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Evan
05-08-2005, 07:46 PM
Well it finally happened I got banned at NS for Questioning on Garritan's Group buy the rules on group buys and how they only allow some to happen at certain times so as to not have any monopolize the market. Looks like I'll be hanging out here and at VI alot more! :)

dcoscina
05-08-2005, 07:48 PM
Welcome to the club! You're better off. This is a better board. Friendlier. More insightful. All that good stuff. :)

Nick Phoenix
05-08-2005, 07:58 PM
WELCOME!!!!!

neoTypic
05-08-2005, 09:32 PM
Welcome (and :rolleyes: at some of the moderators on NS). Apparently dissent isn't allowed. *cough*

Waywyn
05-09-2005, 02:12 AM
yes, i was also banned over there by just asking the same, what happened to platinum and larry seyers group buy.

i really don't care anymore, hopefully mr. chalk will not bann himself one morning when he is in bad mood.

dubaifox
05-09-2005, 02:50 AM
Wow!

I posted right after Gary announced his group buy.

I didn't get banned yet...........

I was under the assumption it was illegal to do group buys after all of the drama's around EWQL leaving the NS forum, but apparently you can do it if it is scheduled.

I'd love to know the real story behind all of this.

neoTypic
05-09-2005, 02:58 AM
Neither side is talking which is fine since both groups have their needs (one perhaps is handling it worse dependant on individual opinion :rolleyes: ).

From my imperfect ass-upmtions, and what I've seen, it may seem that NSS wishes to restrict how many group buys are going on and wishes to control when/how they take place (it seems Garitan has been on the waitlist for a while from the tone of it). Perhaps EWQL didn't like the restriction given they were paying to have their forum hosted. Now they have their own. Problem solved.

Doesn't exactly explain the mass banning and seemingly overeaction on NSS's part however. There are probably a few holes in my guesstimation. ;)

Doug Rogers
05-09-2005, 07:46 AM
Neither side is talking which is fine since both groups have their needs (one perhaps is handling it worse dependant on individual opinion :rolleyes: ).

From my imperfect ass-upmtions, and what I've seen, it may seem that NSS wishes to restrict how many group buys are going on and wishes to control when/how they take place (it seems Garitan has been on the waitlist for a while from the tone of it). Perhaps EWQL didn't like the restriction given they were paying to have their forum hosted. Now they have their own. Problem solved.

Doesn't exactly explain the mass banning and seemingly overeaction on NSS's part however. There are probably a few holes in my guesstimation. ;)

No, that's not it - they haven't had a group buy for months.

The deal is, you either pay them what they want (even if it's excessive in our opinion compared to their hosting contribution) or you can't advertise group buys there; even though we were 'paying' them for a forum and banners. They then invented a new rule, as if they had invented the concept of group buys (they didn't), to silence any discussion about them. That was enough for us to say goodbye.

We have no problem with NS making money from their board, and as you know we contributed for many years, but we considered the negotiations for future group buys a form of extortion which we refused to participate in, and which resulted in us leaving.

In retrospect, they did us a favor. We are really enjoying having our own forum. It's growing every day. It's much more positive overall without the developers and their supporters bickering with each other, and I'm proud to say no one has been banned here since we launched the forum!

- Doug

dcoscina
05-09-2005, 09:56 AM
No, that's not it - they haven't had a group buy for months.

and I'm proud to say no one has been banned here since we launched the forum!

- Doug

That's because the moderators here are mature, open minded people who respect the posters (and customers) on this forum. NSS fails to understand this. :p

chocothrax
05-09-2005, 11:32 AM
You have to pay extra if you want to do a group buy? You'd think they'd be happy with the large amount of cash they charge for each banner each month. Man I gotta start my own forum! Easy money.

esteso
05-09-2005, 11:40 AM
It's getting to look a little lonely over at NS these days. I look around a little bit and it seems to have that "End of the Empire" feel. Too bad, it used to be great. But hopefully this will be a fruitful place to hang out and exchange ideas with all you wonderful and talented people.....and get help when needed too.

Cheers

KevinKauai
05-09-2005, 01:53 PM
There is a thread "over there" (started by Bela D Media's Francis in what seemed to be a peace-making move). Interestingly in the span of about 4 hours there have been 50 replies to it. For those of you who cannot see that thread due to recent banishments, etc., I reproduce the thread starter and my contribution to the discussion.
I typically do my very best to stay away from heated topics of interest however, I feel compelled to voice an opinion.

In my opinion, some are too quick to judge the “behind the scenes” issues that the administration of this forum must deal with day in and day out. I read what is being said about Northern Sound Source on other forums and I strongly disagree. I feel that what is being written is misleading, untrue and very immature.

Speaking for myself - I owe a great deal to Northern Sound Source. The administrations have always been very kind, understanding and helpful.

Speaking for the rest of us - we have all made great friendships here. We have learned so much about music and the industry as whole. Is this place not the first click on your browser? It sure is for me.

Speaking for myself again - I thank the administrators for making it the most successful sample/electronic music forum on the World Wide Web.
For whatever reasons, the climate here on the NS Forums seems to have changed perceptively in the recent few weeks. Of course, the niggling nabobs of negativity and those who constantly spread dissent are better off gone, but the recent “divorce” of the SoundsOnline/East West gang (can I even say their name without getting another reprimand from PaPa?) seems definitely to have stressed the community. (One member, evan_gamble, was apparently banned for simply asking a question about procedure vis-a-vis a currently offered Group Buy and he and his entry in the thread are "history".)

There are some here (and you know who you are, so if the shoe fits …) who would like everything to be like a happy Disney animated story at all times, where conflict is unknown. Unfortunately, that isn’t possible as problems get some people slightly (or more) hysterical, especially if it seems to them that their entreaties for assistance are falling on deaf ears.

Tolerance is wonderful, and this thread is obviously striking a lot of chords among a lot of people (me, included). Unfortunately, when Moderators take actions to close threads, delete entries and/or make whole topics disappear, it seems like a lot of “east bloc” action that, to me, at least, is highly repugnant and the antithesis of “free speech”. I fully realize that there are commercial entities to protect, but the censorship that has of late been exercised here may be doing more harm (in the minds of free-spirited CUSTOMERS).

Anyway, that’s my 50th of a dollar contribution!

Cheers! KevinKauai

Frankly, I feel (of late) that I am walking on proverbial eggshells at NS, but there's only so much rank censorship and intimidation up with which I will put!

LATE UPDATE FROM THE FRONT:The thread has now been CLOSED (at least not disappeared!) with the following comment from PaPa:Closed temporarily so no one misses anything a few questions wer aasked that we already answered with this posts.
Some here need a breather to look at this agian carefully.Interestingly, his final comment seems to place the blame on the people asking questions while it assiduously avoids making any admission that NS procedures might be at the heart of the controversy!.

chocothrax
05-09-2005, 03:06 PM
Us banned people can still read NS, we just can't post.

Waywyn
05-09-2005, 03:13 PM
Us banned people can still read NS, we just can't post.

hehe, yay and that is somehow a funny but also weird thing.
after getting banned at NS i kinda feel like lifted up because i just see everything from the outside now. i can't believe that "chalkie" even helped to get out of this mess and makes me laugh whats happeing over there :)

but the most funny thing is when i woke up this morning i had two PM's in my box but because i was banned i was not able to read it ... really good logical thinking. it was maybe crap anyway :D

Evan
05-09-2005, 03:29 PM
I cant even read it..IP address banned :cool:

ELP71
05-09-2005, 03:36 PM
Hey Evan - do you know if Guga_Bernardo and KC got banned over that psycho thread I innocently started (I had a question about networking that turned into a pissing contest...with Communist, Nazi, and a few other choice accusations being thrown around. Wow, it was furious)??? I haven't seen much of those guys over there recently.

Here's the thread - BTW it got ten times worse in a 'ban Guga' thread that was ultimately deleted.

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33786

Chaim Goldman
05-09-2005, 04:39 PM
I suggest opening right here a Sample Libraries Discussion Forum.

What do you think? :)

Doug Rogers
05-09-2005, 04:42 PM
I just tried to respond to Mark Simon's (Papa Chalk) post about us not offering to take the archives with us because they didn't want to pay for the bandwidth. The post went automatically to the forum administrators who are approving all posts in that thread - a first for NS, more censorship, but not unexpected given the climate there lately.

I don't like being muzzled (this is not Putin's Russia) so here's what I wrote -

Mark,

On April 29th I wrote to you and said the following -

"There are issues that are important to us that need to be resolved -

The first is maintaining an archive of the posts over the years. Forum members are concerned about this and I think you would show goodwill by keeping them available."

Not only did I not get a response to the email, but there was never any suggestion that we could take our archive with us as they didn't want to pay for the bandwidth. If that offer is still on the table we will gladly pay for the bandwidth.

I also said in that same email -

"Regardless of your decisions, we have enjoyed being at the forum and thank you for taking care of us over the years."

Since I couldn't post this at your forum Mark, maybe you can come here and answer this, I promise you will not get banned!

-Doug

KevinKauai
05-09-2005, 04:56 PM
So no one offered to burn you a DVD (or 2 or 3) of the Forum content and mail it to ya? It seems to [naive] me that there should be a "graceful exit strategy" for both the client (EW/SoundsOnline) and for the hosting supplier (NorthernSounds) for the case when it's time to part ways, but what do i know!?

I'm less and less impressed with the conduct of the "management" and "survivors" over there at NS. [But don't tell them -- I'll get banned. As it is, I've taken to being a "read-only" participant in the Garritan area -- don't ask! won't tell! -- and only drop in the odd comment here and there in other areas of interest.]

Life goes on ... there's another 50th of a dollar!

KevinKauai

neoTypic
05-09-2005, 04:58 PM
No, that's not it - they haven't had a group buy for months.

The deal is, you either pay them what they want (even if it's excessive in our opinion compared to their hosting contribution) or you can't advertise group buys there; even though we were 'paying' them for a forum and banners. They then invented a new rule, as if they had invented the concept of group buys (they didn't), to silence any discussion about them. That was enough for us to say goodbye.

We have no problem with NS making money from their board, and as you know we contributed for many years, but we considered the negotiations for future group buys a form of extortion which we refused to participate in, and which resulted in us leaving.

In retrospect, they did us a favor. We are really enjoying having our own forum. It's growing every day. It's much more positive overall without the developers and their supporters bickering with each other, and I'm proud to say no one has been banned here since we launched the forum!

- Doug

Thanks for clearing that up Doug. I didn't mean my post as a dig at either side, just expressing the little tidbits I was seeing. ;)

Doug Rogers
05-09-2005, 05:28 PM
Btw, I've been banned from posting there now!

NS is turning into Putin's Russia!!

- Doug

synergy543
05-09-2005, 05:30 PM
I don't like being muzzled (this is not Putin's Russia) so here's what I wrote -
Hi Doug,

I'm sure you read my posts on NS about the archives which I posted before reading your comments here. I sincerely asked for some clarification on the same questions but Mr. Chalk refused to answer claiming they were already answered earlier in the thread and he didn't want to repeat himself. I don't think I'm the only one who can't clearly find the answers posted.

I respect your openess and willingness to address, discuss and and clarify this topic in a censor-free forum as it has potential benefit for all. Hopefully there will be an answer someday. In the meantime, there is much new ground to cover. As soon as the Choirs and EWQLSO Pro are released these will spawn lively new discussions on this and other forums making the NS archives less necessary.

Lets celebrate the new directions!

Viva la revolution!

Respectfully,

Gregory D. Moore

synergy543
05-09-2005, 05:49 PM
I cant even read it..IP address banned :cool:Poor Evan! I tried to warn you young lad. Did they ban you for what you said before I hinted to you the "tacit warning"? Or did you make further comments? In anycase, you're not missing a lot and you're not alone - almost all of my friends have been incinerated. Most of the content on NS was deleted anywho. Unless you're into the newer reality gossip shows such as "NS Survivor" you're not missing a lot of content.

I must be one of the few survivors over on NS. Funny, I don't know why they don't ban me. My posts always seem to be the last ones before the threads are closed. I never try to be taunting and only ask questions with the utmost sincerity. Maybe that makes it harder to be evasive and why the threads are closed so often after my posts?

Consider it a badge of honor to go down in flames for what you sincerely believe! It is good for the soul and strengthens the music inside.

Banned as at such a young age....pity. :cool:

Salute,

Gregory D. Moore

esteso
05-09-2005, 07:45 PM
Well i for one think that a concerted effort should be made to revive the archives, whether being hosted at NS or here. They are extremely valuable, and will continue to be valuable for at least the next two or three years. (After that I presume the wisdom contained in them won't be of much use because of their age)

Can anything be done?

Frederick
05-09-2005, 08:40 PM
Btw, I've been banned from posting there now!

NS is turning into Putin's Russia!!

- Doug

Hey Doug, I got banned too so don't feel bad! They must be doing a special for forum owners ha ha. Maybe we should do a group buy on T-Shirts that say: "I got banned at NSS!"

You guys have a great forum here - congrats! :D

~Frederick

josejherring
05-09-2005, 09:06 PM
It's getting to look a little lonely over at NS these days. I look around a little bit and it seems to have that "End of the Empire" feel. Too bad, it used to be great. But hopefully this will be a fruitful place to hang out and exchange ideas with all you wonderful and talented people.....and get help when needed too.

Cheers

I agree with this statement and I happen to get Nick's last post before it was deleted in 5min flat.

I'd like to post it. If this offends Nick just let me know and I'll edit the post.

Cheers,

Jose


Northernsounds was, for me, the best sampling forum around. I learned alot here and was also allowed quite a bit of freedom. I think it was quite a magical community. The thing is, I have admitted being wrong about many things over the past few years, as have many others here. How many times have I made an as$ of myself? But the moderators of NS are never wrong and it is this attitude that has driven away some of the most accomplished members of NS. I think that as soon as NS became a source of income for it's creators, it began a slow path to destruction. They need to make a living, so there is no real solution. But believe me when I tell you that information is shaped by the advertisers and by the overly-stubborn management. They don't negotiate with terrorists. And you are all terrorists. That's why everyone is running. Soon to be deleted and banned, I guess. -Nick Phoenix

synergy543
05-09-2005, 09:15 PM
Thanks Jose, I thought I was drunk and seeing things....

http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=346

Stefan Podell
05-09-2005, 09:18 PM
Maybe I'll go quote that post of Nick's, now that we have the text of it here. Good job saving it, Jose! (And good job writing it, Nick!)

- Stefan

banquo
05-10-2005, 06:49 AM
I'd just like to say that I think that KevinKuai's "One 50th of a dollar" comment was quite excellent.

MozillaUser
05-10-2005, 11:01 AM
In the last deleted thread, someone even offered himself to pay for the E/W archives. He never got an answer, and the whole thread was deleted as I was enjoying reading it :-)
Folks, the whole idea behind the last Orwellian actions is: "we do anything to stop other companies even know that E/W left. They could follow this example, God forbid!"
Of course, there are lots of people outside who read that forum and they understood exactly why the admins are doing all that. It was unmistakeable. That forum is going down anyway, at light's speed.
But there's something - no matter how small - that I could do about it. I posted a "negative link" to that forum on my own homepage. if you use IE, you can visit it at http://home.arcor.de/dan.aldea . You all could do that as well if you feel like. As far as I know, my example has been followed already by some.
Be well everybody, enjoy this forum.
MozillaUser

Waywyn
05-10-2005, 11:07 AM
i think it was not deleted, but just moved to the off topic section ...

i would really raise my hand to ban bela from NS because he was ignoring rules chalk made up :D he was attacking scottnorma personally for being simon ravn and won't believe he isn't.

remember, paying prevents off banning :)

josejherring
05-10-2005, 01:45 PM
Maybe I'll go quote that post of Nick's, now that we have the text of it here. Good job saving it, Jose! (And good job writing it, Nick!)

- Stefan

No problem. I almost lost it. I was replying and as I hit the submitt button I got the message that the topic was no longer available. I just couldn't bear to lose it so I hit the back browser and copied it. I just wanted to hear Nick's or Dougs side of it since they were being very quite and Papa was doing all the talking.

Hardy Heern
05-10-2005, 02:03 PM
Well it finally happened I got banned at NS for Questioning on Garritan's Group buy the rules on group buys and how they only allow some to happen at certain times so as to not have any monopolize the market. Looks like I'll be hanging out here and at VI alot more! :)

I've only just heard this Evan. I'm shocked that they could ban such a seemingly moderate young guy. Are they losing it over there?

Still onwards, and upwards!

Regards

Frank

KevinKauai
05-10-2005, 03:28 PM
I'm afraid if anyone quotes any comments from the folks who run this Forum on NorthernSounds that will be some sort of automatic grounds for banning. Apprently, someone there on NS does not consider "the split" to have been amicable at all (protestations to the contrary).

Apropos nothing: Has anyone noticed how many times PaPa (Mark) has said that the thread is a "waist of time". (At first, I was thinking that might be a slam on my increasing belt size, but he's said it more than once!) I'm surprised at the number of run-on sentences and other rather obvious grammatical shortcomings that the "leader" of that place has exhibited.

While on the one hand saying that this discussion is fruitless, he has also closed, re-opened, moved and (apparently) is saying he will close the thread again. Where there's smoke there's fire!


at least .. that's another 1/50th of a buck from me ... KevinKauai :confused:

Late word from the dictator: "We've had enough we are not going to entertain this thread anymore." [thread closed again!]

chocothrax
05-10-2005, 03:43 PM
I always wondered if English was his first language.

MozillaUser
05-10-2005, 04:13 PM
Kevin, if he's a native English speaker or not, that's not the real issue. As you observed, the issue is WHAT he does, not the correctness of his grammatics.
At this point, I would like to gently disagree with Nick: no, the trouble didn't start when they started doing it for money. The trouble existed much longer before that, and not only the moderators are guilty. At least, they behave like they do for a reason: money. But the whole mob around...what they say, and even what they don't say, 'cause even silence can speak sometimes... I wonder if they can ever look at the mirror and be pleased with what they see. I have seen there so deep character deficiencies, that honestly, I'm glad I'm no part of that forum. Thru lucky fate, we have this forum here. Please don't let it become a NS-like forum. In rest...even speaking about NS is really a WAIST ;-) of time, let them be like they are, let this forum be different. After all, everyone has the forum he deserves to have.
best--
MozillaUser

STEELHED
05-10-2005, 05:15 PM
HI, I'm Steelhed from Northern Sounds.. I've been a member over there for about three years... And I'll be honest, I wasn't sure what this was all about, and I was starting to side with the moderators over there, even though I witnessed some of the most childish crap I've ever seen on that board, By Developers, as well as the Admins and some members... This is a very sad day for me as I've steered many people to that site as a place of maturity and commradery(SP) concerning the music world.... It was beginning to appear as if the members were having a field day all the sudden, and mutiny ensued.... So, before I developed an attitude towards the members, I thought I'd come here and make sure I knew the facts a little better... I honestly did not understand until I came here and read the real reasons why EWSO left, or was Excommunicated.... I understand now, and am a little ashamed because I started getting down on a few of the members... But, I think I understand now... I don't know what they were asking for, and I don't care, but a little of the truth on the matter from NS would have been beneficial for them, Rather than sidestep the reason this divorce happened... I mean, Business is business, but the way it was handled over there, and some of the guys from BellaD's posts, were nothing more than the "Take that!" attitude..... I will continue to surf that site as I have done for 3 years, but this certainly has left a cloud on my opinion of that site and its admins... I will, Since I'm registered here now, also surf this site/forums if I'm welcome.... I think that NS have hurt themselves greatly over this issue, Not just because of the greed, But the way the discussion was conducted... Being someone having a business sense, I would have much rather taken a hit to keep my community happy... The members there are smarter than the average bear by far, and they should have expected this, and im sure they did, It was a bad business decision... It's not like offering a group buy is violating the anti-trust law....

amo
05-10-2005, 05:22 PM
Of course you're welcome !
Regards,

Amaury

Doug Rogers
05-10-2005, 06:16 PM
We welcome anyone who is respectful of other opinions.

- Doug

Mike Greene
05-10-2005, 10:39 PM
We welcome anyone who is respectful of other opinions.

- Doug
That would be easier if everyone else's opinions weren't so idiotic! :D

- Mike Greene

KevinKauai
05-10-2005, 10:45 PM
Sad. I think PaPa/Mark is doing his own version of a meltdown. He took a relatively "peace-making" post by Sharmy ( here: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34418 ) and turned it into another misunderstanding of his own points!

User "Towering Jerk' then tried to straighten out the matter (quote: " Your apearances for a long time now allways end up with "we had enough", "we are fed up"...") and PaPa/Mike had another jab at the "alias" folk and a mild amount of non-sequiturs.

Then CLOSED IT!

It might be hilarious if it wasn't so sad! :confused:

Waywyn
05-11-2005, 12:30 AM
all the behavior of chalk or mark simon of how many users he really has is unsureness.

by just closing, reopening, getting full posts into the wrong mouth and deleting, editing he completely lost control over his own sinking ship.

he tries to close holes on the ships body but didn't see that he has a drill in his other hand ...

he has not the power to argue gently neither is he prepared and ready for discussion. he is just trying to resolve everything with (moderator) violence. banning, deleting, editing whatever or just ignoring something.

and i all the time say that again:
if he would care equal about devs, users etc, then he would also ban mr bela donna, because he definitely broke some rules of the forum by attacking scottnorma so heavily and personal!

synergy543
05-11-2005, 12:40 AM
Looks like Papa's not the only one going into meltdown.

Lincoln Flesch was just "unfleshed" and underneath was BelaD green...

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=12699#12699

STEELHED
05-11-2005, 07:41 AM
Ohhh, Thats funny!! Thats Rich... I could almost see Alans face blushing..LoL I think I'll be staying here from now on... This link should be posted on NS, But I know thats only stooping to their level, So I won't, But it's funnier than hell!

Doug Rogers
05-11-2005, 04:28 PM
We don't want to act like NS, closing every thread they don't like, but we don't want to give them any more publicity either, so we're closing this and the other NS thread.

It's time to discuss more positive subjects.

- Doug