Constructing Organ Patches

[Alreet]

Can anyone point me to a good reference for making authentic organ patches based on the samples in Silver XP? I'm having a tough time creating something akin to a Baroque organ that doesn't sound to harsh. In particular, the sample for A3 in the Brukstwerk voice is much louder than the others due to the partials. It sticks out like a sore thumb unless I add heavy principals, which make the sound too heavy.

[matthew82475]

The first thing I would suggest is looking at your structure. A real pipe organ with two manuals and one set of pedals will probably be structured thusly: Great, Swell, and Pedal. The upper manual, which is typically called the Great, is usually associated with the pipes outside the louvered cabinets. The lower manual, which is typically called the Swell, is usually associate with the pipes inside the louvered cabinets. The pedals are usually associated with pipes outside the louvered cabinets (but not always).

Now, depending on the actual organ, any of these sets can often be coupled to any rank, that is a group of pipes. So, theoretically, you could have the pedals playing the 2' flutes if you really wanted. Although we don't usually associate the pedals with such high pitches, it is, theoretically, possible. Also, the manuals and pedals can also be coupled with each other, which means that if you have flutes in the great and trumpets in the swell, you could couple the swell to the great so that you get only the flutes with the great and both the flutes and trumpets with the swell.

Having said that, if you're using a synthesizer and simply activicate a whole bunch of pipes without considering how it would be played on an actual pipe organ, you're likely to end up with a sound that is significantly less than realistic. If, for simplicity reasons, you want to use only one configuration for an entire piece of music and one set of pipes is too loud, you can simulate having them in a cabinet by dropping their entire volume. IMPORTANT NOTE: There is NO touch sensitivity on a real pipe organ! You can add to the effect of having one set of pipes in a cabinet by applying a small delay.

Pipe organs are so complicated that it could take forever to really get into how to recreate them realistically, and you could probably fuss with your parts for days to get it just the way you want, but I think if you start with an actual organ design in mind, it'll probably get you to an end you'll be happy with quicker.

I hope that helped,

Matt

[Alreet]

Thanks. Most of what you mentioned is new to me. I guess I have some homework to do. I'll probably start with a single patch, and then graduate to making more dynamic patches. However, I'm mostly confused about which partials to add for which organ. The original Silver organs had great combos for Brukstwerk and Hauptwerk that just werked. :)

I like the freedom, but I wish the manual mentioned something about this.

[matthew82475]

Start with the 8's. That's considered to be "at pitch". 4' is an octave higher and 2' is another ocatve above that. 16' is obviously an octave below. Also, a stopped pipe sounds an octave lower which means that an 8' stopped flute will sound the same as a 16' flute. Whether or not the samples in Silver reflect this or not, I'm not sure. I haven't checked it out.

As for orchestrating your part, a good place to start is to begin with an 8' you like. If you want a bit more power add a 4'. If you still want more power add a 2'. Although, you'll have to watch out for strident parts. 2' ranks are like adding piccolo flutes to an orchestration. Use them sparingly and well and they add a lot of brilliance, use them too much and in the wrong place and they either overpower or just sound out of place.

For your pedal parts, again, start with an 8' you like. Then add a 16' if you want to add some real beefiness. You can add a 4', but watch out for notes that are too close to your 8' manual parts, you could end up with some muddiness you don't like.

As far as structuring all of this in your sequencer, a simple way to begin would be to play the manual parts in together, then go back and play in the pedal parts on a different track. Then you can assign different ranks to the two different parts. In reality, a good organist will switch between manuals as needed to orchestrate the piece well, and recouple the pipes (and possibly the manuals) on the fly. It's really sophisticated which is why a good organist is worth their weight in gold.

Best of luck,

Matt

[Alreet]

Very helpful response. Thanks!

[Dave Bourke]

Thanks for these posts, Matt. Very enlightening stuff.

Kind regards.

[stmain]

Matt gives excellent advice (I'm a professional organist, and we appreciate people who can clarify these weird beasts for non-organists!). A few minor clarifications of my own:

In case it ever becomes necessary to know this, on a two-manual organ, the BOTTOM keyboard will be the Great, and the top the Swell. On a 3-manual American instrument, the Great will be in the middle. This is important if you ever try to write music that involves the organist's leaping around from one manual to another.

At one point, Matt says "Also, a stopped pipe sounds an octave lower which means that an 8' stopped flute will sound the same as a 16' flute." The first part is correct: an open 4-foot pipe will, if stopped at the top of the tube, sound like an 8-foot pitch ("principals" are open, anything stopped becomes a flute, generally speaking). But the second part might confuse: an 8' stopped flute WON'T sound like a 16', because if it's a flute, it's already been stopped.

IMHO, the real need in organ patches is for someone to sample a basic "American Classic" instrument, like the kind found in most churches, using the stops that would be most useful for accompaniment. (Such as celestes, a basic Swell combination with 8 foot foundations and soft 8' reed, etc.). All these samples of baroque "recital" instruments are great, but they're not really the sounds that a real American organist would choose (or have at his disposal) if he were playing your piece in a church setup.

Just two cents from an organist!

Steve Main