How to insert SMTPE Code strips on a video

[Kayamb]

Hi everyone!

I've got a video (quicktime), and want to compose the soundtrack for it. Do you know a way (preferrably freeware) to add the black strips with the SMTPE code on the video?

Cheers!

[LEX]

Not that I am aware of.

Why not just set the start of the project at 1 hour, start your video there and use your timedisplay window for your timecode.

LEX

[Clockworker]

For a SMTPE, you'll need a MTC, or MIDI Sync with a ''machine'' (like MOTU midi timepiece)
and you need to give one track for the time code. PM me for much information... if you want some! :)

[shnurgle]

Why do people start their projects at 1 hour 00 minutes 00 seconds 01 frame? why not at zero hour? My logic clock was defult set at 1 hour too. why is that?

[Clockworker]

Maybe for recording tape? :o I dunno? lol seriously!

[Daryl]

To give a good pre-roll for all the machines to lock up?

D

[Dr.Quest]

In the post world picture start is always at 1 hour so you have a count down from 59:52:00 with a sync pop at 59:58:00 two seconds before picture start. It used to take a while for machines to get up to sync speed for sound to picture lock up and it's also used to keep things consistent. In the old days before digital picture there was a lock up code on the tape. If you start the picture at zero you would have no pre roll time as it would go to a negative number and most sync machine would freak out. Also, in long format movies, the show was divided into roughly 22 minute reels. Reel one would start picture at 1 hour, reel 2 at 2 hour, reel 3 at 3 hour, etc. that way you always knew what reel you were working on.
Most young guys doing sound design or music don't seem to even know what a 2 pop is or what it's for. With digital picture it's not as much of a problem as it once was but long format films always use the same smpte code style as the old days for good reason.
Cheers,
J

[dach]

Hi everyone!

I've got a video (quicktime), and want to compose the soundtrack for it. Do you know a way (preferrably freeware) to add the black strips with the SMTPE code on the video?

Cheers!

If you can, I'd work in the box. If you really want to slave to time code you'll need to spit out the video to a deck while using something like a MTPAV for TC generation to one of the hifi tracks, the existing dialog & audio to the other and something like a Horita TG50 for window burn... and then you'll need to slave your computer to the tape. The advice already given is good and you probably don't need the tc or window burn unless you are just spotting for a lot of heavy sound design.

hope this helps

[LEX]

In the post world picture start is always at 1 hour so you have a count down from 59:52:00 with a sync pop at 59:58:00 two seconds before picture start. It used to take a while for machines to get up to sync speed for sound to picture lock up and it's also used to keep things consistent. In the old days before digital picture there was a lock up code on the tape. If you start the picture at zero you would have no pre roll time as it would go to a negative number and most sync machine would freak out. Also, in long format movies, the show was divided into roughly 22 minute reels. Reel one would start picture at 1 hour, reel 2 at 2 hour, reel 3 at 3 hour, etc. that way you always knew what reel you were working on.
Most young guys doing sound design or music don't seem to even know what a 2 pop is or what it's for. With digital picture it's not as much of a problem as it once was but long format films always use the same smpte code style as the old days for good reason.
Cheers,
J

Sync pop of 59:58:00 is for TV, 1:00:06:00 is for film.
Starting of the hour for preroll, and easy to keep track of multiple reels.
Insead of zero hour, calling it Reel 1, the hour is the reel number.
Reel 5 is 5:00:00:00.
Reel breaks are for Film only, that is if the film is going be a theatrical or not.
Because a 35mm project can't run more than 2000 feet (roughly 22 minutes) that is why it is broken up.
If it is going to DVD, or TV reel breaks are not needed.

Don't forget the tail pop, which is the most forgotten. 2 seconds after last frame of picture.
just because you have a 2 pop, that still doesn't ensure sync, unless you check the end and see if it is in sync.
If it isn't then you will know, probably a frame rate drift.

LEX

[LEX]

Putting a window burnin doesn't require all this extra machine stuff.

If you have a QT video, which you do have you can buy software that will do it.

Sony's Vegas will let you put a window burn into a QT video.
Finalcut on a MAC will also.

All you need to do is import the video into either, setup a SMPTE window with your TC start and export the video.

No need for all this extra gear, expensive too.
As long as you have a 2 pop, you can be sure of the start time, or just shuttle through to the First Frame of picture, and set your start time there.

Vegas for PC is only 500 bucks. The Horeta is much more. You don't even need a deck anymore.

LEX

[Dr.Quest]

Sync pop of 59:58:00 is for TV, 1:00:06:00 is for film.
Starting of the hour for preroll, and easy to keep track of multiple reels.
Insead of zero hour, calling it Reel 1, the hour is the reel number.
Reel 5 is 5:00:00:00.
Reel breaks are for Film only, that is if the film is going be a theatrical or not.
Because a 35mm project can't run more than 2000 feet (roughly 22 minutes) that is why it is broken up.
If it is going to DVD, or TV reel breaks are not needed.

Don't forget the tail pop, which is the most forgotten. 2 seconds after last frame of picture.
just because you have a 2 pop, that still doesn't ensure sync, unless you check the end and see if it is in sync.
If it isn't then you will know, probably a frame rate drift.

LEX

Yes, of course this is what it is all about but it's way more info then our friend needed so I posted what I did. I still do reel break downs for long form projects even if it's for DVD because I don't like dealing with picture length longer then 30 minutes. It's too unweildy. Although now that I'm running my new G5 dual Core Picture just sails along smooth as butter.
Cheers,
J

[LEX]

Same here. I like working in smaller reels.

The only time where that doesn't seem to be the case is TV.
Almost all the DVD stuff I do is broken into reels anyway.

LEX

[dach]

Didn't know they had that in software now... I've had the Horita for 15+ years but my days of deck slaving have been long gone... guess I probably need to ebay it...

[LEX]

It has been in since Final Cut 2, and Vegas version 2 for the last 5 years.
Plus you can change the size, position and font of the code.
LEX

[landford]

Hey Lex!

I still use the ole' FUSE card which requires Motion JPEG-A codec. I have a client next week doing a project for ESPN and my video editor did not put a window burn in the video. The client wants two VO artists to watch picture and voice this project. My question is if I get someone to run my QTs through Final cut and add window burn is it going to screw with my codec in anyway and also how long will it take an average 1.0GHZ G4 to re-export with the window burn a 1 hour show?

Thanks in advance- (sorry for jumping in this thread)
-Tom

[LEX]

No, but you need to make sure that you export MJPEG-A and the correct frame rate.

FC defaults to 29.97 DF.
TC upper left.

Render may take 1 to 2 hours. I'd test a small section first.

LEX

[landford]

Thanks.

[shnurgle]

thanks, so what's a two-pop?
I'm new to the game and whenever I score film it's digitized as QT. When I dump it into logic I just use logic's SMPTE clock as a time reference, no window burn, no smpte sync. I deliver the audio files to the sound mixer who syncs it. The only sync consideration I face with this technique is making sure my sample rate is the same as th sound editor's. As far as synching goes, it's merely a question of lining up the start point correctly. Usually, I'll try to be there for that portion of the final dub, just to make sure the mixer doesn't get too "creative" with that choice.

Is it wrong that i don't use window burn, 2-pop, or smpte sync techniques? Do you all hate me because of this? Do you smell that?

[Kayamb]

Hi all, and thx for the the good hints.

Wow, I am just starting in scoring for video. To be exact, I am just practising at the moment. And I didn't expect that you would need all this gear/software to manage the syncing.

I will keep investigating the different options, but if anyone still has good ideas to suggest about how to simply sync the video (digital, that is mpg, mov, etc.) inside the sequencer, using plugins, or other tricks.

Cheers all!

[Dr.Quest]

I will keep investigating the different options, but if anyone still has good ideas to suggest about how to simply sync the video (digital, that is mpg, mov, etc.) inside the sequencer, using plugins, or other tricks.

Cheers all!

There is nothing really to think about here. You import the movie to your sequencer of choice. Put some markers in the timeline if you need to spot particular scenes. Then start playing along to picture.
Sync is automatic. It's only when you are exporting audio to send to someone else that you have to worry about them syncing to what you did. But just to practice to picture...just go for it.
Cheers,
Jamie

[LEX]

"thanks, so what's a two-pop? "

A 2-pop is an audio and video reference point.
Everyone has seen the Academy leader, from "Picture Start< counting down from 8, with the last frame being "2".
A 1k, 1frame audio "pop" is put there to ensure proper video/audio sync.
(You may also see it start from 11, leading to 3, which is considered Academy leader, and SMPTE leader starts with 8)
Academy counts in Film Frames, and SMPTE counts in seconds.
2 pop happens 2 seconds before First Frame of picture (8 seconds from the top, or picture start header.)

THIS IS A MUST. As your music will be mixed by someone who does not know it, if it isn't in sync, then all your work is out the window.

TAIL POP, also a MUST. Though I have seen more and more, no tail pops on the video, it is needed.
The Tail pop occurs 2 seconds after last frame of action (LFOA). Usually there will be a visual white hole in the center of the black.
This is needed to ensure the whole reel is in sync from beginning to end.
AS there are multiple frame rates, sample rates, and editors (SFX, Foley, Dialog, Music) any one of them can be wrong creating an out of sync reel.
It is easier to see SFX, Dialog and Foley out of sync and there is an "on screen reference".
This isn't the case with Music.
Your perfect hits in your system won't be perfect if your Frame Rate is wrong. If you are at 30FPS in your system and everything is in sync, but you deliver it to that stage which is running at 29.97 NDF, it will not be.
IT WILL DRIFT. Hense the need for a 2pop and tail pop. With the digital world, it can very easily be visually varified.

"As far as synching goes, it's merely a question of lining up the start point correctly."
No. When viewing with a director, timing misses will be noticed on the stage by him.
Then it is your ass, as you are costing anywhere from 700 to 1200 dollars an hour trying to figure out why it isn't syncing like it did at your studio.
Maybe this isn't a big deal for young directors and editors. But the experience ones will know. And it is a direct reflection of your knowledge of composing for film. It smells inexperience.

Short cues, there will be little drift. Long cues, you'll see it in a few minutes. By the end of a 5 minute cue, it is now short.

"When I dump it into logic I just use logic's SMPTE clock as a time reference, no window burn, no smpte sync."
Thats fine, but you'll never see that in the professional world. When you do, and its out its on you.
It is basically free wheeling. Since you are dealing with "a Sound Editor", I am sure this is exceptable as it isn't a high profile deal. AS there is usually 4 to 5.
When you are dealing with it, then you better hire a music editor and have everything ready and "in sync" before you deliver it. They are not going to do it on the stage, and if you "hand in" Audio Files only it will get kicked back.
This is by far the worst thing you can do as a composer and the least professional.
Unless the director is your brother, your lack of proper delivery will only cost you in the future.

[B]"he only sync consideration I face with this technique is making sure my sample rate is the same as th sound editor's."
Sure, but if you are working in 30FPS and the stage is at 29.97, you have drift.
If you are working at 29.97NDF, but the stage it working at 29.97NDF Pulldown, you have drift. Also, many stages work in 48kpulldown, and have the picture delivered at 30FPS, then pulled down.
So you just pop your picture in and go without those considerations, you have drift.
10 minutes into the reel, and the start of 1m10 is now 1/2 second out.

just to make sure the mixer doesn't get too "creative" with that choice.
How can he get too creative if the cue has a start time?

Sync is automatic.
This is the wrong way to think. Sorry. Yes, sync is automatic in "YOUR SYSTEM".
It isn't in every other system it goes to.
If you start Reel 5 at zero hour, then it itsn't automatic.
As 5m1 should start at 5:01:12:15, but yours starts at 00:01:12:15. That isn't sync.
Practice is practice. If you are practicing and have sync, why not practice that too.

Your system needs to match the deliver specs to the frame before you deliver it.

Do you all hate me because of this? Do you smell that?
Not at all. It works now, for the little things now. But all in all it is going to bite you in the ass in the end.
Production accounting is more and more holding final payment as more and more composers are costing them stage time with incorrect, and wrong delivery.
And are charging the lost stage time back to the composer.
You can't complete the final mix without the music. Everything needs to be balanced together. So if they owe you 10 grand, and the stage rate is 1000 per hour and they lose 10 hours having to mess around with your music, you won't get paid.

Sure, go ahead and sue. You'll be black balled so fast your head will spin. Unless you are an A+ list composer. But if you were, then none of this would ever be an issue.
Remember, all these producers, directors, Post Sup's, Music Sup's all know each other and all call each other.
If you pissed one of them off, it doesn't matter how good you are, you won't get hired.
Burned bridges go far. Burning 2 bridges means the fire multiples 26 times.

There is an A+list composer I know who got arrogant, and burnt a pretty big bridge.
Yes, he is still working on 8 figure movies. But he was already the A+list composer.
So down the line his name was brought up to a director, who knew the other director and wasn't hired for the gig.

Arrogance goes nowhere. Humility goes much further.

LEX

[Dr.Quest]

"thanks, so what's a two-pop? "



Sync is automatic.
This is the wrong way to think. Sorry. Yes, sync is automatic in "YOUR SYSTEM".
It isn't in every other system it goes to.
If you start Reel 5 at zero hour, then it itsn't automatic.
As 5m1 should start at 5:01:12:15, but yours starts at 00:01:12:15. That isn't sync.
Practice is practice. If you are practicing and have sync, why not practice that too.
LEX

This is out of context. I said it was automatic on his system and that it wouldn't be on any other without reference. He was talking about taking a movie to practice composing to.
Don't misquote me, thank you. Yes, be sure to practice safe sync. It's how the business works.
J

[LEX]

I didn't.

"Practice is practice. If you are practicing and have sync, why not practice that too."

So it isn't out of context.

People will read that, and think "Sync is automatic". That is what they will remember.
That is why I said it is the wrong way to think.

LEX

[PaulR]

thanks, so what's a two-pop?
I'm new to the game and whenever I score film it's digitized as QT. When I dump it into logic I just use logic's SMPTE clock as a time reference, no window burn, no smpte sync. I deliver the audio files to the sound mixer who syncs it. The only sync consideration I face with this technique is making sure my sample rate is the same as th sound editor's. As far as synching goes, it's merely a question of lining up the start point correctly. Usually, I'll try to be there for that portion of the final dub, just to make sure the mixer doesn't get too "creative" with that choice.

Is it wrong that i don't use window burn, 2-pop, or smpte sync techniques? Do you all hate me because of this? Do you smell that?

If you haven't done already - check this out Miles. It may be useful to you - or it may not. :)

http://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/logicVideoEds

[shnurgle]

"thanks, so what's a two-pop? "

A 2-pop is an audio and video reference point.
Everyone has seen the Academy leader, from "Picture Start< counting down from 8, with the last frame being "2".
A 1k, 1frame audio "pop" is put there to ensure proper video/audio sync.
(You may also see it start from 11, leading to 3, which is considered Academy leader, and SMPTE leader starts with 8)
Academy counts in Film Frames, and SMPTE counts in seconds.
2 pop happens 2 seconds before First Frame of picture (8 seconds from the top, or picture start header.)

THIS IS A MUST. As your music will be mixed by someone who does not know it, if it isn't in sync, then all your work is out the window.

TAIL POP, also a MUST. Though I have seen more and more, no tail pops on the video, it is needed.
The Tail pop occurs 2 seconds after last frame of action (LFOA). Usually there will be a visual white hole in the center of the black.
This is needed to ensure the whole reel is in sync from beginning to end.
AS there are multiple frame rates, sample rates, and editors (SFX, Foley, Dialog, Music) any one of them can be wrong creating an out of sync reel.
It is easier to see SFX, Dialog and Foley out of sync and there is an "on screen reference".
This isn't the case with Music.
Your perfect hits in your system won't be perfect if your Frame Rate is wrong. If you are at 30FPS in your system and everything is in sync, but you deliver it to that stage which is running at 29.97 NDF, it will not be.
IT WILL DRIFT. Hense the need for a 2pop and tail pop. With the digital world, it can very easily be visually varified.

"As far as synching goes, it's merely a question of lining up the start point correctly."
No. When viewing with a director, timing misses will be noticed on the stage by him.
Then it is your ass, as you are costing anywhere from 700 to 1200 dollars an hour trying to figure out why it isn't syncing like it did at your studio.
Maybe this isn't a big deal for young directors and editors. But the experience ones will know. And it is a direct reflection of your knowledge of composing for film. It smells inexperience.

Short cues, there will be little drift. Long cues, you'll see it in a few minutes. By the end of a 5 minute cue, it is now short.

"When I dump it into logic I just use logic's SMPTE clock as a time reference, no window burn, no smpte sync."
Thats fine, but you'll never see that in the professional world. When you do, and its out its on you.
It is basically free wheeling. Since you are dealing with "a Sound Editor", I am sure this is exceptable as it isn't a high profile deal. AS there is usually 4 to 5.
When you are dealing with it, then you better hire a music editor and have everything ready and "in sync" before you deliver it. They are not going to do it on the stage, and if you "hand in" Audio Files only it will get kicked back.
This is by far the worst thing you can do as a composer and the least professional.
Unless the director is your brother, your lack of proper delivery will only cost you in the future.

[B]"he only sync consideration I face with this technique is making sure my sample rate is the same as th sound editor's."
Sure, but if you are working in 30FPS and the stage is at 29.97, you have drift.
If you are working at 29.97NDF, but the stage it working at 29.97NDF Pulldown, you have drift. Also, many stages work in 48kpulldown, and have the picture delivered at 30FPS, then pulled down.
So you just pop your picture in and go without those considerations, you have drift.
10 minutes into the reel, and the start of 1m10 is now 1/2 second out.

just to make sure the mixer doesn't get too "creative" with that choice.
How can he get too creative if the cue has a start time?

Sync is automatic.
This is the wrong way to think. Sorry. Yes, sync is automatic in "YOUR SYSTEM".
It isn't in every other system it goes to.
If you start Reel 5 at zero hour, then it itsn't automatic.
As 5m1 should start at 5:01:12:15, but yours starts at 00:01:12:15. That isn't sync.
Practice is practice. If you are practicing and have sync, why not practice that too.

Your system needs to match the deliver specs to the frame before you deliver it.

Do you all hate me because of this? Do you smell that?
Not at all. It works now, for the little things now. But all in all it is going to bite you in the ass in the end.
Production accounting is more and more holding final payment as more and more composers are costing them stage time with incorrect, and wrong delivery.
And are charging the lost stage time back to the composer.
You can't complete the final mix without the music. Everything needs to be balanced together. So if they owe you 10 grand, and the stage rate is 1000 per hour and they lose 10 hours having to mess around with your music, you won't get paid.

Sure, go ahead and sue. You'll be black balled so fast your head will spin. Unless you are an A+ list composer. But if you were, then none of this would ever be an issue.
Remember, all these producers, directors, Post Sup's, Music Sup's all know each other and all call each other.
If you pissed one of them off, it doesn't matter how good you are, you won't get hired.
Burned bridges go far. Burning 2 bridges means the fire multiples 26 times.

There is an A+list composer I know who got arrogant, and burnt a pretty big bridge.
Yes, he is still working on 8 figure movies. But he was already the A+list composer.
So down the line his name was brought up to a director, who knew the other director and wasn't hired for the gig.

Arrogance goes nowhere. Humility goes much further.

LEX

LOL! Oh...mercy.

Well Lex, you really won over my respect with that one! :rolleyes:

While I think I may have found one or two pieces of actual information in that post, I can't be sure because of all the arrogant, embittered, insults.

Just think, with the amount of words you wrote, you could have actually explained some of the technical terms, instead of ranting about how "unprofessional" I am.

Arrogance goes nowhere. Humility goes much further.
I agree with that. Clearly, you don't.

[LEX]

I wasn't attacking you dude at all.

Maybe I should explain. The way you are working is they way alot of people work, which in the long run leads to trouble when you start working with different clients and that have difference demands.

If it works for you great, I was just trying to shed some light on pitfalls that are around the corner as I see it all the time.

It just so happened that your post had the most common ways of doing things, so it was easier to quote.

Obviously, you think everything I write is an insult to you. Yet I never quoted your name, just the words. If you look a little bit past yourself and there isn't anything there insulting.
Whether you find the information here good or not, it wasn't "Just for you".
Popular misconceptions, and lack of knowledge can get you in trouble. I was just trying to educated.

Being professional here. No one here is my "client". I see no arrogance in my post.
It is no wonder people just don't like commenting here as the "backlash for backlash" sake is over the top.
You specifically said you were "new to the game".
So is this who you react to everyone who tries to give you some information?

If my information bothers you so much, then don't read them. I am not posting "just for you"

"I agree with that. Clearly, you don't."
Obviouly you don't know what arrogance is. How is posting information, and experiences arrogant?

Now on to more important things.

LEX

[shnurgle]

DELETED**
They say hindsight's 20/20. After re-reading, I realize I overreacted. Apologies.

[LEX]

Wow, looks like you are incredibly sensitive.

I don't need to stoop to name calling. I merely stated points. If you have a hard time with being corrected or informed that's your problem.
If you can learn sync over a weekend, then why haven't you?

You are not my client. Nor do I need to treat you as one.
What ever your problem is, let it go.

LEX