceless?


The cost is having to deal with Windows when something goes wrong, which can be excruciatingly annoying. Having said that, the only one of mine that hasn't given me problems is the one I bought from VisionDAW.

Nick Batzdorf
04-26-2008, 07:11 PM
By the way, the only PC-only software in our world that come to mind is Giga, Sonar, and Wavelab. Everything else runs on Macs as well or Macs only.

fishermusic
04-26-2008, 08:48 PM
I've had one for a few years specifically for giga. It's been flawless for me. Prior to that I had a coyote R&D system. That too was very good.

All midi was midi over lan and all audio light pipe to the digi 192.

dubaifox
04-27-2008, 01:04 AM
I have three VisionDaw PC's and they have been an invaluable tool in my set-up.

They have provided many, many stress free hours of music composing.

They just work. Right out of the box.

A.Leung
04-27-2008, 01:36 AM
By the way, the only PC-only software in our world that come to mind is Giga, Sonar, and Wavelab. Everything else runs on Macs as well or Macs only.

your joking right? There are dozens of PC only vsts ive never been able to get run on a mac and literally hundreds of free vsts as well.

josejherring
04-27-2008, 09:22 AM
your joking right? There are dozens of PC only vsts ive never been able to get run on a mac and literally hundreds of free vsts as well.

Yes this is quite true.

The other day at KVR I dl a plug Forma 8 that's just killer. A free Formant filter that's just totally awesome. I have about a dozen or so killer freebees like

I've heard Vision Daws are just rock solid and very, very good. I don't own one preferring to build my own machines, but among the few top professional composers I know these are defiantly the preferred models.

Muziksculp
04-27-2008, 10:35 AM
I would like to know why users who run a Mac Pro as their primary machine/DAW. chose a VisionDaw instead of using additonal Mac Pro's as slave machines, since I don't find the price (VisionDaw vs Mac Pro) to be the determining factor in making that decision, some feedback on this would be very helpful.

Thanks.

admin
04-27-2008, 10:36 AM
This belongs in "Hardware"

A.Leung
04-27-2008, 11:50 AM
For reasons said above, some things are made 'platform specific'. To take advantage of both worlds you STILL need both. Giga is a PRIME example as Nick points out. Giga libraies are top notch and compliment east west quite well.

Muziksculp
04-27-2008, 01:33 PM
I have no plans to use Giga libraries/Gigastudio, so this would not be a choice factor in my evaluation of a Mac Pro vs. a VisionDaw PC.

Is there a major performance difference/advantage when comparing an Intel Mac Pro 2.8 Dual quad-core vs. an Intel 2.8 dual-quad VisionDaw PC with the same memory & HD capacity ?

josejherring
04-27-2008, 02:00 PM
I have no plans to use Giga libraries/Gigastudio, so this would not be a choice factor in my evaluation of a Mac Pro vs. a VisionDaw PC.

Is there a major performance difference/advantage when comparing an Intel Mac Pro 2.8 Dual quad-core vs. an Intel 2.8 dual-quad VisionDaw PC with the same memory & HD capacity ?

No difference. They perform about the same. You could split hairs and say one if slightly more stable or faster than the other but we'd be going back a forth for days debating over trivial minutia.

It all goes back to the same debate hashed out a million times on forums across the internet for the past 10 years. It all depends on what you prefer.



Jose

Muziksculp
04-27-2008, 08:54 PM
No difference. They perform about the same. You could split hairs and say one if slightly more stable or faster than the other but we'd be going back a forth for days debating over trivial minutia.

It all goes back to the same debate hashed out a million times on forums across the internet for the past 10 years. It all depends on what you prefer.



Jose

Thanks Jose,

Well said, I totally agree. Neither price, or performance seem to be the big factor when comparing the two systems I mentioned, so personal taste, and what feels more comfortable to use, based on previous experience, is the deciding factor.

In my case, I feel much more at home using a Mac Pro, but, as I said in a previous post, I wanted to check with other forum members just in case I was missing a very important fact, or technicality that could have changed my mind, and swayed me toward purchasing a VisionDaw PC system.

Cheers.

dubaifox
04-27-2008, 10:49 PM
For me, a huge factor was that Mac used to be EXTREMELY noisy, and you would have to spend big buck to isolate the unit.

Plus, Macs are not as easily rack mountable as the VisionDaw PC's.

A.Leung
04-27-2008, 10:55 PM
good point Dubaifox! Rackmountability is especially important to guys like us who have sooooo much crap that racking gear helps 'tidy things up'!

JustinRayMiller
04-27-2008, 11:19 PM
Muziksculp: just got with a mac. Your efficiency with a tool counts double what a tool's range of capabilities are. Do you have the downtime to sit around and learn something else when you could just be creating more? I've had a friend put together better sounding audio in FRUITYLOOPS than I did at the time with Cubase and Motu products.

dexterwheeler
04-28-2008, 08:34 AM
So on Mac computers you load EWQL stuff on a Kontakt player and on PC's you use gigastudio?

johng
04-28-2008, 10:34 AM
Kontakt 2 or 3 work on both Mac and PC. Apart from plugins, most major software works on both, (with the exceptions that Nick B noted). I don't see any reason to choose based solely on that. I have one major Mac DAW and seven slave PCs, so I can tell you I am not prejudiced, though I like the elegance of the Macs' design.

Mac desktops are quiet as anything these days. My old G5 drove me crazy and the kids are now using it in consequence of that -- new ones are very, very, quiet.

A pain to rackmount but James Newton Howard and just about every composer I come across has solved that, so not insurmountable.

Check out VisionDAW's monster 8 core DAW. With all the money you save on extra external stuff (sound cards etc.) it's actually very cost effective as a main DAW or just a main sample farm. There are all kinds of issues to consider, of course, putting all one's eggs in one basket, but the alternative of lots of PCs is also a problem at times, since one multiplies the likelihood of something going wrong.

Muziksculp
04-28-2008, 12:41 PM
Although I was leaning much more towards adding a Mac Pro 2.8 Dual-Quad core system, rather than a PC based system, to use as a stand-alone sample library player machine, I'm still researching the PC option, namely a VisionDaw PC. (2.8 Dual-Quad Core).

I consulted with VisionDaw directly via phone regarding the Mac Pro vs. their 8-core VisionDaw PC option as far as advantages of using their system.

Here are some of the points that could make a difference, and pull me towards a VisionDaw PC System, rather than a Mac Pro. System :

1) The VisionDaw (RAM) can be expanded to a maximum of 128 GB ! Mac Pro systems have a max. limit of 32 GB. This will have a considerable amount of impact when running 64-bit applications such as the new (PLAY) sample engine, and other 64-bit compatible SW.

2) Kontakt 2/3 according to VisionDaw is more efficient running on a PC than on a Mac, by around 12%.

3) It is possible to run multiple instances of Kontakt 2/3 as a stand alone on one VisionDaw PC, hence the utilization of the additional RAM installed on one PC. (without needing to use a host) via a special SW script they have developed, each stand-alone instance of Kontakt 2/3 can load upto 64 instruments, vs. only 16 per instance when used as a plug-in within DAW.

4) The VisionDaw PC is Rackmount ready, which is another benefit, although Mac Pros can be rack-mounted, but that requires some specialized accessories.

5) A VisionDaw PC can be pre-configured, and loaded with the libraries that a user has registered. Which can save the user a lot of time, and related hassle, of installing large scale sample libraries.

6) Very professional, and a First-Class technical support team, just a phone call away.

7) Highly reliable, quiet and efficient system. Used by many famous music composers.

So, something to think about before I go ahead with a Mac Pro system, the above features do make the VisionDaw PC system quite an attractive alternative to a Mac Pro system, and have made me think twice before proceeding with a Mac Pro system. Right now I feel the PC has more features from a technical/performance perspective that I was not aware of compared to when I first tried to evaluate both systems.

Cheers.

dubaifox
04-28-2008, 08:57 PM
7) Highly reliable, quiet and efficient system.

I agree with all of it, but my Mac Pro actually is quieter than my VisionDaw :)

Muziksculp
04-28-2008, 11:50 PM
Interesting ....

Can you hear your VisionDaw if you were 5 feet away from it ?

I use a Mac Pro as my main DAW machine, it is located right below my studio-desk, and I can hear nothing, it is very quiet indeed. :)

I also own a Mac G5 Quad, which is around 8 feet away from where my studio-desk is, and I can still hear it :mad:

dubaifox
04-29-2008, 04:18 AM
Can you hear your VisionDaw if you were 5 feet away from it ?

My Mac Pro and VisionDaw are of an equal distance. About three feet on my left (Mac) and Right (VisionDaw)

I can't even tell when the Mac is on. The VisionDaw, though suitably quiet for a composing/mixing environment, definitely purrs along. Not like my old G4 which growled like a Pit Bull defending a bone.

kstevege
04-29-2008, 11:03 AM
How does the Vision DAW compare to the Sweetwater Creation Station?

I heard that Creation Station is way overpriced, has utdated parts, and you do not get the smae level of technical support and expertise found in companies such as VisonDaw and Sonica Labs.

My questions is, how does Vision DAW compare to Sonica Labs? Sonica Labs just released theri new system with 8 core, motherboard that supports up to 64 gigs ram. I've heard that the Sonica Labs techinical support is A+ and they also produce top of the line DAW machines.

rainmain
04-29-2008, 12:31 PM
My questions is, how does Vision DAW compare to Sonica Labs? Sonica Labs just released theri new system with 8 core, motherboard that supports up to 64 gigs ram. I've heard that the Sonica Labs techinical support is A+ and they also produce top of the line DAW machines.

I chose Sonica over VisionDAW... but that's not to say one's better than the other, Sonica just had what I was looking for in the right price range. Sonica's 8-cores are cheaper, and even with 16 GB Ram it's more affordable - so I went with that.

I'm sure most people here will tell you that you can't go wrong with either (that was certainly my impression from talking with both of them), it's best to go to their websites and do side by side comparisons, figure out what you want to spend, and where you can get the most for that. That's what I did and I feel pretty happy with my choice.

kapallmeister
05-04-2008, 11:06 AM
/noob

Is there any point in buying a standalone Pc with more than 8 gigs of ram? Can any processer really deal with more than that?

davec1
05-09-2008, 06:38 AM
just to go back to my original post;

I've ordered a system from sonica labs now, with a q9450 2.66Ghz quad, 8 GB RAM and 3 500GB hds. I figured a server-class system was over the top for my needs, since I'm no professional and I spend way too much money on this hobby already, even though I would have liked to be able to have 16GB RAM...I hope the Gigabyte 965 motherboard that they use is up to the task.

Sonica ended up sounding better for me because they're slightly cheaper, more hd space, faster cpu, free shipping overseas and warranty services overseas.



All I have to figure out now is if I'm going to keep the core2duo laptop I used till now or if I should sell it... I got it primarily with the thought that I might use it for live performances, but it doesn't look at the moment like I'll be doing any of those anytime soon. I could keep it and fx teleport it to the other system, but then again, that's a lot of money that's just going to mostly just lie around. On the other hand, I don't know how much I'd get for it if I sold it now....

paulwr
05-09-2008, 09:57 AM
I heard that Creation Station is way overpriced, has utdated parts, and you do not get the smae level of technical support and expertise found in companies such as VisonDaw and Sonica Labs.

My questions is, how does Vision DAW compare to Sonica Labs? Sonica Labs just released theri new system with 8 core, motherboard that supports up to 64 gigs ram. I've heard that the Sonica Labs techinical support is A+ and they also produce top of the line DAW machines.

I've purchase 1 system from Sonica, 3 systems from Vision. Both build nice systems. Vision has more people working there, and are more experienced with large computer farms. I got more personal service at Vision to help me get the networking happening correctly.

-Paul

A.Leung
05-09-2008, 12:33 PM
very good advice Paul. Networking systems is a major hangup for many people. When I build systems for people its always a question they have of getting the network 'stable'.

Utilizing a company that is strong in networking and making themselves available to answer your questions is paramount.

ttalmon@aol.com
05-09-2008, 02:28 PM
Hi Allan - I tried to PM you but I guess your box is full. I just wanted to thank you for a great DAW build. Boy my East West stuff never ran so smooth before. Thnak you thank you.