Sibelius - buy from US to use in UK?

[chest]

Has anyone here actually bought Sibelius 5 from a US retailer and successfully installed and used it in the UK (with WXP)? - ie no problems with serial numbers, registering, etc.

[The Magic Hoof]

I don't think you'd have a problem at all. It's really just a matter of having a serial number, no matter where you're located.

What I'd do is email Sibelius beforehand and ask them, but I'm sure they'll say the same.

I'd definitely get Sibelius from somewhere in the states and import it to where you're at in the UK if it's cheaper. Shipping will be a bit, but you'll probably come out cheaper even with a high shipping price. 500 quid is quite a bit.

[peter5992]

When you crunch the numbers, don't forget about shipping fees and import duties and VAT (import duties and VAT especially may make it much more expensive).

[MPDmike]

A couple of years ago I considered buying some software from the USA, because on paper it seemed much cheaper than buying the same thing in the UK. However, when I was checking out other people's experiences on a forum I found that it was a gamble, as some buyers were being asked to pay import duties and VAT and others were not. It all seemed to depend on whether the Customs officers were aware of what was in the package.

In the end I found the best (legal) solution was to buy from a German retailer, which even after paying all taxes saved me about 20% on the cheapest advertised UK price. It pays to shop around. On the other hand I have got some big discounts simply by haggling with a retailer, and this works best if you already have a history of buying from them.

[chest]

Thanks for the info. I am aware that the import duty and VAT can add about a quarter to the US price, but, even so, and even with the drastically reduced number of dollars we currently get per pound, and with the cost of international shipping as well, it would probably still work out cheaper than buying at one of those specially inflated prices that many software companies typically want to charge UK residents.

I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has actually had (recent) success with a Sibelius-5 import into the UK, but, yes, I probably ought to check with Sibelius in the UK, anyway, just in case there is discrimination between US and UK serial numnbers.

There are US software companies that not only charge UK residents literally hundreds of pounds extra for (already expensive) software, but also make it impossible for us to register a US import. Doing that kind of thing between the various European coutries would probably be illegal, but the US suppliers can get away with it. Sadly, it's hard (for me) to see many US suppliers, taken in aggregate, as anything better than bullies using their superior strength to take as much as they can from individuals in a weak position. (And, to add insult to injury, the US govenrment occasionally uses threats to open up foreign markets to American producers, whilst shrugging off protection of the US markets as only right and proper for looking after its own people.)

Infuriatingly, even UK companies participate in taking extra profits from their fellow Brits - from major examples down to one really annoying (though small) instance that always sticks in my mind ... when I paid a tiny London-based record label about £12 each for CDs manufactured in the UK and sent just a few miles to my home, but later discovered that I could have paid far less by importing them from a US retailer (much cheaper in spite of the cost of shipment to the US and back.)

When you know how much of this ("rip off Britain") kind of thing goes on, it's very pleasing to discover that EW's pricing is very fair.

[peter5992]

I did a quick search and indeed there is a price difference - although sibelius is listed on the official site for $ 599, Amazon sells it for $ 489.99 - the lowest late I found in the UK is BP 399 which still amounts to $ 656. That is a significant difference (mind you, there's still the import duties and VAT). Manufacturers have different policies for their product pricing - they tend to try to be competitive in each market. Could well be that Sibelius sells so well in the UK, and is so strong in that market (eg widely used in all music education in UK), that they feel they don't need to discount their pricing in any way. On the flip side, if you live in the US and want to get the hardcopy manual (650 pages which I would recommend btw) then you pay $ 20 plus shipment fees - elsewhere you can a free copy from Sibelius - don't know what the idea here is really, I don't mind really, but it's just one of those things.

If you find a better rate somewhere in Europe, btw, the import duties and VAT won't be an issue - that is the good thing about the single European market, no import duties for sales between EU countries.

If you do buy it from somewhere in the US, then the import duties and VAT are oftentimes due by the carrier delivering it to your doorstep (DHL, UPS, Fedex) - they are liable for the payment of the duties and you won't get your copy unless you pay them. Well, that is at least how it worked when I lived in Holland and bought stuff online from US sellers.

[chest]

Peter5992, it's disappointing to face the reality (that you point out) that £399 is only about $656 US. Just a few months ago it would have been about $800. Or looked at the other way round, Amazon's $489.99 would have been £245, compared with the (UK cheapest you found) £399. (Importing could have added add about £70.) If I'd known that then, I may well have bought Sibelius 5 some time ago.

Incidentaly, Peter5992, I can't find a price anywhere near as low as £399 - so far, I've only found prices not far short of £500.

And, while I'm having a rant day, here's another annoyance ...

I imagine that, if someone in the US does a Google search for Sibelius 5, they'll get a lot of US retailers coming up(?) - please tell me if I'm wrong. But in the UK, I get loads of UK retailers, and hardly any US ones until a few in about the third screen, and even then without any prominent prices.

I suppose that's because Google for me in the UK is google.co.uk, although a few years ago, it used to be google.com. But now, even if I type google.com into the space at the top of the screen, it gets immediately replaced by google.co.uk.

While it might often be useful if the google searches have a local bias, I seem to be denied access to the search results that could be had in the US. Amongst other things, this seems to favour the UK retailers with their specially inflated prices. It wasn't until reading one of The Magic Hoof's posts that I realised how much cheaper Sibelius was in the US. The only way I've found so far to force the US retailers to come up in Google was to search for Sibelius-5 $499. (If all this is simply because I'm doing something wrong in the way I use Google, please tell me.)

[The Magic Hoof]

http://musical-instruments.pricegrabber.com/recording-software/m/40988150/search=sibelius%205/st=product/sv=title/


You're making me want to live in the states, but want to be employed by somewhere in the UK, simultaneously. Being pad in GBP sounds kinda nice, seeing as... ahhh you get my point =)

[peter5992]

Peter5992, it's disappointing to face the reality (that you point out) that £399 is only about $656 US. Just a few months ago it would have been about $800. Or looked at the other way round, Amazon's $489.99 would have been £245, compared with the (UK cheapest you found) £399. (Importing could have added add about £70.) If I'd known that then, I may well have bought Sibelius 5 some time ago.

Incidentaly, Peter5992, I can't find a price anywhere near as low as £399 - so far, I've only found prices not far short of £500.

And, while I'm having a rant day, here's another annoyance ...

I imagine that, if someone in the US does a Google search for Sibelius 5, they'll get a lot of US retailers coming up(?) - please tell me if I'm wrong. But in the UK, I get loads of UK retailers, and hardly any US ones until a few in about the third screen, and even then without any prominent prices.

I suppose that's because Google for me in the UK is google.co.uk, although a few years ago, it used to be google.com. But now, even if I type google.com into the space at the top of the screen, it gets immediately replaced by google.co.uk.

While it might often be useful if the google searches have a local bias, I seem to be denied access to the search results that could be had in the US. Amongst other things, this seems to favour the UK retailers with their specially inflated prices. It wasn't until reading one of The Magic Hoof's posts that I realised how much cheaper Sibelius was in the US. The only way I've found so far to force the US retailers to come up in Google was to search for Sibelius-5 $499. (If all this is simply because I'm doing something wrong in the way I use Google, please tell me.)

Yeah, I hear you - the exchange rates are something else - these are 'interesting' times. Most of my savings are in Euros, so dollar gaining strength vs. the Euro hurts me too - but on the flip side, I like to view it as the American economy slowly recovering - hopefully faster under the new administration (if all goes well - five days and counting!).

As to the UK / US retailers, I searched in http://www.google.co.uk/ (not www.google.com, that brings up US retailers, at least for me), and choose "pages from the UK", and then I get this page for the lowest price:

http://www.zoom4u.co.uk/sibelius-5-298-c.asp?gclid=CJbYs7-Y0JYCFQv7agodL04s4A

(you gotta be fast, 2 in stock left)

I do believe, btw, that when typing in "google" your browser / computer settings automatically direct you to the appropriate local version / search results.

By the way, I was informed by Sibelius (Daniel Spreadbury, he is the senior product manager and a fantastic guy, really nice and helpful) that you can buy Sibelius wherever you like, US or in Europe, but there is a Sibelius policy that you only get official support from the country where you bought the license. So, if you buy from the US, you will have to call the US help desk. Given the time difference, that could be a real pain. However, to put it in perspective, their chat page is absolutely fantastic - if I have any questions or issues I usually just go to the chat page and I get an answer from anywhere in the world (Australia, UK, US, France) - the Sibelius community is truly global. That said, you might still have a preference for local support if necessary - Sibelius is a UK product by origin and I secretly suspect that the UK help desk might be the most knowledgeable / experienced (but I have nothing to support this theory, and Sibelius does its best to offer excellent support in any jurisdiction around the world).