what would you do?

[Oliver_Codd]

Hello everyone,

I'm a student at UIC studying architecture, something I find very interesting, but am now realizing I don't want to pursue as a career. Music is and will always be my true passion so at the end of this semester (in 2 months) I'm going to switch my focus to music exclusively. The reason I'm writing this post is because I have two options, to go to school for composition in Chicago or move to LA and study independently. I am torn between the two! My dad has a place in LA and has offered to let me stay rent free if that's what I chose. He also works in the movie industry so he has a few connections but I'm not banking on those. At this point I don't think I'm quite at the level where I could make a living doing music. I would be very grateful for anyone's opinion or advice for me. Should I go to school here in Chicago and move once I'm confident enough of my work or just head out there, work my ass off and try to get an internship where I could learn on the Job? I would love to here other peoples experiences. Thank you very much! :)

-Oliver

[Jasper Blunk]

Dear Oliver,

I'm glad your deciding what you really want to pursue as a career. I would suggest moving to LA and with your connections there, starting to get gigs [and studying, if thats what you want]. Going to a university is a structure for learning, but nothing beats actual experiential learning in the workplace [from experience].

Connections are enormous, absolutely enormous. Although you might consider networking with composers at first thought, some of the most important networks can be editors, sound supervisors, sound editors and foley people, producers. Unfortunately, there is competition with composer-to-composer relationships. However, what would an editor lose by referring someone for a gig.

I've heard your music too, about "in china" or whatever it was called. :) Very nice, I think with the right people you can be successful. However, always remember to [try :)] to maintain an interest of many kinds of music; african, disney pop, european folk, middle ages chants, romantic classical, south american, etc. Personally, I don't find some of the Disney pop interesting, but the harmonies are often AMAZING, and certainly something that influences my music. It will help you understand many styles.

Good luck!

[A.Leung]

Oliver I wish you all the luck. The music industry is VERY difficult and VERY competitive. Most people just starting off have a second job and quite honestly even semi established composers have second jobs, some of those second jobs are music related and some are not. The fact is there are hundreds of times more qualified individuals then there are projects out there and with today's economy - even less projects.

I am not trying to discourage you - just give you observations I've made over the years. The fact that your dad has some connections in the movie industry is a plus.

[PaulR]

Alan's post is right and connections are a good thing. Any chance of hearing something?

[halftone]

Hi Oliver,

Stamina,determination and hard work count for a lot.

You have musical skills so go to it. Give your passion opportunity to succeed.

If I am reading correctly between the lines your heart wants L.A.

Whatever you do I wish you success.

Regards John

[Oliver_Codd]

Alan's post is right and connections are a good thing. Any chance of hearing something?

Here are a few pieces I've made. I'm kind of reluctant to even show them because they are more of a rough idea than a final composition due to my lack of time but what the heck. Thanks for everyone's advice also!



http://www.box.net/shared/xmr31yk80t

http://www.box.net/shared/ovh7lm5fde

http://www.box.net/shared/r3qmz35bc2

http://www.box.net/shared/n73fpmz6p5

http://www.box.net/shared/4lhqag842z

[mezzoforte]

Oliver, life is hard in this industry, you're better off in Chicago. What's your dad's phone number btw?

[Oliver_Codd]

Oliver, life is hard in this industry, you're better off in Chicago. What's your dad's phone number btw?

I'm ok with a hard life, especially if I'm doing something I'm passionate about. I'm sure he would love it if some random composer called him looking for work lol.. good luck

[Xplora]

LMAO Mezzo you're incorrigible.

Oliver, I'd stick with the architecture because passions wane and it's a hard hard life as a muso. Architects make good money and honestly, you'd be better off as a halfassed tech drawing guy doing music as a second job than throwing all your eggs in one basket. LA is full of models, musicians and actors - or at least, their restaurants and coffee shops are full of them. They are the ones waiting on the tables. ;)

I had this epiphany as well when I was 20 (9 years ago). I decided to stick with my psychology degree. I probably should have moved into music, but in the end, the education helped me to understand my world a lot better. Music isn't a professional direction, its a dream; its easy to follow your dreams once you're qualified to do other things. You don't want your fallback plan to be "nothing". If you go deaf, lose a hand, become a paraplegic, you might struggle in music; all that "equal opportunity" stuff is for people working in government institutions, the private sector is not interested in any barriers you might have.

By all means, you're welome to do as you choose. But try to take emotion out of this - there are billions of people on this planet who will marry out of obligation, who will work simply to survive, they do not have the luxury of choice. A career isn't about passion. It's about dollars and sense. Be sensible.

(Edit: I should say that your desires and direction at this point in time, and what you can handle forever, change dramatically over the years. You get married, have kids, buy a house, send them to college - or maybe you don't do any of those, and you watch all your friends do the same! The things we value as a youth are not the same as those we value as a 30 year old, or a 60 or 90 year old. Security and a reliable job might be worth a lot more to you in 15 years. Sinatra did it his way - but he also made a ton of money. If you struggle to pay bills and have a mediocre career as a composer, you might not feel that sense of satisfaction that you did it your way. You've got to be careful about parental support as well. My parents let me do uni for 4.5 years, but they pushed me in a direction that was very inappropriate for me and gave me virtually no guidance. All parents are well meaning. Not are well equipped to help you achieve life goals! )

[A.Leung]

Well said EXPLORA. SOme very good points.

[paulwr]

Read through some of John Powell's remarks in his thread. If you are not the best composer, are you willing to study more, write more..... loose sleep to get it all done.... above and beyond the competition? And still it is a long shot. I liked Steve Martin's comments on making it in the entertainment biz.... something like: "Get so good that they can't turn you down." Not easy, man, not easy at all.

If you're still undaunted, it sounds like you'd have a pretty decent situation in LA. Hopefully the private instruction would be very good. Remember, there are guys your age that are already composing 'monsters'. You've still got a lot to learn, though I like your instincts in what I listened to.

The decision is yours, and yours only. Good luck!
-Paul

[A.Leung]

If I had to have one thing that John (Powell) said and tell you what is (IMO) THE most important thing he mentioned is this :

Don't sound like everyone else. Create something different and unique. That will really place you ahead of the pack.

All the best in your decision.

[paulwr]

I really liked that, too.

-Paul

[Xplora]

Oliver, I just listened to your pieces, and dude, they are good. I think Blizzard would be happy to use them in a WoW cut scene, or Peter Jackson use them in the upcoming Hobbit movie. A nice sensibility and utilisation of the softer elements.

This doesn't mean you'll be able to make money composing however. It's arguable that I'm the best musician I know, amongst the circles I run with. VERY important to remember that you're a small fish in an ocean of choice, and there are sharks everywhere. Think of it as the High School Cheerleader Effect. She might be the prettiest girl in class, and the quarterback is taking her out every Friday, but that doesn't mean she'll make the cover of Vogue. Yes. Sometimes it happens - Miss Universe Jennifer Hawkins from Australia was a cheerleader for one of the nonSydney footy teams. Little exposure to the pageant circuit, yet she's worth millions now every year.

How many schools are there? How many football teams? How many cheerleaders? How many?

If you want to follow your dream, great. I really wish you the best of luck. But make sure you've thought about it more. Your burning desire to create needs to overpower your need for sleep. If you need to ask whether Chicago or LA is the better choice, I am guessing you don't know enough about the industry you seek to enter just yet. I've been in my current industry for almost 3 years now and I'm unsure if I enjoy it yet LOL

[PaulR]

Yeah Oliver - thanks for putting them up. Who is John Powell btw? - I don't understand why people keep mentioning this name - never heard of him. I'm not up on film writers these days and I assume that's what he does.

The trouble with the internet is everyone has an instant opinion - myself included probably. It's dificult when you're young. I have a daughter aged 25 so I understand this stuff.

I would try and do both. The world needs architects probably more than it needs music writers. I would study and complete on the architecture side and work on the music side too. The second things become 'a job' they suddenly become a lot less fun and appealing, especially musical pursuits. There are so many in the music world in the USA I would imagine - and most of them are probably mediocre. If they were any good they would be playing or conducting in a top notch orchestra and writing too - and how many do that these days? Daytime television beckons for a lot of would be music writers. Out of all the people I've heard over the years on the internet I would I have so far heard maybe 2 - yep 2 - who are just maybe going to cut it full time writing music. Sorry this is not more positive because you seem like a positive chap. Good luck.

[Xplora]

I think the important thing to remember with all this sagely advice is that we are strangers with one interest - your happiness, in the long term.

It freakin' sucks to say this but the older wiser heads understand what lucky breaks are. They are chances that come up amongst a ton of hard work, and sometimes they don't come. Hard times might seem acceptable now, but have you thought about the impact of seeing your school friends settle down and enjoy life while you toil for perhaps little reward? I love music. I really do. But damn... I've got an 8 week old little boy now, and he is a big priority for me. One day you might have a little boy too and waiting tables to pay rent might not cut it anymore. Those millions of arranged marriages and subsistence jobs I mentioned earlier don't necessarily mean you are unhappy... while Kurt Cobain was living the dream until he opened up into his face with a shotgun.

We're on your side, and we're saying be careful. Free rent with your dad is not needed if you're making enough green to buy your own home :)

[peter5992]

Tough call Oliver - I did both (law school and conservatory of music) at the same time but went for a career as lawyer until I decided to go back into music two years ago. I still have my law degrees in case it all doesn't work out quite the way I had in mind. You might want to look into that. Being an architect may not be your true passion, but it'll put food on the table while you can build a music business.

On the flip side, I would also recommend anyone to follow their heart. At the least you won't look into the mirror 10 / 20 years from now and think "could / should have done this or that".

Finally, I would not underestimate the value of formal education, whether in Chicago or LA. If you are going to LA you might want to check out USC or UCLA.

Tough decisions .... good luck!

[Oliver_Codd]

Everyone, Thank you SOOO much for all of your amazing advice and opinions. Joining this forum has really shown me how generous people can be, taking the time out of their busy lives to help out someone they don't even know. It is great to here about your experiences; I will greatly consider everything you have said. It is still an extremely hard decision but you have all helped me very much. Hopefully in the future I will be able to help someone out with my experience.. depending on which route I take! I wish you all the best and happy composing!!!:)

Oliver

[MichaelJM]

Definitely a tough decision. I can somewhat relate to it, as I have to decide at some point as well whether or not I want to follow a career in music or film (neither of which I'm told are easy career paths). Studying independently, or some sort of private instruction never even occurred to me as an option, as I thought I might just go to Graduate school for music in a couple years. I suppose my logic in that, was that I would at least be (hopefully) well educated prior to some sort of internship, and would be able to benefit more from a composers experience. Though there's nothing like a college education to take away one's self motivation for learning. Whatever environment you end up learning in, just be sure there is someone with experience for you to get feedback from, and ask questions.

It sounds like you know what your true passion is, and I commend you for realizing that, and choosing now as the time to pursue it. However, the great thing about music and technology like EW is, no matter what you end up doing, you can always compose music. :)

[Markus S]

Well, it's your decision, and I don't live in LA, but I'd say : Give it a try. Since you can do it without spending too much money and effort, move to LA, but give yourself a time limit : in example 12 months.

If after 12 months you do not earn a living, or you realize you don't like the work, go back and study. Just make sure that - if you do not move to LA - you won't spend the rest of your life thinking : Well, in reality I would have like to move to LA and become a composer. Better try it out, and then maybe move away without looking back, if it's nothing for you.

[A.Leung]

12 months IMHO would not nearly be enough time to know if it's going to work out, let alone be any gauge of knowing if you can 'earn a living at it.'

[Markus S]

12 months IMHO would not nearly be enough time to know if it's going to work out, let alone be any gauge of knowing if you can 'earn a living at it.'

That is possible, I don't live over there so I wouldn't know. How long did it take you get started, get things rolling, knowing you like the work? Or are you from LA originally?

But I do think it's a good thing to set yourself a time limit : Be it 12 months, 2 years, 5 years to make a living. If that doesn't work out, maybe it's not for you.

[Xplora]

But I do think it's a good thing to set yourself a time limit : Be it 12 months, 2 years, 5 years to make a living. If that doesn't work out, maybe it's not for you.

This is extremely wise, because it is so easy to be a washed up "never was" virtually living on the streets, pretending they are living their dream. LOTS of prostitutes and gang bangers would be people who thought they would be creating a career as a model or an actor... time limits are wise!

[mezzoforte]

Yes they are, otherwise the planet would become ridiculously overcrowded.

[peter5992]

That is possible, I don't live over there so I wouldn't know. How long did it take you get started, get things rolling, knowing you like the work?

I've heard from people that have been in the music biz for a long time (and who have seen others make it or not) that 5 years is a good rule of thumb. (the "five year plan"). if it hasn't worked out for you by then, you might have to consider an alternative career. It really all depends though - if you look at John Powell's Q&A, he suggests it could be anything between a week and 25 years!