Scores

[Squirrel]

Can anyone out there please tell me how you find some film music with orchestral layout (and not, as commonly used, piano reduction)? Im trying to study scores and their orchestration and look at the nitty-gritty of texture and orchestration.

Many thanks,

[awpmusic]

You can get all the great Classical Composers here:
http://www.classicalarchives.com/ you can download MIDI files - pop them in your sequencer and then study the score. Sorry I don't know a source for film scores. HTH

[matthew82475]

Genuine film scores are notoriously hard to come by. Even the ones you can find fairly readily are often adaptations, arrangements, are one person's "best guess" as to the original orchestration. Your best bet will be to get to know someone in the business. They often have better access to these sorts of things. I know that's a terrible answer; but honestly, it is the best way.

Another approach you may consider is to find "classical" scores which share a common musical language with film scores (i.e. Stravinsky, Wagner, Copland). While the structure of the music will be noticeably different, the orchestral language is very similar and could provide you with a wealth of information.

I hope this helps,

Matt

[tchoyy]

http://www.halleonard.com/

Here you can buy full orchestra scores from movies (but most of them are arrangements as it is said by matthew82475)

[mcdoma2000]

There are some John Williams film scores at TrueSpec (http://www.truespec.com/store/books/johnwilliams/index.shtml)

NOTE: I cannot comment on the quality of the scores, but according to the text:
"John Williams Signature Edition Scores are wire-bound, full-sized transposed orchestra scores measuring on average 9x12 up to approximately 11x17. All of these works are the concert editions that John Williams conducts from."

Good luck!

Mark McDowell

[Squirrel]

Thanks a lot everybody ...

[Sam Ples]

Unfortunately, other than the Williams Signature Editions, most of the real material is restricted to the orchestra rental world. There are a few sites that specialize in renting film score materials but I'm not sure if they would allow individuals to rent or not.

Themes and Variations is run by Franz Waxman's son, John. He has a lot of classic film materials as well as recent films but only parts of the actual film score are available such as prominent themes or suites created by the composer for performance. He also has concert works by his father and other composers of that era aside from their film work. (http://www.tnv.net/)

Some other sites are Disney Concert Library (http://www.disneyconcertlibrary.com) and Joann Kane Music (http://www.joannkanemusic.com) but their title catalog was not online last I checked their site.

The recommendation to visit the Classical MIDI archive is an excellent one. Composition you can study from a piano reduction, a full score is about orchestration. Orchestration in film is, more times than not, handled but someone other than the composer. This art you can study at the same place the film orchestrator went to school, the classical orchestra. There are plenty of orchestration books out there for the fundamentals as well as study scores on many works of all periods.

As a librarian for an orchestra I am lucky to have had some film score excerpts float across may desk, as well as having the oppurtunity to hear the orchestra live in concert hall. Hearing an orchestra play live is also a great help when approaching a sampled orchestra. At the moment we are performing a piece from the Polar Express score. What I can tell you about that orchestration is that it is about size. A large orchestra with 8 horns, 4 trombones and tuba, two harps and two keyboards and 8 percussion (lots of metal pitched percussion) along with everything else. Sometimes this size is used to create a large sound, other times it is used to trade off passages to allow players to rest, change instruments, or, pedalings without completely losing the instrument form the overall sound. Another technique is the use of motion in inner string, and woodwind voices to add motion. It’s hard to identify in a mix sometimes but it is there to be felt more than heard. Some o these things are live considerations that may not be necessary, or work the same way, in a sampled orchestra project.

Hope this helps.

[jmazzei]

You might want to check out Holst's "The Planets". John Williams and most everyone else in film, it seems, have used this piece as a template for harmonies, textures, etc.

Dover sells full scores at a reasonable price and I know they have "The Planets" available. Sometimes even Borders or Barnes and Noble have them in the music section.

Happy Holidays,

John

[awpmusic]

Register (free) and you can download midi files of the planets:
http://www.classicalarchives.com/main/h.html#HOLST

[matthew82475]

If you'd like a few suggestions of composers to check out; Copland, Stravinsky, Wagner, and Vaughn Williams will net you a vast amount of material than can be easily transferred to film score orchestration. Boosey & Hawkes has a huge amount of material as does Oxford University Press.

To use John Williams as an example, he has "borrowed" so much of his material from these composers, that by studying them you're vicariously studying John Williams. Check out the Introduction to the Second Part (The Sacrifice) of The Rite of Spring. Sound familiar? Williams lifted it nearly note for note in The Desert cue in the original Star Wars sound track. You can find stuff like this in many of the scores by the above listed composers.

Matt

P.S. I should note that this list is by no means exhaustive but it will give a good place to start.

[shnurgle]

I would recommend Bach, my brother. Not J.S., mind you, nor C.P.E. No, the Bach to whom I refer won't be found in any edition of Grove's Dictionary.

Murray "Steady Thigh" Bach (1987-1994) was a composer of true ingenuity, and his revolutionary orchestrations are responsible for about 110% of contemporary film music. His "Fantasy for Suzaphone, Autoharp, and Electrolux Vaccume Cleaner" is nothing short of confusing, to say nothing of his world famous concerto grosso, "The Smell of a Camel's Colon in the Morning, When Mixed with a Tequila Shot," which is without question, the shortest piece of music ever written by anyone named Murray.

My recomendation, my brother, would be to clean out your fridge, do 3 HONEST sets of squat-thrusts (12 reps/set), and snuggle up with no less than 90 Murray Bach Scores.

Regards,
Rumbledomb

***DISCLAIMER: TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THIS POSTER, NOT ONE MURRAY BACH SCORE CURRENTLY EXISTS IN PRINT OR CIRCULATION***

***DISCLAIMER2: THIS FACT SHOULD NIETHER DISUADE YOU, NOR STAY YOU IN YOUR COURSE OF COLLECTING NO LESS THAN 90 MURRAY BACH SCORES, WITH WHICH TO SNUGGLE UP.***

***DISCLAIMER3: TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THIS POSTER, "MURRAY BACH" DOES NOT PRESENTLY, NOR HAS HE EVER EXISTED, EXCEPT AS A FIGMENT OF MY WILD AND TORRID IMAGINATION."

***DISCLAIMER 4: IF YOU THINK DISCLAIMER #3 IS GETTING YOU OFF THE HOOK, THINK AGAIN, SWEETCAKES. 90 SCORES; NO LESS***

[ELP71]

Dang, I thought this was going to be about the 'Scores' gentleman's club in Manhattan... ;)

[SteveR]

Check out this site - a collection of online scores for full orchestra

http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/variations/scores/

The resolution isn't great but it's good enough. There seems to be a decent range of stuff - Debussy, Beethoven, Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky etc..