Logic Studio 9 is here !

[rimskykorsakov]

http://images.apple.com/logicstudio/



( ... goodbye PPC .... sigh ... )


- Gerd

[rimskykorsakov]

Hmmm ... Logic 9.0 seems to be not a (full) 64bit app. ...

The focus of this new version obviously lies on the Audio section , but for handling Samples and AU's everything remains the same ... .

According to a post by Markus Fritze ( ... involved in "Mainstage" development ... ) in a german Logic forum ,
Logic's new "Flex Time Stretch" is using completely new algorithms .
( Thanks , finally Logic got rid of the pre-historic "Time machine Algorithms" .... )

[rimskykorsakov]

Ah , okay ... now I got it :

The german version will be available in September , the same time when SnowLeopard(64bit) should be out , and
that's why I was a little bit stunned to see Logic9.0 not being fully 64bit .

But now I've just saw that the english version is already available at Apple's U.S. Store , and now I understand
that L9.0 cannot be fully 64bit . ...


( Hope you enjoy me having a nice little chat with myself ....:) )

[boulifb]

No need to rush then...

The day I'll win to Loto, I would go to a ProTools system (hardware and software).

[A.Leung]

So far Logic 9 is stable. The new Audio implementaions are useful.

[A.Leung]

It's getting very close to feeling like 'Pro Tools' in the Audio realm.

[Jasper Blunk]

It's getting very close to feeling like 'Pro Tools' in the Audio realm.

And that is a good thing, right?

[A.Leung]

Depends on what you like or are used to. I prefer Pro Tools for Audio editing, Logic for MIDI.

[rimskykorsakov]

I prefer Pro Tools for Audio editing, Logic for MIDI.
Me too.

Logic for MIDI.

Allan , could you already test how well L9 interacts with PLAY ( and NI ; VSL ... ) ?

And what about the infamous "CPU Overload" messages ???

- Gerd

[geah]

So Allan would Logic 9 be a good solution for post production?

[Plus]

So far Logic 9 is stable. The new Audio implementaions are useful.

Stable with Play?

[cmarolt]

I am also very interested in finding out the Play stability (and Kontakt).

Those are the main reasons I went back to Logic 7 from Logic 8.

Fingers crossed...

Curtis

[rimskykorsakov]

Interesting :

It seems that LogicPro9 itself still works on a PowerPC (G5) and just other Apps included in the "Logic Studio 9" Bundle won't install on
PowerPC's ( ... i.e. "Mainstage" .... ).

The reason for my assumption :

In the Logic9 manual you'll find the PPC still listed as a possible "Host Node" :

http://documentation.apple.com/en/logicpro/usermanual/index.html#chapter=2%26section=21

Or is this just a fault in the manual ? I guess not ... errr , ... I hope not ....


I keep my fingers crossed .... !!!

[mjbrown]

It appears that Logic Express 9 now supports surround sound mixing and Euphonix controllers... this makes it a nice cheap alternative to PT8 which I'm using now. Hmmm, whats the difference between Logic Pro 9 and Logic Express 9? I don't care about the rest of the stuff in Logic studio.

[A.Leung]

Me too.



Allan , could you already test how well L9 interacts with PLAY ( and NI ; VSL ... ) ?

And what about the infamous "CPU Overload" messages ???

- Gerd

PLAY seems stable. K3.55 or whatever its up to by now (cant keep track) is flawless. Vsl - only have that as EXs24 wont get ensemble or any of the MIR stuff until next month. No weird CPU overload messages but those are usually system specific. I honestly haven't experienced those since i upgraded my machine.

And guitar players are gonna LOVE L9. Amp Designer is pretty cool! It has I think 25 or 30 amps, lots of cabinets to choose from, and three mics. Everything can be put together in such a way that the sound possibilities are pretty endless if your so inspired. Cool stuff...

[A.Leung]

http://images.apple.com/logicstudio/



( ... goodbye PPC .... sigh ... )


- Gerd

Aww Gerd. Its about time. Youll be so happy you said goodbye. ITs like a new lease on life buddy... Youll be blown away by the possibioities. Be kind to yourself.

You OWE it to yourself.

[A.Leung]

So Allan would Logic 9 be a good solution for post production?

Post pro Audio as in? Special Sound effects? Music editing? Foley insertion? Not quite sure where your goin. :)

Well - in GENERAL - I'd still stick with pro Tools for major studio (and some small to medium studios) just for compatibility issues.

[A.Leung]

In the Logic9 manual you'll find the PPC still listed as a possible "Host Node" :

Oh and Gerd, See post #36

http://www.logic-users-group.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1343&page=4

That brave person COULD BE you!!!

;)

[Andrew Sigler]

On a completely unrelated topic...how is it possible that Alan is approaching 4000 posts!?!?!?!?

[A.Leung]

This must be some weird alternate universe mistake of sum sort... Yikes...

cant possibly be. :eek:

[OneThrow]

I get a sense of drool about this thread. :D

And......

On a completely unrelated topic...how is it possible that Alan is approaching 4000 posts!?!?!?!?

Itchy fingers? :D .....And an intelligent and musical mind .....and a whole wealth of knowledge that he is willing to share with the whole family of this forum. So what type of member is 4000? Titanium perhaps? ;)

[A.Leung]

Or maybe Bat-Sh!t crazy? :P

[interpolate]

Careful, bats have excellent hearing.

[rimskykorsakov]

Aww Gerd. Its about time. Youll be so happy you said goodbye. ITs like a new lease on life buddy... Youll be blown away by the possibioities. Be kind to yourself.

You OWE it to yourself.

Yah yah yah I know I know I know ...:)

( ... actually , in the last two years most of the TV-stuff I did was pure live recordings or smaller Orchestral-Arrangements, so I could work absolutely flawless with my G5 . )

BUT : I herewith promise to upgrade to the Nehalem-Universe soon ...


G.

[rimskykorsakov]

Oh and Gerd, See post #36

http://www.logic-users-group.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1343&page=4

That brave person COULD BE you!!!

;)


Today I was told by a german apple reprensative that there won't be a PPC installer for Logic9 ,
although the app itself could actually run on a PPC .

G.




EDIT :

Ah okay , now it's official :

LP9 only supports Intel
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2565

[johncarter]

Dont really see the point of Logic 9 if its not 64 bit.

Seriously, people want to use their gigabiytes of RAM.... I really hope it will come in 1 or 2 months in logic "9.1"

[rimskykorsakov]

Dont really see the point of Logic 9 if its not 64 bit.

Seriously, people want to use their gigabiytes of RAM.... I really hope it will come in 1 or 2 months in logic "9.1"

Concerning Samplelibraries , you already can access all your physically RAM on your Mac (from within 32bit Logic 8/9 ),
no matter if you use EXS , PLAY , VSL , or KONTAKT3.5 .
All these different sample-engines have in common that they all found their way to grab memory from the 64-bit memory space of Mac OS X ,
instead of using the (limited) 32bit space of the host .
( Note : In Logic7 ( under OS X ) this does not work with Logic's EXS , but only with the 3rd party apps PLAY, VSL, and Kontakt3.5 . )

- Gerd

[rimskykorsakov]

PLAY seems stable. K3.55 or whatever its up to by now (cant keep track) is flawless. Vsl - only have that as EXs24 wont get ensemble or any of the MIR stuff until next month. No weird CPU overload messages but those are usually system specific. I honestly haven't experienced those since i upgraded my machine.

And guitar players are gonna LOVE L9. Amp Designer is pretty cool! It has I think 25 or 30 amps, lots of cabinets to choose from, and three mics. Everything can be put together in such a way that the sound possibilities are pretty endless if your so inspired. Cool stuff...

Ahhh , ... thanks for the feedback !!!

G.

[A.Leung]

Concerning Samplelibraries , you already can access all your physically RAM on your Mac (from within 32bit Logic 8/9 ),
no matter if you use EXS , PLAY , VSL , or KONTAKT3.5 .
All these different sample-engines have in common that they all found their way to grab memory from the 64-bit memory space of Mac OS X ,
instead of using the (limited) 32bit space of the host .
( Note : In Logic7 ( under OS X ) this does not work with Logic's EXS , but only with the 3rd party apps PLAY, VSL, and Kontakt3.5 . )

- Gerd


E X A C T L T Y. FWIW Many Mac users (depending on their software and OS) have already felt like they've been working in the 64 bit world for quite some time now.

There is quite a bit of truth to Apples claim of "64 Bit where necessary" statement.

[A.Leung]

http://images.apple.com/logicstudio/



( ... goodbye PPC .... sigh ... )


- Gerd

Perhaps...

Not.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/408647-logic-9-may-work-power-pc.html

[rimskykorsakov]

Perhaps...

Not.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/408647-logic-9-may-work-power-pc.html


Thanks Allan .

Also , I just got response on Apples support forum from a G5 (Quad) user ( named ARDENNE ):


Quote:


1.
PPC and Logic 9 works...trust me. I'm running it right now-- and I've worked on three large projects just today.

In terms of MASSIVE performance improvements; I'm a bit stumped. My G5 Quad is running at about half CPU in a plugin intensive session containing about 46 tracks (32 MIDI). Disk I/O load is also about nill. Memory is at about 75% utilization.

2.
Basically what is happening is that both apps are being installed ( LP8 + LP9) -- BUT they are sharing plist (aka preference files). This can be good and bad. For example, if you change something in LP9, that change will be manifested in LP8 as well (well, assuming that particular setting is available in LP8).

I've noticed that Audio interface preference does not change. So essentially you could run one interface in LP8 and a different one in LP9 without having to change settings. I am assuming this is because these settings are tied to Audio/Midi settings pertinent to each app.

[A.Leung]

Yes they would be tied together that way. I took an unused PPC I have today and tried running both 8 and 9 with no problems. Got a good bump in performance with 9 ( interesting)

If your succesful with 9 you won't want to go back to 8!

[MellotronGhost]

Concerning Samplelibraries , you already can access all your physically RAM on your Mac (from within 32bit Logic 8/9 ),
no matter if you use EXS , PLAY , VSL , or KONTAKT3.5 .
All these different sample-engines have in common that they all found their way to grab memory from the 64-bit memory space of Mac OS X ,
instead of using the (limited) 32bit space of the host .
( Note : In Logic7 ( under OS X ) this does not work with Logic's EXS , but only with the 3rd party apps PLAY, VSL, and Kontakt3.5 . )

- Gerd

this is only part of the truth. while those sample players can access extra RAM at the same time they also use up a certain amount of virtual memory of the host application. in case of logic it is crashing when getting close to 4GB.

[rimskykorsakov]

this is only part of the truth. while those sample players can access extra RAM at the same time they also use up a certain amount of virtual memory of the host application. in case of logic it is crashing when getting close to 4GB.


Hi , Mellotron !

Actually every PlugIn that you load into Logic uses a certain amount of Logic's RAM (32bit) space .
Some more , some less .
No matter if it is a VI or an Effect .
No matter if its one of Logic's own PlugIns ( Spacedesigner ; Sculpture ; etc. ... ) or a 3rd party PlugIn .
So , with a PlugIn that has a nasty huge footprint you could actually use the complete RAM space without loading one single sound.
Example : Try to load 20 naked Kontakt2 instances into Logic . You'll probably max out Logics 32bit RAM space.

Furthermore , an open GUI of a PlugIn grabs even more RAM of Logic's RAM space.
If you close the GUI of a PlugIn this RAM should be completeley released , but not all PlugIns actually release all
RAM that was used for their GUI .

While PlugIn developers neglected to care about the "footprint size" of their software and its GUI in former years,
we now see a new generation of PlugIns that try to reduce its footprints as much as possible.

PLAY was , as far as I now , the first Sampleplayer that cared about this .
You can load a second , a third (, etc. ... ) instance of PLAY , and the amount of RAM that PLAY grabs
from Logic's space ( nearly ) stays the same as with just one instance .
Furthermore PLAY releases all RAM that is used for its GUI , whenever you close the PLAY window/GUI ! Perfect !
As I've mentioned above : not all PlugIns behave like this. At least not yet.


KONTAKT2 and KONTAKT3.0 , for example , always grab another 200MB whenever a new instance is loaded.
With KONTAKT3.5 this has finally changed .
ALTIVERB , to name a EffectPlugIn, has also reduced its footprint with its latest release (version 6.3.1 , I think ).


A general remark:
I would never try to push the limits concerning the RAM usage of a 32bit app .
If you watch the "Activity Monitor"-app and you see that Logic is using more than 2,5GB ,
it is a good idea to start loading samples in a standalone sampleplayer outside Logic ,
because you can be sure that you will run into trouble sooner or later , depending on the particular arrangement you are working on.
You definitely need some "headroom" of free RAM space in your 32bit app and in your overall system as well.

-- -- --

I actually load all my PLAY based samplelibraries , KONTAKT based samplelibraries and VSL into standalone instances outside Logic or into PlogueBidule.
Only EXS based samples and AUDIOFILES are loaded into Logic.
The advantage :
I use Logic rather as a "mix & sequence console" . This way I can easily switch between sessions/Mixes/Songs without being forced
to load and unload all the samples ( ... my basic setup loads some 10GB of samples ).
This way Logic works 100% stable. So do PLAY and the rest of the gang.
The downside:
I cannot freeze tracks and I have to bounce everything in realtime, and sometimes my CPU ( ... Mac G5 ... ) is being challenged .




- Gerd

[MellotronGhost]

...
PLAY was , as far as I now , the first Sampleplayer that cared about this .
You can load a second , a third (, etc. ... ) instance of PLAY , and the amount of RAM that PLAY grabs
from Logic's space ( nearly ) stays the same as with just one instance .
Furthermore PLAY releases all RAM that is used for its GUI , whenever you close the PLAY window/GUI ! Perfect !
As I've mentioned above : not all PlugIns behave like this. At least not yet.


After about 10 instances of PLAY with a total of about around 80 articulations you hit the roof of what Logic can handle.
When I watch the activity monitor and the Console it also seems that each articulation also eats up a certain portion of the host's available virtual memory.


A general remark:
I would never try to push the limits concerning the RAM usage of a 32bit app .
If you watch the "Activity Monitor"-app and you see that Logic is using more than 2,5GB ,
it is a good idea to start loading samples in a standalone sampleplayer outside Logic ,
because you can be sure that you will run into trouble sooner or later , depending on the particular arrangement you are working on.
You definitely need some "headroom" of free RAM space in your 32bit app and in your overall system as well.


Right, that is more like what happens. That's why I started using standalone instances with all the hassle that it comes with :-)
I am filling usually 10-12GB of my available 14.

With Plogue Bidule, I would have to run several instances of which I don't know if you can run several copies simultaneously (Do you know?) in order to fill out 12GB...

[rimskykorsakov]

With Plogue Bidule, I would have to run several instances of which I don't know if you can run several copies simultaneously (Do you know?) in order to fill out 12GB...

Grüss Gott , and thanks for the additional input !

Actually I use PlogueBidule only in Rewire mode with Logic, especially for PLAY libraries like SD2 and MOR .

Advantage of PB in Rewire-Mode:
1. It uses nearly no CPU ( .. when hiding the PB browser window it uses some 5-7% of CPU on my G5 ... )
2. I can do offline bounces that include all PlugIns that are hosted by PB
3. I have 96 outputs in PB that I can route to invidual AUX-channels within Logic
3. I still can switch between Logic Sessions within a breeze
( ... I have a basic PB rewire template that doesn't change ... )

Downside of PB in Rewire-Mode :
1. The Rewire App runs only on one core .
Depending on the arrangement you can easily get system overloads on weaker CPU's .
2. Sometimes PB has hanging notes ( ... a bug that was announced to be fixed in its latest version ,
but actually still exists ... )

Best

- Gerd

[A.Leung]

The one core only rewire app is a real downside. This is being worked on however.

[A.Leung]

Hi , Mellotron !

Actually every PlugIn that you load into Logic uses a certain amount of Logic's RAM (32bit) space .
Some more , some less .
No matter if it is a VI or an Effect .
No matter if its one of Logic's own PlugIns ( Spacedesigner ; Sculpture ; etc. ... ) or a 3rd party PlugIn .
So , with a PlugIn that has a nasty huge footprint you could actually use the complete RAM space without loading one single sound.
Example : Try to load 20 naked Kontakt2 instances into Logic . You'll probably max out Logics 32bit RAM space.

Furthermore , an open GUI of a PlugIn grabs even more RAM of Logic's RAM space.
If you close the GUI of a PlugIn this RAM should be completeley released , but not all PlugIns actually release all
RAM that was used for their GUI .

While PlugIn developers neglected to care about the "footprint size" of their software and its GUI in former years,
we now see a new generation of PlugIns that try to reduce its footprints as much as possible.

PLAY was , as far as I now , the first Sampleplayer that cared about this .
You can load a second , a third (, etc. ... ) instance of PLAY , and the amount of RAM that PLAY grabs
from Logic's space ( nearly ) stays the same as with just one instance .
Furthermore PLAY releases all RAM that is used for its GUI , whenever you close the PLAY window/GUI ! Perfect !
As I've mentioned above : not all PlugIns behave like this. At least not yet.


KONTAKT2 and KONTAKT3.0 , for example , always grab another 200MB whenever a new instance is loaded.
With KONTAKT3.5 this has finally changed .
ALTIVERB , to name a EffectPlugIn, has also reduced its footprint with its latest release (version 6.3.1 , I think ).


A general remark:
I would never try to push the limits concerning the RAM usage of a 32bit app .
If you watch the "Activity Monitor"-app and you see that Logic is using more than 2,5GB ,
it is a good idea to start loading samples in a standalone sampleplayer outside Logic ,
because you can be sure that you will run into trouble sooner or later , depending on the particular arrangement you are working on.
You definitely need some "headroom" of free RAM space in your 32bit app and in your overall system as well.

-- -- --

I actually load all my PLAY based samplelibraries , KONTAKT based samplelibraries and VSL into standalone instances outside Logic or into PlogueBidule.
Only EXS based samples and AUDIOFILES are loaded into Logic.
The advantage :
I use Logic rather as a "mix & sequence console" . This way I can easily switch between sessions/Mixes/Songs without being forced
to load and unload all the samples ( ... my basic setup loads some 10GB of samples ).
This way Logic works 100% stable. So do PLAY and the rest of the gang.
The downside:
I cannot freeze tracks and I have to bounce everything in realtime, and sometimes my CPU ( ... Mac G5 ... ) is being challenged .




- Gerd

This summation is worth repeating (hence the full Quote)

I wojuld like to work out some real numbers though, especially where Altiverb is concerned. I'm getting mixed info from folks as to exactly HOW MUCH of reduced footprint were looking at now but I'm experiencing approx. 50%

[MichaelJM]

After reading this I was inspired to try out Plogue Bidule. I was having memory problems; granted, I don't have a very smart system. (Macbook Pro Laptop, 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB of Memory on OSX 10.4; and I have all the sounds on my internal HD, not an external, because I value convenience right now) I was pushing the limits of my memory on Logic 8, when I was loading PLAY as a plug-in within Logic. I knew that there was a 4GB limit if you use PLAY this way, but I only have 4GB, so I figured it wouldn't matter.

After figuring out Plogue Bidule in ReWire mode, I decided to try to push my computer to its limit. I'm thinking that I like this setup a lot more, because when things crash, there's less 'damage'; windows don't start disappearing on their own. :rolleyes: Logic itself uses very little resources. I'm not sure if I'm able to get better performence (but I believe you Gerd, in that you can). I'll try converting one of my bigger projects to this set up to see what happens. You're right Allan, it would be neat to see some specific numbers.

As far as Bidule being only one core- I read that there can be very little difference in performence between one and two cores but it depends on what you're doing. (I was considering adding another 2Gigs of Memory to my computer, making it 6, thereby getting rid of the dual core capability.) When using PLAY, and Bidule in ReWire mode, is it a big deal that it's only one core? My guess is probably, but I've heard stranger things.

Unfortunate that Logic 9 doesn't make this discussion unnecessary. But at least PLAY makes it easy to workaround 32bit. :)

[rimskykorsakov]

I'm getting mixed info from folks as to exactly HOW MUCH of reduced footprint were looking at now but I'm experiencing approx. 50%

When I open Logic's ( 8.0.2 / OS X 10.4.11 / PPC ) "empty" Preset , creating only one SoftwareInstrument track ,
"Activity Monitor" shows me that this naked Logic 8 session uses 135MB on my system .

Loading a single (Stereo) Altiverb Instance , "Activity Monitor" now shows 160MB for Logic with Altiverbs GUI open.
After closing Altiverbs GUI Logic's memory space decreases to 141MB .

My (current) basic Logic setup contains 10 Altiverbs which grab some 100MB of Logic's RAM space .
If I remember correctly , these ten Altiverbs used some 290MB in former versions .



G.

[rimskykorsakov]

When using PLAY, and Bidule in ReWire mode, is it a big deal that it's only one core?

Hello Michael ,

no matter which PlugIns you use within PB-rewired , it is always an advantage when all tasks can be spread over all available cores .
This way the overall performance of your system is in perfect balance.
( ... and what is true for Computer CPU's , is even more true for us humans ... the total balance of things leads to ones best performance ....
you see , there's a universal truth ....:))

But in PlogueBidules current version only one core is being bothered with all tasks in rewire-mode .
With one Core that gets totally maxed out your overall system can be brought to its knees,
although other Cores of your system are actually free and completely unused.


Best

- Gerd



P.S.:
Unfortunately I don't understand what you mean with these two sentences .....

(I was considering adding another 2Gigs of Memory to my computer, making it 6, thereby getting rid of the dual core capability.)
....
Unfortunate that Logic 9 doesn't make this discussion unnecessary. But at least PLAY makes it easy to workaround 32bit.

[A.Leung]

When I open Logic's ( 8.0.2 / OS X 10.4.11 / PPC ) "empty" Preset , creating only one SoftwareInstrument track ,
"Activity Monitor" shows me that this naked Logic 8 session uses 135MB on my system .

Loading a single (Stereo) Altiverb Instance , "Activity Monitor" now shows 160MB for Logic with Altiverbs GUI open.
After closing Altiverbs GUI Logic's memory space decreases to 141MB .

My (current) basic Logic setup contains 10 Altiverbs which grab some 100MB of Logic's RAM space .
If I remember correctly , these ten Altiverbs used some 290MB in former versions .



G.

Thats a good increase 300%. Is that going from Altiverb 5 - 6 or from 6.x.x to 6.3.3 update?

[rimskykorsakov]

Thats a good increase 300%. Is that going from Altiverb 5 - 6 or from 6.x.x to 6.3.3 update?

That's from 6.x.x to 6.3.3 !!!!!

Yeeeah , the guys in the netherlands know how to make good cheese ... :)

[MichaelJM]

Wow. That is a great improvement.


no matter which PlugIns you use within PB-rewired , it is always an advantage when all tasks can be spread over all available cores .
This way the overall performance of your system is in perfect balance.

Ah. That makes sense. :)

P.S.:
Unfortunately I don't understand what you mean with these two sentences .....

The first sentence meant only that I was considerig trading the use of both of my cores, for more memory (since I had read, incorrectly, that there's not much difference in performence). Obviously, that's very bad idea. :D (I'd put 8GB of memory in, if I could, but oddly my computer won't work with more than 6, even under Snow Leopard)

As far as the second sentance goes, um,.. I don't understand it either. ..Wait, I think I just meant, It would be nice not having to use standlone instances of Play in Logic 9, because its not 64bit yet. I was confusing conversations. :p

[rimskykorsakov]

As far as the second sentance goes, um,.. I don't understand it either. ..Wait, I think I just meant, It would be nice not having to use standlone instances of Play in Logic 9, because its not 64bit yet. I was confusing conversations. :p

Ah okay ... don't mind ...
have a nice day

Best

- gerd

[ragnarth]

Ever since I started in the recording industry I have been using Apple's Logic, well until I went through my Berklee education and since then I haven't had any desire turning back. I am now sticking with Pro Tools. Especially since version 8.0 was released!

There isn't a thing that Logic has to offer me that I can't produce with the Digidesign products. I mean, the new 'Flex Tool' and 'Audio Quantize' features are just exact copies of Pro Tools's Elastic Audio.

But hey, that just my opinion :p

[KenK]

Hi ragnarth-

What about the environment?
I'm assuming the main DAWs have some functionality along those lines, but I never hear people mention it.

I'm pretty sure I'll be leaving Logic behind next time I feel a need to upgrade my DAW.
I've been thinking Cubase, but if some program did have some type of environment I'd consider it.
I suppose bidule + Cubase would equal the Logic that I wish Apple would make.

KenK

[ragnarth]

Hi ragnarth-

What about the environment?
I'm assuming the main DAWs have some functionality along those lines, but I never hear people mention it.

I'm pretty sure I'll be leaving Logic behind next time I feel a need to upgrade my DAW.
I've been thinking Cubase, but if some program did have some type of environment I'd consider it.
I suppose bidule + Cubase would equal the Logic that I wish Apple would make.

KenK

I ain't saying that I don't like Logic, I mean Apple is my favorite application developers concerning interface and usability !

I just prefer PT...

[ragnarth]

Probably because I've used it on so many occasions and it has never failed me...

[boulifb]

Logic 9 still don't integrate Garage Band's tracks icons while they are sharing a common part.
There are still a lot of bugs in this version 9.
3 years of waiting and no difference...
Don't buy it guys.

[Phillip L.]

*COUGH*cubase*COUGH*

Logic 9 should be stable.