PDA

View Full Version : Getting the most from RA


mkdgn
04-18-2005, 12:19 PM
I just bought RA and went through it. This is definately a serious resource! It makes me really want to do the parts I use with it justice. Sometimes that means simply making things sound good to my 21st century western ear. Other times though I'd like the performance to be close to the original style of the instrument. Any thoughts?

These are mine:
Definately listening is the most important step. If anyone has artist/title recommendations that would be great.

Other things that would help are midi files that are made using RA that show some of the basic patterns + building blocks of a style. This may be most appropriate for the percussion side of things.

Sheet music that shows the same thing. Anyone know if there are good books out there?

Checking out those alternate tunings... that should bring some pretty wild results.

More information about the instruments similar to the helpful RA pdf found on the soundsonline website.

Just knowing what role and patterns the clave plays brings you a lot closer to putting together a latin percussion groove. I imagine there are similar revelations we can apply to these instruments.

THANKS!
Mike Degen

deathadder79
04-18-2005, 04:31 PM
Agreed...

This may be a bit of a different issue, but... I would go as far as to buy a DVD tutorial that shows some basic uses of the various elements / switched programs... some typical (even if generic) parts actually being programmed / played in.. etc. ... Basically something that after an hour or two of watching will give us a good starting point and make us feel confident about using all the nuances available, even if it doesn't go through each specific one...

mkdgn
04-19-2005, 01:43 AM
Yeah a DVD would be great. To see players use those instruments would definately help.

amo
04-19-2005, 01:52 AM
As a DVD is not available at that moment, a good idea would be to go to your music store and get some good CDs to increase your culture and listen to music from countries outside of the west.... Good for the ear, good for the work with RA.....
It would I think hard to put together a DVD with all instruments and techniques.... would have been great to shoot it during recording sessions though, but I'm not sure Nick or Doug thought of it at that time....

Regards,

Amaury

Nayi
04-23-2005, 07:29 AM
One thing is releasing a DVD with video tutorials like Stylus RMX did, which basically consists on teaching you how to install and how to work with the software.
Another thing is releasing a DVD to teach you music. :)

That would be like releasing a DVD that teaches you how to compose with GOLD orchestra.

There are a lot of resources on the net about world music, instrument techniques, midi files, scales, tunnings...
You simply have to study and research to get to the bottom of things just like everything else.
I am not going to buy a vst jazz piano and expect to play jazz overnight, right? I have to research and study the basses of jazz to be able to that.

Have you heard any RA demos? They are mostly fusion demos, mixed instruments from all regions of the globe and mostly if not all are playing with an western tuning. So they are not traditional at all and yet they sound very ethnic. Why?

Because of the absolutely stunning expressiveness, detailed articulations and easy playbility of RA.

deathadder79
04-24-2005, 02:48 PM
One thing is releasing a DVD with video tutorials like Stylus RMX did, which basically consists on teaching you how to install and how to work with the software.
Another thing is releasing a DVD to teach you music. :)

Exactly... A DVD that teaches at least some basics of how to use RA would be most beneficial, at least to me... imagine if someone just gave you the VSL performance set and said "have fun" ... it would be a shame if you went on to use volume curves to do legato, when that tool does legato much more realistically itself... that's not a question of compositional knowledge, rather software knowledge...

The PDF documentation contains a lot of interesting information on the instruments themselves, but really only summaries / lists as far as the software is concerned.. it would help to see someone actually programming in parts and utilizing the various elements / patches available... doesn't have to be for every instrument, but just enough to get someone a fair idea of what's available...

Unless, of course, there's audio examples that provide this type of information?

ToddK
04-24-2005, 03:27 PM
Exactly... A DVD that teaches at least some basics of how to use RA would be most beneficial, at least to me... imagine if someone just gave you the VSL performance set and said "have fun" ... it would be a shame if you went on to use volume curves to do legato, when that tool does legato much more realistically itself... that's not a question of compositional knowledge, rather software knowledge...

The PDF documentation contains a lot of interesting information on the instruments themselves, but really only summaries / lists as far as the software is concerned.. it would help to see someone actually programming in parts and utilizing the various elements / patches available... doesn't have to be for every instrument, but just enough to get someone a fair idea of what's available...

Unless, of course, there's audio examples that provide this type of information?



There arent any surprises in RA. There are key switches for everything, wich i love.
Definatly nothing that even resembles the Performance tool for VSL.

You might want to have a modulation slider/joystick near by. But other than that,
its straight up. Volume, Pan etc etc... You have options for those CC's in the Options.

I think what is throwing people is their lack of knowledge regarding the actuall
performance of these instruments.

I dont think EW really needs an instructional demo for RA any more so than for
Platinum, Gold, or any other titles.

IMO, its relatively easy to work with RA using just keyswitches, and no CC's/ performance
tweaks.
Plus, it has the best Manual EW has ever made for any product, at least in my opinion.
TK

Nayi
04-25-2005, 07:02 AM
There arent any surprises in RA. There are key switches for everything, wich i love.
Definatly nothing that even resembles the Performance tool for VSL.

You might want to have a modulation slider/joystick near by. But other than that,
its straight up. Volume, Pan etc etc... You have options for those CC's in the Options.

I think what is throwing people is their lack of knowledge regarding the actuall
performance of these instruments.

I dont think EW really needs an instructional demo for RA any more so than for
Platinum, Gold, or any other titles.

IMO, its relatively easy to work with RA using just keyswitches, and no CC's/ performance
tweaks.
Plus, it has the best Manual EW has ever made for any product, at least in my opinion.
TK

My thoughts exactly.

mkdgn
04-27-2005, 08:40 AM
I think some additional material, dvd etc would be helpful. My original post was not implying though that EW had to do it. I was simply hoping to establish a dialog that might bring up titles of existing products (tho hey, if EW became inspired to release something that would be great).

I see the point about not expecting EW to release something just the way they shouldn't need to for EWQLSO. The difference and where there is not a parallel here is that since EWQLWO contains mainly western instruments, many are already far more familiar with them. Also many have had at least some training in theory and so can approach a symponic library with some understanding. Though if you wanted to become better as using EWQLSO authentically, sheet music, recordings, information about playing techniques and even dvds would be helpful for that as well.

Nick Phoenix
04-27-2005, 09:12 AM
It took me a solid month just to create the RA manual. A RA tutorial would be a huge undertaking and I would always feel like I was faking it, because I am no expert on the 60+ instruments in RA. The library was created by listening to music from all the world for inspiration and then listening to the artists play some characteristic music on his or her instrument. Then I chose the articulations based on that and other research.

awpmusic
04-27-2005, 09:50 AM
I suppose you have to ask - if you don't know how to play the instruments in RA - or how they should be played or used - do you need it?

Listen to lots of world music using these instruments and you should get plenty ideas.

ToddK
04-27-2005, 09:57 AM
I suppose you have to ask - if you don't know how to play the instruments in RA - or how they should be played or used - do you need it?

Listen to lots of world music using these instruments and you should get plenty ideas.


That's a great point. I was going to ask why somebody would buy it first,
and ask questions later. :)

Doesnt make much sense. :confused:

On another note;

I have a monsterous RA demo coming!!! :D I know many of these instruments
very well, especially the mid eastern and india sections.

TK

DallasComposer
04-27-2005, 11:16 AM
I think this is a very good topic. A difference between how to use the technology and how
the real instruments and musicians who play them work. I studied ethnomusicology in Japan
for several years, specifically the Koto and Shamisen before I ever played one in a sample library, so when I go to bend a note on a Koto sample I know how real Koto players do it. I think it really comes down to what you want to achieve. If you want a piece that is true to the culture, then study that music, maybe lessons from a local teacher and listen to CDís of authentic music from that culture. On the other hand if just want to add a different color to your piece, give it a hint of ethnic then again listen to CDís and trust your ears when creating parts. Another thing I find fascinating is not only the technique of playing these instruments but the musical philosophy of the different cultures, Eastern musical aesthetics are very different from western ones that is what helps me understand better, or least guide me to a somewhat western understanding of the east. I have no idea if this added anything to the topic, but wanted to share.

mkdgn
04-27-2005, 11:17 AM
Why would you buy a guitar and then take guitar lessons later? I've already made good music with it. I'd like to learn more. Shouldn't be too hard to understand.

ToddK
04-27-2005, 01:27 PM
Why would you buy a guitar and then take guitar lessons later? I've already made good music with it. I'd like to learn more. Shouldn't be too hard to understand.

You need a guitar to learn how to play the guitar.

But we've all heard guitar, and are familiar with the idioms.

Emmulating it with samples is not hard when you hear it all the time.

Why buy a Tambura if you've never even heard one?
Why buy a Bansuri if you're not even sure what it is?
TK