Size of an orchestra's string section?

[Thomas Kresge]

I've been wondering how to calculate the number of string players necessary for a typical orchestra. Here is the instrumentation of the other sections:

1 Piccolo
2 Flute
2 Oboe
1 English horn
2 Clarinet
1 Bass clarinet
2 Bassoon
1 Contrabassoon
4 Horn
3 Trumpet
3 Trombone/bass trombone
1 Tuba
5 Percussion
1 Harp
1 Piano

I've looked at other orchestras, but strings are inconsistent between them. What should be considered in devising the total number of players for each instrument in a string section? I've seen numbers ranging from 20-30 violins, then down to as few as 4 bassists. What would you guys consider a good size for this section, considering the above instrumentation of the other sections?

[peter5992]

That really depends on the composition and other factors - and the size of an orchestra and the strings section has changed over the decades. Nowadays it is often 16 Violins I - 14 Violins II - 12 Violas - 10 Violoncellos - 8 Double basses. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestra. But there's also 18 first violins, 11 second violins, 10 violas, 10 cellos, 9 double basses (that was used for EWQLSO). Really depends.

Bear in mind that the seating of the strings can also vary. Oftentimes the first violins are seated on the left of the stage, the second violins slightly behind them, but the second violins could also be on the right as was usual in the 19th century. And the double basses and cellos are usually on the right, but I've seen them on the left the stage as well (SF Symphony, Mahler's first symphony, few weeks ago).

I gather you are referring to a full fledged symphonic orchestra, not a chamber ensemble by the way.

[Jasper Blunk]

EWQL is a large symphonic orchestra... probably over 100 musicians... 18 1st violins is on the higher side.

For your setup, however, which is a medium sized symphonic orchestra, I would highly suggest 12-10-8-6-4.

[Peterkjones]

Hi Thomas, what you've got lined up here is a full size romantic orchestra. EWQLSO has it pretty much right bur live you'll need minimum 10-8-8-6-4. For a "Haydn" orchestra (double woods, where one player will double up on the cor, bass clari. contrafag, etc) double brass (+3 trombones, no tuba) you could get away with 8-6-4-4-2. No trombones 6-6-4-4-2. Reduce proportionally for smaller ensembles. For small 18thC. pieces you could dispense with the double bass but it's a good idea to add a bassoon to play continuo with the celli. Too often promoters seeking to save money trim out the string section who end up sounding anaemic.

[boulifb]

Small orchestra 16 persons:
v1: 6
v2: 4
altos: 3
vc: 2
cv: 1

small chamber orchestra 23/24 persons:
v1: 8
v2: 6
altos: 4
vc: 3
cv: 2/3

middle chamber orchestra or small symphonic orchestra 40/42 persons:
v1: 12
v2: 10
altos: 8
vc: 6
cb: 4/6

large orchestra (wagner/strauss) 60/62 persons:
v1: 16
v2: 14
altos: 12
vc: 10
cb: 8/10

Schoenberg gurrelieder 86 persons:
v1: 20
v2: 20
altos: 16
vc: 16
cb: 14

I hope this will help you.

Fred.

[mezzoforte]

A few suggestions:

(a) 20-16-16-12-8
(b) 18-14-12-10-8
(c) 14-12-10-8-6
(d) 12-10-8-6-4
(e) 10-8-8-6-4

They're quasi-equivalent. In terms of loudness balance, the number of strings players doesn't matter much. If you keep the proportion, that is. You know how much louder [(a) 20-16-16-12-8] will sound as compared to [(e) 10-8-8-6-4]? Would you think, twice as loud? Niet. Only about one tenth louder. Nothing that a conductor can't handle.

In short, you're good to go with any of the five. Of course, they won't sound exactly the same. (c) would be a fair choice; (b) and above will tend to give a more lavish sound; (d) and under will tend to sound more crispy.

[Dannthr]

Well, strings are also quiet little things and the sound accumulates in such a way that double the strings doesn't mean double the loudness. For 4 horns, I'd aim for the 14 to 18 firsts, but that's just me.