Help with routing VePRO and PLAY. Please Help, Im very lost

[hudson380]

Hi everyone,
I just recently downloaded and installed the demo version of Vienna Ensemble Pro to my Windows 7 PC. However, I am having a very difficult time getting the routing setup correctly in Ableton LIVE. Im trying to use PLAY in VePRO connected to Ableton. Ive read the instructions manuals and watched the video tutorials and am still having trouble.:confused:

I will try to explain the situation as best I can. Here is what is happening:
- I start up a VePRO 64bit Server application.

- I then load up Ableton LIVE

- I create a midi track in Ableton and open up an instance of the VePRO VST plugin. I then connect up to VePRO server app and it opens up a VePRO application window. Connection is successful.

- I leave the Master bus instance in VePRO alone.

- I then create a new VSTi instance of East West PLAY in VE Pro. This is set to "ALL" on both the midi port and midi channel in VePro. I then add an instrument patch(piano) inside of the PLAY instance in VePro and set that instrument to channel 1 in PLAY.

- I then create a new MIDI track in Ableton and set the output to "VE Pro 1 - 1." Works brilliantly, audio gets spit back into Ableton via the Instrument Track I've got the VePro plug-in on. I then load another instrument patch(trumpet) in channel 2 of PLAY, create another MIDI track in Ableton and set output to "VE Pro 1 - 2". Again, works great, audio coming through the Instrument Track in Ableton separately from the piano.

Here is where the problem starts:
- Now I create a new VSTi instance of PLAY in VePro (set to "ALL" on both the midi port and midi channel) and load an instrument patch(drums) set to Channel 1 in PLAY.

- I create a new midi track in Ableton and set the output to "VE Pro 1 - 1." But when I play through the latest midi track (aimed toward VePRO) I get not only the new instance of PLAY(drums) channel 1 sound, but also the original PLAY channel 1 sound(piano) playing at the same time.

So it seems the midi routing I have going is not discrete/separating the two. I cant figure out how to setup multiple instance of PLAY in VePRO so that they are played separately on each midi track I create in Ableton.

I have both instances of PLAY in VePRO set to ALL for the midi port and the midi channel. I have tried changing these values in VePRO and then tried linking them up in Ableton but that does not work either.
What am I doing wrong? Is it even possible to load more than one instance of PLAY in VePRO and have them play separately through a DAW? or do I have to open an separate instance of VEPRO for every instance of PLAY I want to use?
A lot of this stuff is new for me as Im still learning as I go so Im sure Im just missing something, problem is I have no idea what that is.
I am completely lost here and really need some help with this. I can see the potential with this software if I can just get it to work. Im hoping I can do that before the 30 day demo expires.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[derAbgang]

Although I don't know Ableton, it sounds like you have "midi input echo" activated--this sends incoming midi data to all receiving ports which, in your case is both instances of Play inside of VEP ...

just a guess. To test, change the second instance of Play to (drums) to channel 2 and make sure your midi controller sends on channel 2.

Hope that helps.

David

[aptmusic9]

- I then create a new VSTi instance of East West PLAY in VE Pro. This is set to "ALL" on both the midi port and midi channel in VePro.

This is the problem. Each track inside VEP needs to be assigned to its own individual channel. The setting inside play should be set to omni.

In my case, I use 4 midi ports, that each have their own 16 channels, allowing me to have 64 unique instruments that all have their own dedicated midi track.

[hudson380]

This is the problem. Each track inside VEP needs to be assigned to its own individual channel. The setting inside play should be set to omni.

In my case, I use 4 midi ports, that each have their own 16 channels, allowing me to have 64 unique instruments that all have their own dedicated midi track.


Hello again aptmusic9 :)

I just tried what you recommended and it seemed to work.
I opened 2 instances of PLAY in VePRO, each with 1 patch loaded set to Omni, and the instances of PLAY set to channel 1 and 2 respectively.
They I set the routing on my Ableton midi tracks to VePRO 1 - 1 and VePRO 1 - 2 respectively. They play seperately now.
However, I found that if I do it this way it only allows me to load 1 instrument patch per instance of PLAY. It doesnt allow me to add multiple instrument patches to one instance of PLAY, each to their own channel, as I have done in the past without VePRO.
If this is the case......how can I load up say a violin with 5 different playing style patches?(exp. stac, leg, marc, pizz)? Do I have to create a separate PLAY instance for each violin playing style patch? It seems like doing so would take up all 16 channels real quick in VePRO....

Also, I am confused by what you mean when you say "In my case, I use 4 midi ports, that each have their own 16 channels, allowing me to have 64 unique instruments that all have their own dedicated midi track"
Can you clarify?

Thanks again for the help good sir.

[hudson380]

Although I don't know Ableton, it sounds like you have "midi input echo" activated--this sends incoming midi data to all receiving ports which, in your case is both instances of Play inside of VEP ...

just a guess. To test, change the second instance of Play to (drums) to channel 2 and make sure your midi controller sends on channel 2.

Hope that helps.

David

Thanks for the reply...
Is midi input echo a setting in VePRO?

[aptmusic9]

if you are getting an echo or something you've got something still receiving on omni.

What you describe is using PLAY as a "multi-timbral" plugin. If you want to do this, you'll need to dedicate an entire midi port to play. I emphasize the word port, and not channel, because these are easily confused. The PLAY instance will recieve all 16 midi channels simultaneously for that port. Then, in the PLAY GUI you will decide which instrument receives on what channel. For example, your pizzicato will be set to midi channel 6, and therefore it will ignore data coming in on channel 1, which you've assigned to legato or something etc.

In my case I'm using a VST3 version of VE PRO, which allows for i think 16 midi ports. AU on the mac is limited to a single port. I dont remember how many ports VST supports. If VST only supports 1 port, then you would be restricted to a single instance of play with 16 instruments inside =(

[derAbgang]

Thanks for the reply...
Is midi input echo a setting in VePRO?

Should be in Ableton ... at any rate, aptmusic9 described the differences between port and channel which also sounds like you need to clarify. You need to make sure each instance of Play inside VEP is represented as a separate port then each instance of Play can function as a multi-timbral midi instrument.

For example:

Addressing Play instance #1
track1 (port:1;channel:1) => VEP (port:1;channel:1;patch:W)
track2 (port:1;channel:2) => VEP (port:1;channel:2;patch:X)

Addressing Play instance #2
track3 (port:2;channel:1) => VEP (port:2;channel:1;patch:Y)
track4 (port:2;channel:2) => VEP (port:2;channel:2;patch:Z)

David

[hudson380]

if you are getting an echo or something you've got something still receiving on omni.

What you describe is using PLAY as a "multi-timbral" plugin. If you want to do this, you'll need to dedicate an entire midi port to play. I emphasize the word port, and not channel, because these are easily confused. The PLAY instance will recieve all 16 midi channels simultaneously for that port. Then, in the PLAY GUI you will decide which instrument receives on what channel. For example, your pizzicato will be set to midi channel 6, and therefore it will ignore data coming in on channel 1, which you've assigned to legato or something etc.

In my case I'm using a VST3 version of VE PRO, which allows for i think 16 midi ports. AU on the mac is limited to a single port. I dont remember how many ports VST supports. If VST only supports 1 port, then you would be restricted to a single instance of play with 16 instruments inside =(


thanks for the reply.
What is VST3? Not sure if I am using that or regular VST.

I think I must be using VST 2....Is there a way to figure out if I am using VST3? Ive looked at the .dll files in my VePRO directory and I only have "Vienna Ensemble Pro.dll and the Vienna Ensemble Pro 64bit.dll". Should there be a .dll file listed as VST3?

I called Ableton technical support and have been told that Ableton does not currently support VST3 :( So maybe that is the problem?

I have a screenshot of my DAW below. The screenshot is of Ableton with the "select midi output" drop down listed. As you can see, I only have "1 Vienna Ensemble Pro" output available. All other midi tracks in my project have to be routed to that in order to play out of that specific instance of VePRO. I do not have the option to select a Vienna Ensemble Pro 2, or 3, or 4 midi output in Ableton even if I setup one of the PLAY instances in VePRO as a different midi out.
Im not sure if this information is relevant or if I am making sense.:confused:....Im such a newb when it comes to this stuff.

thanks again for the info

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5173/5593147339_c70b2338ac_b.jpg

[aptmusic9]

Ya I guess this means you can eother have 1 big play instamce w 16 instruments insid or 16 play instames woth 1 instrument inside. If u need more, youll have to make another instance of vep for another 16 channels. Sry for typos im on a phone.

[hudson380]

Well, thats a bummer.
It sounds like Ableton is not able to allow me to use VE Pro how I want to use it since it does not support VST3.

Maybe I should try a demo of Cubase and see if I can figure it out. Ive never used Cubase before :(

I wish there was someway to get Ableton to work with VE PRO.

[aptmusic9]

It depends on how many instances u need. VEP can run quite a few server instances before getting unstable. I've run 8 fully loaded ones sucessfully. So In abelton that would allow you to have 8 x16 = 128 total midi channels.

[Daryl]

Well, thats a bummer.
It sounds like Ableton is not able to allow me to use VE Pro how I want to use it since it does not support VST3.


Correct. I'm currently using more instances than necessary, for ease of finding stuff, but theoretically I could put my whole template through one instance, if I wanted to.

D

[aptmusic9]

Correct. I'm currently using more instances than necessary, for ease of finding stuff, but theoretically I could put my whole template through one instance, if I wanted to.

D

good point. right now the restriction for VST3 is the 64 stereo outputs. Although VST3 has 128 midi channels, i don't want to load more than 64 instruments inside one instance or else I wouldnt have full routing flexibility (reverb, bussing inside cubase etc)

Although I haven't tested this, I think the performance should be better, in theory, if one used a single instance of VEP with lots of instruments inside instead of speading the instruments across several instances. You could therefore assign more threads to the single instance in VEP settings, and you would save the tiny bit of RAM required to add additional VEP instances.