More for the visual learner. . .

[Jayk]

Ok, reading the Midi Guide to Orchestration and just ordered Adler's set but I'm hungry for more and I am a very visual learner (I know it sound strange to say visual when dealing with music) but I would like to get an idea if any of you have any DVD or video recommendations that would be worthwhile to see how some of the instruments and articulations are played.

I will be attending MANY concerts in the next few months to see them in person but I would like to be able to reference some of the more interesting articulations that I surely won't remember seeing on stage. The idea is that I want to get the most realism out of the samples and would like to see the specific techniques for how the musicians actually play their instruments to get the articulations and various sounds.

I'm looking for ideas as simple as the PBS special where John Williams conducts the Boston Pops or something more educational/instruction based.

Obviously all of the book recommendations have been great and I'm growing the library one big chunk at a time. You folks seem to always point us in the right direction!

Thanks in advance!

Jay

[neoTypic]

I'm actually the same way and I'd like to see something like that too!

[matthew82475]

Hey Jay,

For what it's worth, you will probably get a lot more milage out of a score and a recording on CD than anything else. Being able to see which instruments are playing and exactly what it is they are playing while listening to what that particular combination sounds like will offer you an enormous insight into orchestration. You can't really overstate how valuable scores and CDs can be. Often times, what you think you might be hearing is not what you are actually hearing. Having a score will allow you to see and hear what an oboe and flute sound like together, or 4 horns in their low register sound like against violins two octaves above, etc.

Some people just like to "mess around" or "try out" different orchestrational approaches. However, if you have a score and a CD of something you know you like, you can get straight at it, by duplicating or immitating what someone else has done. An old saying goes, "Good composers borrow; Great composers steal." If there is a particular combination of instruments that you like, USE IT! And looking at a score can be the best and fastest way to find out exactly what your ears are telling you.

It's a great way to combine both visual and auditory learning in a specifically musical way.

Best Wishes,

Matt

[LEX]

"Good composers borrow; Great composers steal."

Actually it was Picasso that said,
"A Good artist borrows, but great artists steal."

And one of my favorites, "Art is never finished. It is abandoned."

LEX

[Jayk]

Thanks for the tip Matt! I am currently looking for some scores of the big "hollywood sound" as that it what I am trying to emulate but they are hard to come by.

I did click a few links for the John Williams scores that someone nicely posted but I was hoping to find some others ie Mr. Zimmer. Any thoughts?

In the meantime. . . still looking for any good video recommendations!

Thanks and hope you all had a great holiday!

Jay

[jmazzei]

Hi,

Adler's CDs are pretty much required to get the most out of the text. Unfortunately they'll set you back almost a hundred bucks but will be well worth it as you can follow the score along with the CD. The CDs contain the excerpts from the books and also have small videos of players playing the instruments (solo).

As Matt said, reading scores while listening is a great way to learn orchestration. Unfortunately, film scores aren't readily available since they are owned by the film companies and they don't seem to release them, probably because the market is so small. The Williams scores are great but they are mostly suites he put together and don't necessarily follow the film frame by frame.

That being said, there are plenty of classical music scores available and many (most) film composers have been influenced by classical music. For example: I took an orchestration seminar a few years ago in Hollywood from Scott Smalley, a top film orchestrator. He worked with Danny Elfman a few times and he said that one of Elfman's main influences was the Nutcracker Suite.

Books such as "The Score" and "Music for the Movies" have interviews with film composers where they share some of their influences.

Also, Aaron Copland and Prokofiev (amongst others) wrote film scores in the 40s and 50s. I have the score for Copland's "Red Pony" suite from Boosey and Hawkes. There are plenty of recordings of this on CD as well.

sheetmusicplus.com has most of this material available. I'm sure there's other sources as well.

Also Alexander Publishing has an orchestration course that uses Rimsky-Korsakov's text. I haven't taken it but it looks like it might be good. I think they have assignments that you send in for evaluatiion. It appears to be a bit Garritan-centric but I don't think that matters much, orchestration is orchestration.

Good luck,

John Mazzei

[jphilpit]

Another interesting resource is:
www.classicalarchives.com
They have MIDI files for lots and lots of classical compositions which you can download. (As a free member you can download up to 5 files a day; if you pay a membership fee, you can dowload all you want.) Most of the available titles are old enough to be in the public domain, but that still provides access to lots and lots of scores as MIDI files.

For example, you might want to know how Dukas achieved a particular sound you like in The Sorcerer's Apprentice. Download the file and load it into a notation program. You now have a full orchestral score you can follow along with while listening to a CD. Find the measures of the sections you want to emulate.

Then load the same MIDI file into your sequencer. Maybe extract that one section you want to play with (or not) and then start to assign instruments and articulations. In some cases, you'll have to assign different notes within a single to staff to various articulations, either by using a keyswitch or by cloning the track and removing complementary patterns of notes from the twin tracks.

Once you get it sounding close to the original thing, you can start playing. Try replacing legato violins with mercato violins to hear the difference. Try replacing an oboe with a flute (maybe when it's doubling a violin) to determine the effect. You might try to get closer and closer to the recorded sound. Or you might try to diverge from the sound in creative ways: replace the French Horn solo with a Marimba, just for the fun of it. It's all about learning how changing the instrument and articulation changes the sound.

And what makes this exercise so much easier than it would be otherwise is that you're starting with the notes already entered. No longer do you have to enter 20 measures worth of notes on 25 instruments in a tutti passage to play with your own virtual orchestra. You can get your first listen after maybe 10 minutes of assigning instruments to the various tracks. You can try this and try that and learn as you go with little drudgery.

Enjoy,
John

[awpmusic]

Another source of the classical midi files here:
http://www.classicalmidiconnection.com/

[MacMatt]

Hi,

The CDs contain the excerpts from the books and also have small videos of players playing the instruments (solo).



That's true: the videos from Adler's CDs show you the various techniques and articulations for every instrument: it's very interesting! :)

Matteo

[Jayk]

First of all - good stuff. Thanks for all of the suggestions! Truly appreciated by someone aching to learn. I've got a bit of a checklist now that should keep me busy (but if anyone has any other suggestions I'm all ears!!).

Also, I am waiting for the Adler Book and CD set. Ordered over the holiday. I'll find out soon enough, but do I understand correctly that there are videos included in the CD set or is there another set I need to buy? If they are included are they meant to be used in a viewer on the computer then? Just curious as I'm anxiously awaiting my shipment (good price and in-stock at Overstock.com by the way in case any other newbies are interested!).

Thanks again for taking the time to post your suggestions!

Jay

[jmazzei]

I'll find out soon enough, but do I understand correctly that there are videos included in the CD set or is there another set I need to buy? If they are included are they meant to be used in a viewer on the computer then?
Jay

The Videos are on the included CDs and are Quicktime so you can watch them on your computer.

(Sorry, I don't have the quote function down yet :D )

Happy New Year.

John

[Jayk]

I'll find out soon enough, but do I understand correctly that there are videos included in the CD set or is there another set I need to buy? If they are included are they meant to be used in a viewer on the computer then?
Jay

The Videos are on the included CDs and are Quicktime so you can watch them on your computer.

(Sorry, I don't have the quote function down yet :D )

Happy New Year.

John


Thanks much!

[ToddK]

"Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra" :D :D

[Jayk]

"Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra" :D :D

Don't laugh - at this point I'll try ANYTHING!!! :D