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View Full Version : Sorry East West, but you really like green...


Phillip L.
07-26-2009, 01:42 AM
Alright, why is it that SO Platinum Plus is $1,000!?

I'm guessing to hire the musicians to record was probably about $1,500 an hour, and they worked on it for probably a total of 15-20 hours, which would cost them about $30,000 to develop the program.

At the same time they are recieving incoming finance from Stormdrum 2, and other famous programs, so EW is not on a shortage of money...

Is it because of the fact that it is amazing quality (and it is)?
Is it the portable convenience?

If I am being rude by talking about EW's finances, tell me, and I will understand.

-Phillip L.

zareone
07-26-2009, 04:04 AM
I don't really know how much money does it cost to record an entire orchestra. But I think you're not counting other factors. Not only you have to pay the musicians, but the sound engineers, and other people involved, the hall rental, transports... But this is just the beginning. Developing a sample library isn't just recording some notes. You need a preproduction stage, when you need to study the market, analyse the costs and deciede wheter it can be factible or not to start development. After all the recording sessions have finished (and you've broke your bank account), the fun part begins. You need to edit all the samples, apply some kind of noise reduction, create presets, some scripting magic, and convert all this in a homegeneous and coherent product (sound levels, velocity response, tuning...) Also, you need some brand design, marketing, and other added costs.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some other costs of the development, but, hey I'm not a sample developer, so, what do I know? :P

I think most EWQL products have a very fair price tag, and SO Platinum is by no means an exception. It has been recorded in a world class hall, with a top notch audio engineer. It offers serveral mic sets... I don't really think it's expensive, even if it's out of my reach at this point.

Just my 2 cents!

Alright, why is it that SO Platinum Plus is $1,000!?

I'm guessing to hire the musicians to record was probably about $1,500 an hour, and they worked on it for probably a total of 15-20 hours, which would cost them about $30,000 to develop the program.

At the same time they are recieving incoming finance from Stormdrum 2, and other famous programs, so EW is not on a shortage of money...

Is it because of the fact that it is amazing quality (and it is)?
Is it the portable convenience?

If I am being rude by talking about EW's finances, tell me, and I will understand.

-Phillip L.

Jeff Hayat
07-26-2009, 04:13 AM
Alright, why is it that SO Platinum Plus is $1,000!?

I'm guessing to hire the musicians to record was probably about $1,500 an hour, and they worked on it for probably a total of 15-20 hours, which would cost them about $30,000 to develop the program.


Is that a joke? You don't really think they recorded all of that in two days, do you? I have no idea how long it took, but would not be surprised if it took two MONTHS. And then, how much time do you think they spent editing everything? Yes - I am sure EW has made their money back, and then some. So what should they do now - give it away for free?

If you are complaining about Plat costing $1,000, you have nerve. It used to cost $6,500. Consider yourself extremely lucky.

FinnArild
07-26-2009, 06:14 AM
I don't understand? What's wrong with making money? I sure want to!

Andrew Sigler
07-26-2009, 07:13 AM
They had to buy the microphone, recordophone, and hot dogs for all the musicians.

Do you have any idea how expensive hot dogs are?

ChemicalReaper
07-26-2009, 08:18 AM
When compared with some of the alternatives, $1,000 is a bargain. You can spend that much. Or, you can spend about $12,000 on other sample libraries that, frankly, sound no more realistic than SO Plat. The other option is you spend less money and get a low-quality sample library that sounds very synthy.

You think they can just get people to work for free? Do you know how expensive an orchestra is to hire? How long the EW staff spent recording, editing, etc.?

Once you add up all the costs, ask yourself truthfully. Is $1,000 too much? It isn't too much. Or, you can go and hire an orchestra to play and record your music - then you can understand which one is the better deal...

JH4music
07-26-2009, 08:43 AM
These libraries are not just a bunch of sounds hacked into a cheesy player, you are getting a lot more with these than just a bunch of recorded sounds. I have only been using EW for about 2 weeks, and I can confidently say that it is the most well thought out GUI I've ever used. The keyswitching feature is really cool, this is a huge time and headache saver for me. Add to that the ability to stream from disk, 64 bit OS support, etc. and I think these are totally worth the money.

Phillip L.
07-26-2009, 09:10 AM
Is that a joke? You don't really think they recorded all of that in two days, do you? I have no idea how long it took, but would not be surprised if it took two MONTHS. And then, how much time do you think they spent editing everything? Yes - I am sure EW has made their money back, and then some. So what should they do now - give it away for free?

If you are complaining about Plat costing $1,000, you have nerve. It used to cost $6,500. Consider yourself extremely lucky.


I'm not complaining, calm down. And no I'm saying they probably worked for 2 hours a day on it while working on other sample libraries.

Phillip L.
07-26-2009, 09:11 AM
Guys I'm not complaining, I'm just kind of astounded. I'm new to sample libraries.

Doug Rogers
07-26-2009, 09:23 AM
Phillip,

Try over $750,000 - recording an entire orchestra all day every day for two months! The cost of the concert hall, the addition of Prof. Keith O. Johnson and his truckload of equipment in another state, airfares, hotels and meals (including the players), over 9 months of editing and programming by a large team (including purchasing multiple computers), software development and OEM costs, manual, artwork, packaging, advertising and marketing costs.

You can also thank the early purchasers that paid nearly $3,000 for Platinum when it was first released, they enabled you to get it for less than one-third of the price today.

Then, of course, there is no guarantee the project will be a success, so you can add that risk also. Fortunately we selected a team that eliminated much of that gamble and it paid off.

Cheers,

- DR

KindredSpirit
07-26-2009, 01:46 PM
Aha..............the infamous artwork and packaging, now Doug about the packaging and shipping costs ha!!!

Thomas Regin
07-26-2009, 02:08 PM
'm guessing to hire the musicians to record was probably about $1,500 an hour, and they worked on it for probably a total of 15-20 hours, which would cost them about $30,000 to develop the program.

This has got to be one of the funniest posts I've seen in a long time! (No offense, Phillip L.) :D

I'm sure that if it was a simple matter of hiring an orchestra for a few hours on a Saturday afternoon and get a world-class virtual orchestra out of it, the market would be flooded by now!

Personally I think $1000 is a bargain for this library. Remember that this is a professional-line product designed to make you money in the long run.

Thomas

A.Leung
07-26-2009, 02:59 PM
Alright, why is it that SO Platinum Plus is $1,000!?

I'm guessing to hire the musicians to record was probably about $1,500 an hour, and they worked on it for probably a total of 15-20 hours, which would cost them about $30,000 to develop the program.

At the same time they are recieving incoming finance from Stormdrum 2, and other famous programs, so EW is not on a shortage of money...

Is it because of the fact that it is amazing quality (and it is)?
Is it the portable convenience?

If I am being rude by talking about EW's finances, tell me, and I will understand.

-Phillip L.

LOL. That's just batsh!t crazy talk. :p

composeralex
07-26-2009, 05:06 PM
Phillip,

Try over $750,000 - recording an entire orchestra all day every day for two months! The cost of the concert hall, the addition of Prof. Keith O. Johnson and his truckload of equipment in another state, airfares, hotels and meals (including the players), over 9 months of editing and programming by a large team (including purchasing multiple computers), software development and OEM costs, manual, artwork, packaging, advertising and marketing costs.

You can also thank the early purchasers that paid nearly $3,000 for Platinum when it was first released, they enabled you to get it for less than one-third of the price today.

Then, of course, there is no guarantee the project will be a success, so you can add that risk also. Fortunately we selected a team that eliminated much of that gamble and it paid off.

Cheers,

- DR

Exactly.

Even the PLAY version as $1,300 when it was first released a year ago. That's what we all had to pay for it. I've seen it come down to $900 during sale periods, and of course the 2-for-1 deal right now is unbelievable.

peter5992
07-26-2009, 05:23 PM
Philip, to add to all of the foregoing, Eastwest spent two years producing the original Platinum library - not just the recording but also the processing of all those samples into a format which a computer can handle, which is an art and craft all by itself. Prof. Keith Johnson is a multiple Grammy winner and perfectionist and you bet he threw in the kitchen sink when it comes to using the best technology available. They burnt out computers and hard disks (and probably almost themselves at some point I guess ;-) - recording samples in a live orchestral hall environment with three different mike settings was a revolutionary concept which even Vienna Symphonic Library didn't have (and still doesn't btw). That is no secret, it is all documented in the user manuals.

I paid $ 1,700 for my Platinum edition (and even that was a good deal since I got several other libraries as well, believe RA and Boesendorfer and another one).

These are major league libraries we're talking about here - people spend countless hours producing a library like this. And the results are showing - you can create the most amazing music in your living room.

Going back to pricing, if you compare it to say Vienna Symphonic Library, you'll find that it is still a steal.

james 7275
07-26-2009, 08:25 PM
I would like to thank all those early on buyers who have enabled me to buy this for a $1,000. To have an orchestra at your fingertips 24 hours a day,7 days a week, 365 days a year, for that price is a bargain.

iLoked
07-27-2009, 12:44 AM
LOL :)

I'd rather ask EW; "Why the hell so cheap?!" ;)
(And it appears so, that there's already a given answer)

composeralex
07-27-2009, 01:46 AM
I've often wondered how they stay in business with such affordable libraries as well. I consider the thoroughness of the libraries and the quality of the samples and think, "Man, it must have cost a fortune to produce this! How can they sell it for only (x $)???"

Besides, the SO is well worth the $1,000.

My very first full-length feature score reimbursed me for that. And every other PLAY library, I might add!

chest
07-27-2009, 02:10 PM
Alright, why is it that SO Platinum Plus is $1,000!?

I'm guessing to hire the musicians to record was probably about $1,500 an hour, and they worked on it for probably a total of 15-20 hours, which would cost them about $30,000 to develop the program.


[Engage sarcasm mode]


Phillip

I'm glad to hear you know how to create an orchestral library so quickly and at such little cost, and yet make it on a par with EWQL. Not many people would have thought that possible. This is an opportunity too good to miss: you must put your ideas into practice. The other developers won't know what's hit them once you're on the scene. When your orchestral library is ready, it will surely be far, far cheaper than $1000. I'm looking forward to seeing it in the shops in time for Christmas.

At the same time they are recieving incoming finance from Stormdrum 2, and other famous programs, so EW is not on a shortage of money
I'm encouraged by seeing your attitude to financing projects. In view of that, I'm hoping that, after you've created your orchestral library, you'll create a second library and then a third, and use the income from their sales (after the costs are recovered) not for profit but to subsidise the price of your orchestral library, thus making it even cheaper than we might have expected.


[Disengage sarcasm mode. Re-engage wonderful human-being mode]

Denny S.
07-28-2009, 12:03 AM
They had to buy the microphone, recordophone, and hot dogs for all the musicians.

Do you have any idea how expensive hot dogs are?

LOL... This certain point almost drove the company into bankruptcy.

Well, I think most of it was said already. In comparison to Vienna's pricing policy it's a steal. I even feel kinda bad for having paid such a low price on my Platinum Plus Edition when I look at the prices a few years ago. And well... even that price was a bargain for the quality and possibilities that this product offered. SO has always been way ahead of its time.

Phillip L.
07-30-2009, 02:36 PM
Okay, guys, jeez. I just started composing with computers 6 months ago. I don't know everything. I just thought the pricing's seemed kind of high.

Hokuto Warrior
07-30-2009, 03:40 PM
"Alright, why is it that SO Platinum Plus is $1,000!?

I'm guessing to hire the musicians to record was probably about $1,500 an hour, and they worked on it for probably a total of 15-20 hours, which would cost them about $30,000 to develop the program."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAH A HA HA HA HA HA HAH A HA HA HA HA HA!

You could always try VSL!

Then again....you could always use the same money to buy a house.

ETM Dude
07-30-2009, 04:13 PM
Okay, guys, jeez. I just started composing with computers 6 months ago. I don't know everything. I just thought the pricing's seemed kind of high.

Uhm... have you looked at the Vienna Cube lately?

A.Leung
07-30-2009, 04:53 PM
Uhm... have you looked at the Vienna Cube lately?

You cant compare the CUBE to East West. Its apples and oranges...

ETM Dude
07-30-2009, 05:41 PM
You cant compare the CUBE to East West. Its apples and oranges...

I meant in terms of price... if he thinks $1K is pricey...

Logicology
08-03-2009, 08:38 AM
Okay, guys, jeez. I just started composing with computers 6 months ago. I don't know everything. I just thought the pricing's seemed kind of high.

Compared to what?!

If you "don't know everything" then don't go galavanting around the internet posting accusations as if you do.

instereo
08-07-2009, 06:56 PM
I think that's a perfectly fine question, Phillip. If you don't know, you got to find out somehow. I've often wondered how much it costs to make a sample library. I especially wonder how much Zimmer's and Gregson-Williams' libraries cost.

Now what you should really be asking is why doesn't EW allow users to resell their old libraries. That's what I really want to know!

michaelshumway
08-07-2009, 10:12 PM
this is quite the thread. by the way Phillip, a full orchestra has 90+ people in it. If you were to pay them $50/hr (a cheap rate for studio players), it would cost you $4500/hr. I'm guessing that the quality of musicians that East West hired for the recordings required a much higher hourly rate. Granted, they didn't record the entire orchestra at a time, but it gives you a ballpark at costs. That's only for the musicians. Not the studio, not the engineers, etc. On a side note, if you were to hire a professional orchestra (not studio players) the cost is $30,000/hr+ because of union requirements. Last time I got a budget from Utah Symphony for a project it came back at $30,000/hr. Their last CD release cost them $200,000'ish just for a cd. A sample library is far more time consuming. Anyways, lots of money.

Phillip L.
08-11-2009, 11:03 PM
Compared to what?!

If you "don't know everything" then don't go galavanting around the internet posting accusations as if you do.

You have 50,055 hairs on your head, and you recently walked about 11 steps to get to your studio.

Alright, let me just say this:

It took me 2 years to make $500, and I'm not old enough to get a job, so the pricing would be pretty high FOR a nonproffesional 14 year-old. Vienna cube is stupid.....anyone have any good thoughts on Halion Symphonic Orchestra?

Actually, all of you guys' helpful hatred torward me has provided me with the knowledge that EWQL products are definitely worth the money. I will be looking forward to purchasing some products from EastWest!

danieljay
08-12-2009, 02:36 AM
You have 50,055 hairs on your head, and you recently walked about 11 steps to get to your studio.

Alright, let me just say this:

It took me 2 years to make $500, and I'm not old enough to get a job, so the pricing would be pretty high FOR a nonproffesional 14 year-old. Vienna cube is stupid.....anyone have any good thoughts on Halion Symphonic Orchestra?

Actually, all of you guys' helpful hatred torward me has provided me with the knowledge that EWQL products are definitely worth the money. I will be looking forward to purchasing some products from EastWest!

Yes, do it!!

White Noise 2
08-13-2009, 02:54 AM
Alright, why is it that SO Platinum Plus is $1,000!?

I'm guessing to hire the musicians to record was probably about $1,500 an hour, and they worked on it for probably a total of 15-20 hours, which would cost them about $30,000 to develop the program.

At the same time they are recieving incoming finance from Stormdrum 2, and other famous programs, so EW is not on a shortage of money...

Is it because of the fact that it is amazing quality (and it is)?
Is it the portable convenience?

If I am being rude by talking about EW's finances, tell me, and I will understand.

-Phillip L.


Oh dear... I'm sure you're music's good but please stay away from anything business related. You've totally missed out loads of costs!!!

Phillip L.
08-13-2009, 11:18 PM
k srry

Johnny_B
08-14-2009, 09:48 AM
Oh dear... I'm sure you're music's good but please stay away from anything business related. You've totally missed out loads of costs!!!

Dude, Phillip posted this on the 26th if July!!!
Hasn't the guy had enough?

Phillip L.
08-15-2009, 12:54 AM
Yeah, and what's worse is that this is my first impression. Now whenever people see me, they will hide in fear because of my stupedity for questioning the omega.

Xplora
08-15-2009, 05:36 AM
Word of the wise to you Phil. You can expect to get your head flushed repeatedly, Noob style, if you raise questions which you have no POSSIBLE way of preempting. 14 year olds don't know much about anything, that's why they are teenagers and not middle aged businessmen. Read more. "Even the fool is considered wise when he stays silent".

Most people on this board don't know the finer details of running a sample library business. But we don't make presumptions about what it takes to produce.

To be honest, considering the competition, 1000 bucks for EWQL SO Plat is one of the cheapest deals out there for ANY software. You'll get burnt a lot if you don't recognise it. No one complains about a Gibson Les Paul costing 1000 bucks even though its just a plank of wood with a fretboard and some hardware, except kids who have no money anyway. Professional equipment is sold to people who use it to make money, not just show off to their friends ;)

Johnny_B
08-15-2009, 01:30 PM
Word of the wise to you Phil. You can expect to get your head flushed repeatedly, Noob style, if you raise questions which you have no POSSIBLE way of preempting. 14 year olds don't know much about anything, that's why they are teenagers and not middle aged businessmen. Read more. "Even the fool is considered wise when he stays silent".

Most people on this board don't know the finer details of running a sample library business. But we don't make presumptions about what it takes to produce.

To be honest, considering the competition, 1000 bucks for EWQL SO Plat is one of the cheapest deals out there for ANY software. You'll get burnt a lot if you don't recognise it. No one complains about a Gibson Les Paul costing 1000 bucks even though its just a plank of wood with a fretboard and some hardware, except kids who have no money anyway. Professional equipment is sold to people who use it to make money, not just show off to their friends ;)

Thing, is....I believe he *has* recognized this, and to be constantly bombarded (considering the date)
when his thread was posted is just beating a dead horse, so to speak...

In all seriousness, nobody in their right mind would go to a forum, run by EAST/WEST in the first place only to question their business acumen regarding sample libraries, and boldly question their method of....

Although, Phillip is quite the inquisitor when it comes to questions most would feel appropriate to call *common sense* questions, he did not mean disrespect from what I can gather concerning his subsequent posts on the matter...

Phillip L.
08-15-2009, 08:43 PM
You know, what I've also noticed is that people rarely discuss finanace on these forums, since people have the appropriate amount of money (unlke I), so when one questions a topic that is not talked about, then people reply to it extremely massively.

It's human nature....

Okay, saying that I'm going to get "burnt" after I've recognized that it is indeed a good deal is really saying that no one has a sense of when to stop, or when to quit. This is common with people who think they know everything (not saying you are). I'm pretty sure at one point there was a topic on this forum about the price drop, and everyone was like "OMG", except I WASN'T THERE!

k bye.

P.S. Thanks, Johny :)

Johnny_B
08-16-2009, 12:35 AM
No worries...

Although fortune favors the bold, Phillip....being TACT, and humble are valuable tools to hone if one
wishes to have true fellowship.

You don't want to hear crickets every time you post a *question* k?
Doing your *due diligence* as its called will go along way as it illustrates one's willingness to attempt to grasp
a concept that appears new to someone such as yourself who is learning new things...

(Speaking from personal experience)

White Noise 2
08-16-2009, 02:57 PM
I like him!!! Got smashed in this thread and kept his dignity. That's better than I would have done. Sorry for my part in bashing you little dude - I didn't look at your post date. Been away for a while see... Just came back and checked new posts. Yours jumped out a little. Keep asking questions... How else are you supposed to learn, eh?

interpolate
08-16-2009, 03:16 PM
I think at the end of the day you only get what you pay for. With Vienna Symphonic LIbrary you are paying for dry recordings, many articulations, several component library parts and all in 24-bit. You do get Vienna MIR and Convolution reverbs for the hall sound as well. Although once you add all that up, that's a lot of money.

So in retrospect, what you get with EWQLSO is good; natural reverb tails, other convolution reverbs; as for positioning of players, you can choose to sum stereo to mono and remove reverb tail and pan things how you wish. It's a little bit of a workaround alas should work.

I must admit I haven't actually really used this product as yet and i have had this for at least a few months. Although I used the Konakt version quite extensively.

shap
08-16-2009, 10:36 PM
Phillip: If you're starting out on a budget, consider getting the gold version of the library. EWQL has an excellent history on upgrade pricing. If you look at any given time, you'll usually find that "gold + platinum upgrade price ~= platinum price". But in the six months it will take you to learn your way around the gold library, the cost of that platinum upgrade will drop.

All I'm saying here is that if you're looking for a way to jump in on a budget, you shouldn't get stuck on the idea that you need to start with the platinum plus product right off. Get in at a price that works for you, learn your trade, and upgrade when doing so is appropriate to your skills and your continuing interest.