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View Full Version : Using U/D Bowings in EWQLSO


MitchellC
04-27-2005, 09:16 PM
I have a question about stringed instruments in EWQLSO that can alternate up/down bowings.

The program automatically alternates between up and down bowings. That's great if you want that. But often, in real music, you want another pattern, for example in 4/4 time starting on the downbeat:

D DUD DUD DUD DUD (the rhythm is quarter, eighth-eighth quarter, eighth-eighth quarter...)

All I seem to get is:

D UDU DUD UDU DUD - which is not at all what I want.

How do you professionals work around that? Can I use Kontakt to make a keyswitched set that I can control myself???

Any other workarounds?

Thanks!

Composer
04-27-2005, 10:40 PM
Hmm, this is not at all helpful, I know, but just in case there is no way to do that with EWQLSO, and if you happen to have an extra $1k lying around - with the SISS strings, the up/down bowstrokes are controlled with the mod wheel (down=down, up=up) - legato, staccato, spiccato, I believe.

And despite what some people say, I find it easy to blend SISS and EWQLSO (even though I currently only have Silver) - but maybe I have bad ears and don't notice the reverb clashing!

Stefan Podell
04-27-2005, 10:40 PM
Yes, you could use Kontakt to make such a keyswitched instrument. That would be a great one to submit to EW/QL to see if they would add it to an update, too. That way, people with only the Kompakt Instrument could use it, too.

MitchellC
04-27-2005, 11:32 PM
Thanks, Stefan,

I guess I can find out how to do that at the NI website??? Are there anyy other resources for programming in Kontakt?

Stefan Podell
04-28-2005, 05:22 AM
Well, I'm going to be getting Kontakt pretty soon. Keyswitched up/down was one of the first things I was going to do. From playing with the demo just a little, I don't think it would be too hard.

NI's website has a forum. That might be a good place to look for programming resources, but unfortunately I don't have anything to offer you at this point... :(

jphilpit
04-28-2005, 08:00 AM
If you don't need to do that controlled bowing a lot, a quick-and-dirty approach is to create some very short notes with velocity of 1 in between the audible notes that you want in the same direction. It's not pretty in the Piano Roll view but it will get the job done. (Just make sure it's a 2-way patch and not a 3-way round-robin.)

I'm not sure whether including notes outside the range of the instrument, instead of with inaudible velocity of 1, would advance the up-down pattern, but you could test whether that's another option.

If this is a regular feature you want to use often (and quickly) then using Kontakt as described above might be worth the effort and expense.

And then there's always Platinum, which contains separate Staccato up, Staccato down, Martelé up, and Martelé down articulations in this keyswitch file for the First Violins: 18V KeySwitch C0-A#0. It doesn't help for the other instruments, but that may be the section on which the subtleties of the effect will be most noticeable in ensemble playing.

John

Stefan Podell
04-28-2005, 09:39 AM
I may be incorrect, but I think the main problem with U/D and RR patches is that there's no known state at the beginning of playback. Whatever sample you left off on last time is going to lead to the next sample when you start playback again. So unless you reload the patch before playback (and start the sequence in the right place) you might get exactly the wrong bowing for every note.

Stefan Podell
04-28-2005, 09:40 AM
Holy crap, Mitchell... You're in Pleasant Hill? I'm in Martinez.

lovelysilence
04-29-2005, 02:07 AM
In addition to the bow issue, how do the users of EWQLSO feel about the machinegun-effect? Is there a way to achieve realistic repetitions of the same note?

neoTypic
04-29-2005, 02:13 AM
In addition to the bow issue, how do the users of EWQLSO feel about the machinegun-effect? Is there a way to achieve realistic repetitions of the same note?

With other libraries I've found the best way to do it is to give it a very slight pitch variant, an envelope change, and make sure it's not at the same exact velocity. Of course playing them in so they aren't over quantinized helps too.

To do it just in the Kompakt player you can try to use two different patches and alternate between them.

I'm unsure if EWQLSO has round robin patches or not.

MitchellC
04-29-2005, 08:29 AM
Holy crap, Mitchell... You're in Pleasant Hill? I'm in Martinez.

Steffan, that is amazing! Send me an email at mitchellc@fpcberkeley.org

MitchellC
04-29-2005, 08:38 AM
Thanks everyone for your ideas. Making a KS version in Kontakt was simple. There's a tutorial on the NI website and it took me about 2 minutes to set up a simple KS instrument.

Also, John's workaround is a great idea, though I still have to figure out if there's a way to determine which sample will be played first when round-robining in Kontakt. Any takers on that one??

Mitchell

neoTypic
04-29-2005, 06:58 PM
Well if you reload, it should start on the same sample every time. So if it starts U/D and you want to start D first enter a ghost note at the begining of the track:

G(host)DUDUD GUGUGU DUDU etc etc etc :p