Celebratory Music

[A.Leung]

Hmmm-I am now asked to research celebratory music of the 1860's? Does anyone have any suggestions on where to start? I've googled around a bit but its not an easy find so far. :o Would that be patriotic songs?

[AlCapps]

Hi Allan,

I'm no expert, but I do think that would be patriotic songs. That was around the time of the Civil War in America when Abraham Lincoln was president.

You should find something if you google that. :cool:

Al

[A.Leung]

ah-yankee doodle dandy, etc... I think I need the boss to be more specific! :)

thnx Al.

[Enrique]

Beethovens Ode to Joy seems pretty celebratory to me.. or does yer boss want something less classical / romantic and more folky /nationalistic?

[KenK]

Think Appalachia...

"Gimme dat ol' time religion,
Gimme dat ol' time religion,
Gimme dat ol' time religion,
It's good enough fer me."

Think Feet Stompin' Back Slappin, Hee Hawin'

That'd be my approach to it.
(I don't think marches are what people played at parties)

KenK

[rimskykorsakov]

I am now asked to research celebratory music of the 1860's? Does anyone have any suggestions on where to start? I've googled around a bit but its not an easy find so far. :o Would that be patriotic songs?


"Aloha" to all of you ....


Allan , my english is not that well to clearly define the term " celebratory music" .
Do you mean music that was played at official occasions (1) or rather "party music" (2) of that particular time ?



1.

The first national anthem "Hail Columbia" is a good example for the era from 1850 to 1890.
At that time the "classical" american music was still written in the european tradition ,
or to be precise : in the tradition of classical english music .

Listen to this arrangement: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyIqvZSuptk&NR=1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyIqvZSuptk&NR=1

( This anthem was replaced in the early 1930's with the "Star-Spangled Banner" . )


Folk music of that time usually used irish + scottish melodies ,
with new lyrics .... ahhhh .... a kind of REMIX .....




2.

Well , this scene from "Gone with the wind" shows you a short
Yankee-Doodle-style of "party music" and a more sophisticated Vienna-Waltz-style of that time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtOVmAtZ9tU&feature=related).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtOVmAtZ9tU&feature=related

(And , yes , it was quite hard for the party folk to do "head banging" to that kind of music ....)


Note:
While the short Yankee-Doodle-Style is a really great arrangement for that time ,
the sophisticated Vienna-Waltz-style , however, is played here by a Hollywood-string-section.
The string section should be of a much smaller size to make it really sound like from the 1860's .




Best ,


Gerd

[KenK]

HI Gerd-

Good to see you 'round here again.

Hail Columbia...
Man is that lame, sounds like a kid's song (Little Puffabillies comes to mind)
Didn't know The Star Spangled Banner became the National Anthem as late as the '30s.

Alan's quest would likely depend on geography.
Can't imagine they'd be listening to the same thing in Vermont as they would in Louisiana.
Also it's largely dependent on social strata. Jugband w/ Washboard vs. String Quartet.


Maybe we'll seeing you now and then?

Ken

[rimskykorsakov]

Hail Columbia...
Man is that lame, sounds like a kid's song (Little Puffabillies comes to mind)


Hi Ken ...

imagine the Vice President visits a school and gets "honoured" with this anthem ...
... being played by a school orchestra .... even slower and out of tune ... oouuuuuutsch ....




Maybe we'll seeing you now and then?



Yes .....



Bye


Gerd





P.S.:

... just a reminder : "Hail Columbia" is used to honor the Vice President

"Hail Columbia" starts at around 01.11 in this Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIy6Mu78P14&feature=fvw) of Joe Bidens inauguration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIy6Mu78P14&feature=fvw

[A.Leung]

Hey guys thanks for the help! Really. Some really good posts here.

Gerd!! Great to see you here again. You'vre really been missed. :)

The scene is an old Black and White silent bit where our hero returns from a lengthy and arduous deep sea ocean travel in a Captain Nemoish Bathysphere after scarey moments of fighting a giant squid monster that sort of looks more like a Cathulhu. He emerges from the bathysphere and the celebratory music begins. Heres the directors note (just in) :

"Somewhat, celebratory like some of those patriotic songs from the 1860's."

Cheers,

[rimskykorsakov]

The scene is an old Black and White silent bit where our hero returns from a lengthy and arduous deep sea ocean travel in a Captain Nemoish Bathysphere after scarey moments of fighting a giant squid monster that sort of looks more like a Cathulhu. He emerges from the bathysphere and the celebratory music begins. Heres the directors note (just in) :

"Somewhat, celebratory like some of those patriotic songs from the 1860's."
,


Quite a nice riddle .... hope you'll solve it ...


If only we knew what the director thinks what "patriotic songs from the 1860's" actually are ....:rolleyes:

[rimskykorsakov]

"Somewhat, celebratory like some of those patriotic songs from the 1860's."



Maybe he's referring to songs like these kind of patriotic and pathetic "traditionals" :


My Old Kentucky Home

listen to this string arrangement :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rTUARdyzME


or this kind of "military" stuff of that time :

Battle Hymn of the Rebulic ( Glory Glory Hallelujah )

starts at around 0:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl_rljOB4AE&feature=related


well ... let us know what the director actually had in mind ...

[A.Leung]

Maybe he's referring to songs like these kind of patriotic and pathetic "traditionals" :


My Old Kentucky Home

listen to this string arrangement :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rTUARdyzME

Well at least they knew when to cut to the cellist! :)

Thanks. The way these things go is usually like this:

Director: "I need patriotic music from the mid 1860's"

ME: "Oh you mean like this (insert patriotic music 1865)"

Director: "No No _ I meant like this! (insert 1940's baseball rally music)"

ME: "Oh..... Why didnt ya say so in the first place!" :o

[rimskykorsakov]

Ha Ha ... I know I know


Maybe it would be a good idea to release a kind of dictionary ( What they say .... What they actually mean ) .


That might become a real 'bible' for composers in the filmindusty

[peter5992]

Maybe it would be a good idea to release a kind of dictionary ( What they say .... What they actually mean ) .
That might become a real 'bible' for composers in the filmindusty

But there'd be at least one version for each film director - and each version would probably change all the time too.

Going back to Allan's description of the scene, what really comes to my mind is "Land of Hope and Glory" by Elgar. 1902, ok, but close enough. (well at least it's not a base ball song from the 1940s ;)) You play that, you'll get some feedback for sure, guaranteed. Would help, by the way, if there is some allusion to England. After all this is the unofficial British national anthem.

Another one might be anything by Philip de Sousa, and Beethoven's 9th symphony comes to mind as well (Alle Menschen Werden Brueder), especially the big chorus.

[GuitarSolo]

Have a look here http://library.timelesstruths.org/music/_/1860s/?sortby=year, don't know if it will help.

[V o n h ö g e n]

Hi Allan,

Now that I'm suffering from Swine Flu (or Mexican Flu, as it is called over here), I finally have the time to read through the threads of the past months. :) Great to see that you are still an active forum member, Allan! I'm really glad you didn't leave the forum after all.

I'm afraid I can't help you with this, but if you'd decide to include Beethoven in your research, make sure you don't miss Brahms' Academic Fest Ouverture of 1880.

Tip of the day: if you are currently working on a project, make sure you do everything to avoid getting infected. Although I had been working in my studio almost non-stop, I still got infected by my kids who, for some reason, are suffering much more than I do at the moment. This H1N1-virus really is a nasty virus. Protect yourself!

- Jerome Vonhögen

[peter5992]

Now that I'm suffering from Swine Flu (...)

- Jerome Vonhögen

Ew - that's not good. Get well soon. Beterschap! ;)

[V o n h ö g e n]

Dank je, Peter! ;)

[A.Leung]

Thanks everyone for the help and suggestions. I have to go and check more of your ideas out today.

Hey Jerome. Thanks for the help and I'm really sorry to hear about your flu. How is it different from any other flu you've ever had. Sounds nasty. I hear its in schools now locally.

Get well my friend.

Cheers,

[rimskykorsakov]

Now that I'm suffering from Swine Flu (or Mexican Flu, as it is called over here), I finally have the time to read through the threads of the past months.


Jerome , I hope you get well soon !!!
Actually tomorrow starts a big vaccination campaign against this Swine Flu over here in Berlin ,
and I really didn't care about that , because - like you - I'm locked up in my studio 14 hours a day anyway .
Until now, I thought that should be a "perfect" protection . But when I read your story , ... .

Spoedige betershap !

Gerd


( Sorry for being OT here ... )

[V o n h ö g e n]

Thanks a lot, guys!

To be honest, I don't think the virus has the same effect on everyone's health. To me, it feels like a common flu, but since I rarely get influenza, I can't really compare. But what I do notice, is that my kids are much more affected by the virus, which is of course a terrible thing for any caring parent. My other concern is that this flu has messed up my schedule/agenda, hence my warning to anyone working on a project (with or without antique patriotic songs!). ;)

Sorry for these OT remarks, but it is good to know that you should never assume you are safe in your own studio. You could even get the Swine Flu from the FedEx guy who's delivering your copy of Hollywood Strings! Maybe East West could ship their products with the Swine Flu vaccine included... :rolleyes:

- Jerome Vonhögen

[JCL]

Try "The Battle Hymn of The Republic". If Play Platinum Complete Plus and Play Choirs Expanded wont get it - try The Mormon Tabernacle Choir version.

[Enrique]

And to continue some off topic goodness (sorry guys!!), It's good to see you posting again Jerome! Welcome back. :):)

[V o n h ö g e n]

And to continue some off topic goodness (sorry guys!!), It's good to see you posting again Jerome! Welcome back. :):)

Thanks for your kind words, Enrique! This is such a great forum, I don't think I will ever leave this place.
From now on, I will be here more frequently. Now, let's sing in celebration! :)

- Jerome Vonhögen

[JCL]

Now, let's sing in celebration!

...or maybe play a recently mastered violin piece the world is awaiting!

[A.Leung]

Well let's see. Now their talking about a prologue with 4th of July music from the 1800's. So I guess that's like marching band music?

[OneThrow]

You could even get the Swine Flu from the FedEx guy who's delivering your copy of Hollywood Strings! Maybe East West could ship their products with the Swine Flu vaccine included... :rolleyes:

- Jerome Vonhögen

That would hopefully be a shot in the arm, not a pain in the ass. :D

[peter5992]

Well let's see. Now their talking about a prologue with 4th of July music from the 1800's. So I guess that's like marching band music?

Yeah - that is what comes to my mind.

Did you see that Iven's documentary last week by the way (Keeping Score with the SF Sympony)? His music (and Holiday symphony) was influenced by many things, including band music. I believe one of the pieces was actually called "4th of July". You might want to take a look at that as well. Completely different era, and to be frank I'm not a big fan of the way of his 'convoluted' scores (where there are two pieces of music playing at the same time, sounds like a mess to me) but it's yet another angle.

[A.Leung]

HEy Peter- I'll look for that. THeir web site video links confuse me just a tad. I guess some of them are linked to YouTube but some of them appear to be non-music related becuase it uses the YouTube method of suggesting links. I'll search though.

thanks everyone again.

[PaulR]

Hi Allan,

Now that I'm suffering from Swine Flu (or Mexican Flu, as it is called over here),
- Jerome Vonhögen

Sorry to hear that. Hope you and the children are feeling much better now.

[V o n h ö g e n]

Hey Allan,

Did you make any progress with your research on celebratory music? Do you still need our help with this?

Hope you and the children are feeling much better now.

Thanks, Paul. We are all fine now, but that Swine Flu has left me with a pneumonia and I had to do a lot of rescheduling because of it. What a waste of time. :(

...or maybe play a recently mastered violin piece the world is awaiting!

Sorry for missing that post. :o The violin piece you are referring to is ready, but I can't release it yet for a particular reason. I'll keep you informed, though. By the way, that piece happens to be from the early 1860s. How did you know? :) If I would be superstitious, I would think you were psychic! :cool:

- Jerome Vonhögen

[A.Leung]

Hey Allan,

Did you make any progress with your research on celebratory music? Do you still need our help with this?

All suggestions are welcome. It is for a project middle of next year so there is time. I have a folder with about 5 (pathetic eh?) of picks I've made.

Thanks for asking!

[wpzad]

I did a little searching around and found an 1860's patriotic song with an oceanic theme! :eek: "Columbia, The Gem of the Ocean". Hope it helps out.

http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/lyrics/columbiagem.htm

[SBallard]

1768

The Liberty Song (Considered the first true American Patriotic song)

1861 - 1865

God Save our Noble Union
Anderson March
Our Generals Grand March

1898

America Forever

John Philip Sousa; anything from 1886 - 1896

[A.Leung]

Thanks guys for the help. Appreciated much. Saw this quote in my research -thought it was interesting:

"Confederate General Robert E. Lee, once remarked that without music, there would have been no army. The New York Herald agreed with Lee when, in 1862, a reporter wrote, "All history proves that music is as indispensable to warfare as money; and money has been called the sinews of war. Music is the soul of Mars...."

[OneThrow]

The New York Herald agreed with Lee when, in 1862, a reporter wrote, "All history proves that music is as indispensable to warfare as money; and money has been called the sinews of war. Music is the soul of Mars...."

And 50 years later - Mars is the Bringer of War!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBbHcpF3nqo&feature=related

[A.Leung]

Lol. It took music 50 years to travel to MArs and then Mars went to war. lol...

[peter5992]

Saw this quote in my research -thought it was interesting:

"Confederate General Robert E. Lee, once remarked that without music, there would have been no army. ...."

He lost the war though -- just to be sure. That is why we have a United States nowadays. ;)