Ultra quick guide to making big chords

[Joza]

Ok, here is the thing. Before I've always had just a string ensemble sound, but now I got EWQLSO with possibility to use first violins, second violins, violas, cellos and double basses separately. So I want to make huge background chords with them. How should I do that? Mostly I just mean how do I divide the notes between those. I know there are endless number of different ways to do that, but I would appreciate if someone gave me one example where I could start and customise it further on. And well, I guess the same thing goes with brass section too.

(A book about orchestration would help too of course, but those are propably too specific for my needs currently..)

[A.Leung]

I know there are endless number of different ways to do that,

There really are. And therin lies the challange. It really does depend on thte application. ANd rather than shortcut yourself a good solid orchestration ground is a good foundation to stand on.

If you really dont want to get yourself into that you [could] go out and buy some scores and begin by studying them.

[francois_harel]

Hi,

There are two books that help me.

The book from Adler on orchestration. You can also buy the audio-cd which was very helpfull.

http://www.amazon.com/Study-Orchestration-Third-Samuel-Adler/dp/039397572X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223153274&sr=8-1

The second is from Paul Gilreath and was also very interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/Guide-MIDI-Orchestration-Paul-Gilreath/dp/0964670534/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223153384&sr=1-1

Even, the Adler's book show us many example of type of chord to note possibility in different kind of orchestration.

Francois, Montreal

[Joza]

Took Adlers book from library once but it didnt contain the cd so it wasnt that good. But yeah, i think there were some chord examples so maybe I should borrow it again. Also looking for some scores might be a good idea. Thanks for both of you.

[ewkarl7777]

All the suggestions you received are good, but if you're looking for a quick and dirty answer (for just the strings)...

1) Don't have as many notes in the cellos and basses as you do in the violas and violins. Also, avoid close-position chords in the lower instruments. For example, C E G Bb in the basses will sound like mud.

2) Consider overlapping the sections. For example (as part of a large C major chord), you might have the violas playing E C G, the 2nd violins playing low-G, E, C, and the 1st violins playing E (10th above middle C) G C

3) Try it and use your ear. Does it sound full and balanced? If not, tweak until you've found an approach you're happy with.

Good luck!

[V o n h ö g e n]

Took Adlers book from library once but it didnt contain the cd so it wasnt that good. But yeah, i think there were some chord examples so maybe I should borrow it again. Also looking for some scores might be a good idea. Thanks for both of you.

You really don't need the CDs from Adler's book, the examples given speak for themselves, unless you can't read notes/scores. Studying scores is probably the best way to learn about orchestration. Just take a Ravel score (for example, the wonderful "Daphnis & Chloe") and read it while listening to a recording of the same ballet. Don't forget to take notes!

I should add that, paradoxically, I've learned the most about orchestration by studying string quartets, polyphonic vocal works, and quasi-vocal masterpieces like Bach's 3-part Inventions. It made me realize that orchestration is more about the phrasing of separate voices than about building impressive large scale orchestral effects.

- Jerome Vonhögen

[peter5992]

I can really recommend the book on midi Orchestration by Paul Gilreath -- it's a good investment and reference guide even if you don't want to read it cover to cover right now.

Also you may want to search on the internet and download free midi files from the classics (those are out of copyright which makes it legal to upload / download them), eg from http://www.mfiles.co.uk/midi-files.htm. Download them into your sequencer and take a look at the score - preferably in a notation form - and you'll be able to figure out what guys like Mozart, Bach, Debussy etc did in their days - still being used in conservatories of music today. You coud make this more interesting by first trying to write out the score after listening to a CD or recording of the same score, and then compare the results - good ear training.

[Kaatza_Music]

All the suggestions you received are good, but if you're looking for a quick and dirty answer (for just the strings)...

1) Don't have as many notes in the cellos and basses as you do in the violas and violins. Also, avoid close-position chords in the lower instruments. For example, C E G Bb in the basses will sound like mud.

2) Consider overlapping the sections. For example (as part of a large C major chord), you might have the violas playing E C G, the 2nd violins playing low-G, E, C, and the 1st violins playing E (10th above middle C) G C

3) Try it and use your ear. Does it sound full and balanced? If not, tweak until you've found an approach you're happy with.

Good advice. Also think about movement within each voice. If you just have a bunch of block chords, it will not sound musical. Think about the voice leading of each instrument and each note. If you play the individual viola part all by itself, it should still sound musical. Add a few passing tones and your music will start to flow.

[lydianchromaticconcept]

Been checking out some Thomas Newman block chords lately. In certain circumstances, he's definitely got the full triad way low, i.e. in the basses and cellos. trombones too. "F" the overtone series!:D