How to play guitar... n' drums!

[Erik Wietzel]

Hi there,
i'm wondering is there some place there, on the web, where I could find tips to play guitar. Realistic guitar within my DAW and my MoR, that is...:) Though I know the chord orders, I'ld like to know hawo to write "real" arpegios. May be grids ?

As well as for drums : where could I find midi patterns that would be a good starting point to understand how to write improved parts (improved from my boring compositions!).
May be you could help.
Thanx!

[Jim Curits]

Can't beat YouTube for online tuition videos...;)

[MPDmike]

Arpeggios are not that difficult to write, as they are just based on the chord shapes. You can play a simple up and down pattern, or more complicated sequences of notes. I play finger style guitar, and so it is easy to think about playing a bass note with the thumb and some combination of the other 3 fingers, either playing single strings or a pair of strings. It is something natural to do when you play the guitar, but not so easy to explain here. The main thing is to ensure that the arpeggio notes are played in time with the rhythm of the piece you are writing. I'm sure there are websites out there with some basics explained with diagrams, for example here (http://www.acousticguitarworkshop.com/freebie/freebfs.htm). But I agree with Jim there are people who show such things on YouTube.

As for drums, unless you enjoy building up midi patterns from scratch, or you want to buy midi libraries of drum parts, I believe the most natural drum playing is possible using the Jamstix program. This can be adjusted to play in different styles and it will create a drum part that sounds just like a real drummer. The good thing is that it can be set up to work with the drums in MoR, so you do not need to sit there trying to puzzle out how to program the drums yourself. I think Jamstix is pretty amazing, and it can be used with other East West drum libraries you may have.

[nickysnd]

Nothing can beat the learning one can get from taking songs down.

[Erik Wietzel]

Thanx Jim and Mike. I'll check that up.
The fact is I'm not able to read "partitions", read music. So the learning curve is always... well, looks like out of reach. I can compose (you can check on my myspace page www.myspace.com/erikwietzel) but I'm loosing a lot of time doing everything by hear. But hey, this is the path I've choosen... after a few years of piano lessons as a kid (I was a baaaad interpreter n' student!).
I've tried to arp a few notes on EW guitars, but due to the position on the instrument, I guess notes can't be played on the keys without knowing what note can possibly come after another. Well dont knwo if I make myself understood on that one :p
So Nickysnd, thanx for your reply as well. I'm actually listening to drums pattern, and reproducing some of'em, but they often go way toooooo quickly to isolate and "grid" notes & instruments. I'm not that good !:o

[MPDmike]

Hi Erik, it appears from what you say that you can play on the keyboard, but that you cannot read music notation? There are musicians who never learn to read music, and can produce good songs and instrumentals, but I cannot understand why anybody would choose not to learn to read music, especially when it is so easy to learn the basics.

I wouldn't want to find my way around Paris without a good road map, and I think the notation in music is a good guide to what is happening when you are trying to find your way around the keyboard. You still need to understand about scales and how harmony works, but being able to read the notes is the first stage to doing anything, at least that is what I think.

I would encourage you just to take a little time and to understand where each note on the keyboard is in the notation, then you are on your way to reading music. Doing everything by ear may work for you, but it is more difficult to understand why some sounds work and others do not. You need to understand something about musical theory, and it is not easy unless you can read music. I taught myself to read music within a few weeks of buying my first guitar, and I am no genius, so I am sure you will find it easier than you think.

I just listened to a couple of tracks on your MySpace site. Very good and interesting pieces Erik.

[pietro7050@verizon.net]

IF YOU HAVE GUITAR QUESTIONS JUST ASK ME, I'VE BEEN PLAYING 30 YEARS. TOURED WITH ROCK BANDS AND WENT TO COLLEGE FOR CLASSICAL. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO HELP. SEND PRIVATE MESSAGE WITH SPECIFIC QUESTIONS.

[chest]

Erik

There's a VSTi that converts chords you play on your keyboard into equivalent guitar chords. So if you play a C-maj chord, you'll hear a proper equivalent guitar chord - eg it won't play a chord that's impossible on the guitar. I dabbled with one in a shop a couple of years ago; to me as a non-guitarist, it seemed quite good, and I expect there'll be an improved version now. IIRC, it only played its own samples - ie you couldn't route its chords to another VI (though I might be wrong). But it did have two or three different guitars, and a choice of playing options. It looked like you could get passable results soon after you started with it, but could do significantly better with practice.

[Erik Wietzel]

Thanks for the kind words MPDmike.
Thank you Petro and Chest for your help.
Concerning reading notes, the trouble is that I DID learn notation during musical training as a child (5 or 6 years I guess). But it didn't work, I don't know why. I always had to count "+ 2" onthe F scale, and I won't tell you about rythm ;) Years later, friends tought me basic harmony (well, how chords relate to on another that is), probably 2 or 3 times. I can't remember how it works, needles to say how to use it for orchestration. I'm partly able to recognise chords on keys, major n' minor. And this is it :o

Anyway, thanx again :)

[MPDmike]

Oh Erik, that is a tragic story! I fear that you were expected to learn notation before you were ready, and this has clouded your mind ever since. Perhaps you have a subconscious belief that notation is too difficult to learn. We are not all like Mozart, and it is easy to damage a child's perception by moving too quickly at that young age. How often do we hear people say "I am no good at this, or that subject", when it was often some early experience that pushed them away, due to fear of failure.

Don't give up my friend. You clearly have the musical ability to write music, and so you are capable of learning notation.

[pietro7050@verizon.net]

Dyslexia is also a possibility

[Erik Wietzel]

Oh Erik, that is a tragic story! I fear that you were expected to learn notation before you were ready, and this has clouded your mind ever since. Perhaps you have a subconscious belief that notation is too difficult to learn. We are not all like Mozart, and it is easy to damage a child's perception by moving too quickly at that young age. How often do we hear people say "I am no good at this, or that subject", when it was often some early experience that pushed them away, due to fear of failure.

Don't give up my friend. You clearly have the musical ability to write music, and so you are capable of learning notation.


Thanx for your encouragements :)
I pretty much forgot everything during my teenyears then move back to music as an adult.
Before getting more involved into guitar "playin", I've composed a piece this w.e. You can hear it "from" the "music" forum, of course.

[peter5992]

Hi Erik:

I listened to the music on your myspace page, and I like it. I am especially impressed if you say you cannot read notes, makes me curious how you managed to get it done in the first place. That said, a couple of points:

(1) Getting some basic musical education is never wasted - you could eg go to a local music school or college.

(2) That said, some people are not very good at reading notes in the classical style, but are still very musical and able to compose great music with help of others (I think they are called "hummers" in the film music industry). Don't let a lack of formal education intimidate you or hamper your creativity.

(3) Not really sure I understand your question - are you looking for instruction on how to play a guitar physically, or how to make a guitar sound more realistically in MIDI? If the first, again, I would look for a enthusiastic local guitar teacher - cannot be beaten in terms of interaction and enjoyment. As to the latter - I can't help you! I defer to the others on the forum.

Let me offer you some perspective. I am a conservatory of music graduate (classical guitar, about 20 years ago), and although I know a thing or two about music theory and music notation, I am a newbie to MIDI and electronic music production and that is totally confusing and horribly complicated to me. For the past several months I have been doing nothing but reading manuals, books on MIDI, browsing forums - some days I am close to crying.

We come from all walks of life - don't let a lack of knowledge or education stand in the way of what you are trying to achieve.

Take care,

Peter

[Erik Wietzel]

Hi Erik:

I listened to the music on your myspace page, and I like it. I am especially impressed if you say you cannot read notes, makes me curious how you managed to get it done in the first place. That said, a couple of points:

(1) Getting some basic musical education is never wasted - you could eg go to a local music school or college.

(2) That said, some people are not very good at reading notes in the classical style, but are still very musical and able to compose great music with help of others (I think they are called "hummers" in the film music industry). Don't let a lack of formal education intimidate you or hamper your creativity.

(3) Not really sure I understand your question - are you looking for instruction on how to play a guitar physically, or how to make a guitar sound more realistically in MIDI? If the first, again, I would look for a enthusiastic local guitar teacher - cannot be beaten in terms of interaction and enjoyment. As to the latter - I can't help you! I defer to the others on the forum.

Let me offer you some perspective. I am a conservatory of music graduate (classical guitar, about 20 years ago), and although I know a thing or two about music theory and music notation, I am a newbie to MIDI and electronic music production and that is totally confusing and horribly complicated to me. For the past several months I have been doing nothing but reading manuals, books on MIDI, browsing forums - some days I am close to crying.

We come from all walks of life - don't let a lack of knowledge or education stand in the way of what you are trying to achieve.

Take care,

Peter
Thanks Peter.
And about (3) I was talking about how to make a guitar sound more realistically in MIDI. Good luck with DAW. it's an amazing world, with its frustration at times. But when it works, whouah, it's worth the effort ! :)

[mandzguitar]

That was really cute.. I admire people who's trying to learn guitar and compose songs of their own.. Keep it up!

[audiophalanx]

FWIW: I along with any other guitar player could probably rant about how realistic/unrealistic guitar-sampler-players are, just the same as with drummmers for drums and almost any member of an orchestra about the majority of scoring you hear on tv and film. So, being a guitar player, but having experience with the other musicians and their instruments, when I introduce an instrument into a composition (that I do not play), I try to research a bit of the inst., how its played, videos from youtube, natural scales...and then take my best shot at making it sound as close as possible using the tools that I have.

Don't fret...there's a HUGE industry vying for the money of composers looking to accurately replicate various instruments from their computers...

...and how to make it sound as realistic as possible is either perform yourself, or research a live performer...then translate to the best of you and your library's ability. The MIDI programming would become more clear once you know what you're shooting for...

Not sure if that's what you were looking for as far as "how to", but I hope it helps...

cheers!
ap

[musicman2001]

Does anyone know how to make chords sound properly strummed via midi? Like up and down? I just imagine moving over the notes a few millimeters in the piano roll in the direction of up or down but am i misssing someting... it never sounds good.