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lgrohn
04-05-2005, 04:49 AM
That piece mentioned below doesn't exist anymore. Here is another generated from the same picture (LG 26 June):

http://www.synestesia.com/x05/brooms2804.mp3

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I have done some experiments of adding the automatic GOLD articulation feature to my
Synestesia Software. This is one of my experiments generated in 5 seconds:

http://www.synestesia.com/x05/brooms0404.mp3

If you are interested in the picture used for this generation,
please click here (picture no 8 almost on top):

www.synestesia.com (http://www.synestesia.com)

LG

amo
04-05-2005, 05:17 AM
That's very interesting.... is there a way to get that software, for experiments ? Do you developp it yourself ?
Last question: do you get a midi file at the end of the generation ?
Regards,

Amaury

lgrohn
04-05-2005, 05:41 AM
That's very interesting.... is there a way to get that software, for experiments ? Do you developp it yourself ?Yes. Myself. About 500 hundred lines, Java applet. Sorry, but getting it is not possible to get at the moment. The SW does not have any user interface. I myself am using JBuilder as an user interface. The wind/brass Gold articulation needed about 10 more lines of code. I am going to have 3 user interfaces (for Internet, off-line and mobile use) before next winter. Last question: do you get a midi file at the end of the generation ?Yes. And the experimental articulations are in the midi file, too. The main idea is to get as much information from the picture as possible. Never written a note, no post-processing... how lazy I am...

LG

amo
04-05-2005, 05:46 AM
Nice to hear... Great job of yours, I find the process very interesting, especiaaly if you get as many informations from the image, it makes sound more peculiar.
Please give updates as when releases are done, or if you need some testers (when there is some interface, I no nothing about "builders"), let me know.
Regards,

Amaury

JeZii
04-05-2005, 08:11 AM
Hyvää työtä... :)

Sounds really interesting... I read once somewhere that there'd be such a program which could "convert" images to music, or maybe it was vice versa. But sounds very interesting indeed, good luck with the program! :)

Joona

lgrohn
04-06-2005, 07:39 AM
Today I made some experiments with the second type of Gold artticulations.

http://www.synestesia.com/x05/illusion0604.mp3

7-8 new lines of Java codeadded. It seems that using the same code
it is possible to make any instruments to have a dialog (trialog...).
LG

HJS
04-09-2005, 03:43 PM
The music was much better than what I would have anticipated for something generated by photographs (i.e., nearly random). But I want to hear from lgrohn what makes this music interesting for himself. And while I await the answer, I'll make a half-hearted attempt to explain what would make such music interesting for me:

(1) The music can be worthwhile to listen to by itself. While these photo-generated pieces are quite a bit more interesting than just random notes, there is nothing particularly special about them. Almost any part of music can grab my interest: Interesting forms, development, unusual orchestral or harmonic textures, unusual rhythms, dense counterpoint or even a good melody. This music wandered rather aimlessly. And what should a listener do when there is practically an infinite number of photographs and corresponding music to sift through? Is it all intended to be interesting music?

(2) There can be some correlation between the music and the photograph. One ordinary photograph probably cannot contain such an interesting correlation, but I can imagine a more geometric photograph (for example) where a simple (or even complex) pattern evolves spatially and there is a corresponding evolution in the music. Even better would be if there was a series of photographs (movie clip, nature scene evolving in time (bubbling brook, sun setting, clouds moving overhead), fractal dendrils evolving, crystal growth) with a corresponding change/evolution of the music. Rich correlated visual and aural tapestries.

(3) I would also find value in these experiments, if these were tools that I could use. I prefer to create music, rather than be a numbed and dumbed audience member. It would be fun to find my own correlations between photographs and the music. It would not take much - a simple text file that points to the photo (I assume there is a midi file output - that could just be the photograph name with the .mid extension) .


By the way, the link to the illusion0604.mp3 posted above is broken. And how do you generate the performance? Does the program manipulate any midi cc controllers? (And if yes, how?) I was surprised that the performance was decent, avoiding the note on/off artifacts.

HJS

lgrohn
04-09-2005, 10:05 PM
(The former link works now. The corresponding picture on www.synestesia.com (http://www.synestesia.com) is number 21.)The music was much better than what I would have anticipated for something generated by photographs (i.e., nearly random).Thank you very much for your comments. I have thought a lot of that "randomness". The pieces are of course deterministic (same music if nothing is changed). Let me take an example. The piece picture number 23 was composed in 5 seconds by using the parameters of another picture that didn't work. According to my experience until now there are some pictures that give almost always (using almost any parameters) interesting music. So the pictures can't be "random". The pictures have high level "structure" and nearby pixels are almost always correlated.This music wandered rather aimlessly. And what should a listener do when there is practically an infinite number of photographs and corresponding music to sift through? Is it all intended to be interesting music?As said earlier I have some hints of the "good pictures". But because I mostly generate my pieces after making some software changes when testing the new property, I don't have a good answer for that. But if you look at the pictures on my site, some pictures are used many times... Now EWQLSO have made a big change. When using Roland JV1010 I had only a handful of usable sounds and solo violin e.g. was totally impossible to use. Now I can for the first time use just the instruments I like. I quess before summer I have learned a lot!(2) There can be some correlation between the music and the photograph. One ordinary photograph probably cannot contain such an interesting correlation, but I can imagine a more geometric photograph (for example) where a simple (or even complex) pattern evolves spatially and there is a corresponding evolution in the music.I have not noticed any difference between geometric and normal pictures. When using simple harmonies the music is a kind of minimalism without repetition. One music student once remarked that one piece (number 40) seemed to do always something different that what he was waiting for. Then this music is a kind of cliche breaking music?Even better would be if there was a series of photographs (movie clip, nature scene evolving in time (bubbling brook, sun setting, clouds moving overhead), fractal dendrils evolving, crystal growth) with a corresponding change/evolution of the music. Rich correlated visual and aural tapestries.Somehow I don't find the "tapestry" metaphor very telling because there is no real repetition.(3) I would also find value in these experiments, if these were tools that I could use. I prefer to create music, rather than be a numbed and dumbed audience member. It would be fun to find my own correlations between photographs and the music. It would not take much - a simple text file that points to the photo (I assume there is a midi file output - that could just be the photograph name with the .mid extension) .You may try number 44 to find some correlation. An interesting point is that in principle using my software each user could find his/her favorite set of parameter (=style).By the way, the link to the illusion0604.mp3 posted above is broken. And how do you generate the performance? Does the program manipulate any midi cc controllers? (And if yes, how?) I was surprised that the performance was decent, avoiding the note on/off artifacts.Corrected. No conrollers used until now. Only generating keywitches or selecting frases from alternative tracks. Both using the information taken from the pictures.

Thanks again for your comments!

LG

neoTypic
04-10-2005, 12:13 AM
With Kontakt2 you'll be able to control other parameters through it's scripting engine combined with what you are doing now should you choose to go that route. Would be interesting to add yet another level to it.

lgrohn
04-10-2005, 12:41 AM
With Kontakt2 you'll be able to control other parameters through it's scripting engine combined with what you are doing now should you choose to go that route. Would be interesting to add yet another level to it.Interesting idea for more advanced work. At the moment I'll try to get most information from the picture and
include it in the generated midi file. Is there a good link to check the Kontakt script language? Thanks for the idea.
LG

neoTypic
04-10-2005, 01:15 AM
Interesting idea for more advanced work. At the moment I'll try to get most information from the picture and
include it in the generated midi file. Is there a good link to check the Kontakt script language? Thanks for the idea.
LG

I'm afraid their isn't a ton of information available. The manual itself aparently has a big section devoted to it and there is some information (http://nativeinstruments.com/index.php?id=k2script_us&ftu=6317ff1512) on their webpage. The scripts I've seen by other users on NSS make it seem like a relatively straightforward high level language similiar to python.

lgrohn
04-10-2005, 01:22 AM
Seems to be interesting and useful. I'll put that under my incubation hat...
Thanks,
LG

neoTypic
04-10-2005, 02:27 AM
Sure, if I find something out before you do I'll let you know. I'd like to upgrade but money is tight, especially since I'm trying to figure out if I have the money to do the group buy. ;)

lgrohn
04-10-2005, 09:30 AM
The music was much better than what I would have anticipated for something generated by photographs (i.e., nearly random).It just came to my mind that there are two old music generations here (MIDI):

http://www.synestesia.com/exp/experiments.html

The first one is based on random pixel picture and some old default parameters.

The second picture is totally black. Normally one or more most common colours
are filtered away. Not in this case...

LG

lgrohn
06-25-2005, 09:49 PM
With Kontakt2 you'll be able to control other parameters through it's scripting engine combined with what you are doing now should you choose to go that route. Would be interesting to add yet another level to it.I am still interested in this. Does anybody else has good links for this?

lgrohn
06-29-2005, 08:28 AM
Sounds really interesting... I read once somewhere that there'd be such a program which could "convert" images to music, or maybe it was vice versa.It has been done in one way already:

http://www.animusic.com/

Sicmu
06-29-2005, 08:43 AM
Generating sounds from pictures or anything else a computer can do can be a funny hobby, there are people who even made money selling canevas spread with crap or just exhibiting a toilet bowl, so you deserve much better than those if you developed your own software (I always respect serious craftmanship) and I'm not against these games or experiments till you don't call that Music.

lgrohn
06-29-2005, 09:33 AM
Aha.

Already two years ago the well known composer and conductor Peter Eötvös (http://eotvospeter.com/index2.htm) asked me to send him a score of one of my pieces when he was the composer teacher at Viitasaari Time of Music (http://www.timeofmusic.org/2005/index.php?page=courses). (In 1978, at the invitation of Pierre Boulez, he conducted the inaugural concert of IRCAM in Paris, and was subsequently named musical director of the Ensemble InterContemporain, a post he held until 1991.)

One of the pieces have been presented in the Finnish Radio.

One of the pieces have been presented in the local concert Hall.

They called it Music.

Sicmu
06-29-2005, 10:23 AM
Aha.

Already two years ago the well known composer and conductor Peter Eötvös (http://eotvospeter.com/index2.htm) asked me to send him a score of one of my pieces when he was the composer teacher at Viitasaari Time of Music (http://www.timeofmusic.org/2005/index.php?page=courses). (In 1978, at the invitation of Pierre Boulez, he conducted the inaugural concert of IRCAM in Paris, and was subsequently named musical director of the Ensemble InterContemporain, a post he held until 1991.)

One of the pieces have been presented in the Finnish Radio.

One of the pieces have been presented in the local concert Hall.

They called it Music.

Ya ! Certainly the same people who called "Art" Marchel Duchamp 's Toilet bowl, your merit is to be among the first to do that but art and music is not the "concour Lépine", unfortunately people like Boulez tend to still believe it 50 years after the failure of this kind of music.

Nevetheless congratulations for getting a public performance of your work,I hope that during the concert your music was played by the only musician who deserve that : a computer (otherwise you are not in harmony with your system)

lgrohn
06-29-2005, 10:41 AM
What do you think about the music of Brian Eno? (http://www.enoweb.co.uk/)

Or music of Stockhausen (http://www.stockhausen.org/)?

Or music of Scelsi (http://www.frankperry.co.uk/GIACINTO%20SCELSI.htm)?

I guess you have listened many pieces of those three because you know so well what is music and what is not.

lgrohn
06-29-2005, 11:04 AM
Statistics for the last May:

http://www.synestesia.com/statistics_country.gif

Sicmu
06-29-2005, 12:51 PM
What do you think about the music of Brian Eno? (http://www.enoweb.co.uk/)

Or music of Stockhausen (http://www.stockhausen.org/)?

Or music of Scelsi (http://www.frankperry.co.uk/GIACINTO%20SCELSI.htm)?

I guess you have listened many pieces of those three because you know so well what is music and what is not.


Thank you for the links, I only knew Stockhausen, I don't like his music but I'm not sure he used computers for composing since he did use electronic equipment.
I checked the Eno website but was unable to listen to music sample, so I went to others online Cd stores and found one piece : electric piano of the seventies ??? Is it compsed by a computer ?

I checked the Scelsi site as well and discovered that he was "one of the most extraordinary composers who have ever lived" (quote), shame on me !!
It was quite listenable and I have heard a lot of music like that but it was not mentioned that he used computer to compose his music, am I wrong ?

So I don't get on you because the point started with music COMPOSED by computers and the ones you mentioned do not(tell me if I'm wrong), but I admit that to me "experiments" are not art, neither music, so that's a reason why I don't like te music of Boulez who said once that tonal music composed after the fifties is nonsense !!

But I do like contemporary music, especially from Scandinavia : Sallinen, Aho, Rautavaara, Norholm... and one of my favorite : Allan Petterson, I think you don't like him otherwise you'll never use computers to compose instead of you.

I don't pretend to tell the absolute truth : you know that art and music are subjective fields, if I don't like what you do you, you and all this school of "old postmodern" it's because I have to do my stuff and believe in it, we are not from the same musical world and I sincerely hope that these experiments will be forgotten in ten or twenty years.

Anyway, thank you for the chat : it changes from the usual sequencer-sample library discussion.

Alex,


PS : why don't you put ears into computers, so no more need for listeners : music generated by computers and enjoyable as well... "Destroy all humans !!"