Looking for good orchestration books

[BrianSzep]

Anybody have suggestions?

TIA,

-Brian

[deathadder79]

Anybody have suggestions?

TIA,

-Brian

I've worked out of Samuel Adler's "The Study of Orchestration" in college ... it's pretty good, but I wouldn't swear by it.

[JamesIII]

I second the Adler. If I'm not mistaken, his new edition also contains a set of CDs with audio examples of the examples within the book. Pretty useful if you're curious about how certain combinations sound together, etc...

James III

[bmiranda]

Another vote to Adler's "The Study of Orchestration". The CD set is excellent!

[BrianSzep]

Thanks everyone,

I'll check that one out. Anybody else have a suggestion?

-Brian

[Journeyman]

Brian,

If you decide to buy the Adler book and cd set, understand the following:

1) The cd's have to be purchased separately from the book, and
2) The best deal I've seen thus far is at Overstock.com believe it or not. That's where I got mine.

[BrianSzep]

Brian,

If you decide to buy the Adler book and cd set, understand the following:

1) The cd's have to be purchased separately from the book, and
2) The best deal I've seen thus far is at Overstock.com believe it or not. That's where I got mine.


Thanks for the info Journeyman. I found a Borders near where I live that has a copy in stock so I think I am going to check it out and see if its what I am looking for.

I'll check out overstock.com too.

-Brian

[deathadder79]

Speaking of Adler, anyone know where I can purchase the teacher's edition to the workbook (or any other means of checking the workbook answers)... it would be nice for those of us who aren't in that class anymore (or aren't going to be). Thanks!

[banquo]

heh. I saw the thread title and wandered in to recommend Adler's book but, eh, beat me to it!

[PaulJGreblick]

Does this book descibe in detail (or does any better book) the different trypes of articulations for each of the orchestral instruments?

Like, for example, I'm primarily a guitarist, but a good sample library would have several articulations of, say, a low "G" - one standard, one palm muted, one legato to and from the F and A both below and above.

I am familiar with theory and composing from college classes, but as far as the individual "what the violin/viola/trumpet" can do with the single notes (the various ways of playing them) - is there a source for this?

I am using Silver, and until I know what I can do (and obviously what I can't) I am not even going to consider upgrading just to have "more options for the F#" or something.

I guess I just want to get over the learning curve as fast as possible, and I did choose this over Garritan but do fully intend to fully upgrade, but want also my skills and knowledge to produce the "music" as much as having 46,000 articulation options.

A little off track...but am I asking the question understandably? Is there a source(s) where the different articulations are described in full, or relatively completely?

Thank you very, very much, and I hope I can contribute myself...if anyone needs guitar-advice, I've been playing for 23+ and teaching for 15+, so feel free to ask.

- Paul

[deathadder79]

Paul,

Yes, this book does that and more... the first sections describe generalities about each choir (string, woodwinds, etc.), then in depth for each instrument (violin, flute, etc.)... the CD contains passages from the literature that use each articulation or technique... so you'll know what col lengo is, how to write it in a score, and what it sounds like...

the other sections (and a few of the earlier) deal with how to write for an orchestra... how to bring out melody lines, fill in the background, combine instruments for different colors, etc.

It does skim over a few of the lesser used instruments, but.. I don't think any of those instruments are included in EWQLSO anyway.

[PaulJGreblick]

Thank you very much. I'm mostly a "pop/rock/new age" writer, and as I go more "traditional" it'd be nice to have reference as I don't have the ability to take classes, etc.

A little pricey for the books/CD's, but seems well worth it.

Thank you, again, you guys are awesome.

- Paul

[dewer]

A very good book is "Instrumentation/Orchestration" by Alfred Blatter. (Published by Longman Inc.) Quite complete, and includes lots of representative examples of each instrument (both orchestral and band instruments). Sections on orchestration, and also techniques of transcribing music, etc.

-Dave Ewer

[Briguy]

http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=481

[Andrew Sigler]

Paul,

The Adler is really the only way to go. It is quite expensive with the CD's, but being able to hear the examples is worth every penny. Otherwise, an orchestration book is an orchestration book. A 'cello does this, a flute can't do that....A good idea would be to take some of the smaller examples and enter them into your computer as they are written in the score to see (and hear) the difference between them. It's a good exercise.

Probably the best piece of advice if you want to get better at orchestration is score reading. Go get the scores and recordings for 3 pieces you like and take a week looking at each one. Listen and read the score once (or more, whatever) a night. You might be surprised how much better you can write for the instruments you've been casually observing. Of course, unless you are writing music that will be played by humans, it may not matter all that much if you write parts that are "unrealistic" Just go for it.

By the way, I'm a guitarist too.

-Andy

[Thomas]

Below is a list of different orchestration books, (in no particular order). I think I have almost all of them. However, I do not think books alone are the best way to learn to orchestrate. The best way is to systematically copy orchestration stragegies you like from great composers/orchestrators and gradually build up your own vocabulary of orchestral colors. That is, make a collection of your favorite orchestral segments (quite small, maybe just a few bars) which are sounds you may like to use yourself one day. Analyse them by describing the function of each instrument - a) melody b) harmony c) rhythm d) bass e) countermelody f) pedal, etc. An instrument can fulful more than one function at a time, and not all functions need be there. Note the range of each instrument in the example too. A long time ago I started putting such strategies on little white file cards (this was before computers) and I have several hundred now. Learn to copy this orchestration yourself, writing little examples. Gradually orchestration becomes your own language, and you have your own vocabulary of sounds which you can draw on to express whatever emotion you need to express. You may have to get a copy of the scores to begin doing this, but after a while you will find yourself doing it by listenening alone.

I think this method is a better way to start than orchestration books, because you immediately learn how to use instruments in combination, rather than focusing on too much detail of each instrument family at the outset, which can be quite tedious. Of course, you must sooner or later know enough to write intelligently for each instrument, avoiding what can't be played, staying in range, using ideal range, writing idiomatically for an instrument, etc - and the books are great for this. But try building up your own vocabulary as described above, and a lot of these things will take care of themselves if you stick to the range and function of each instrument for a while before experimenting with your own things.

Also, it is impossible to separate good orchestration from a thorough knowledge of harmony, counterpoint, form, voice-leading, and various other compositional disciplines. So work on all those too!

1. Artistic Orchestration - by Alan Belkin. The third volume in a free series of online books on musical technique. Other volumes cover Form , Counterpoint , and Harmony. (http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/personnel/Belkin/bk.o/)

2. The Guide to Midi Orchestration - by Paul Gilreath (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0964670526/musicpreparatioa/002-7820224-0212808)

3. The Study of Orchestration - by Samuel Adler. Companion workbook available. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/039397572X/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/002-7820224-0212808)

4. The Technique of Orchestration - by Kent Kennan and Donald Grantham. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0130771619/qid=1117469550/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7820224-0212808?v=glance&s=books)

5. Essential Dictionary of Orchestration - by Dave Black, Tom Gerou (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0739000217/musicpreparatioa)

6. Orchestration - by Cecil Forsyth and William Balcom (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486243834/musicpreparatioa)

7. Principles of Orchestration - by Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486212661/qid=1117469550/sr=5-)

8. Treatise on Instrumentation - by Richard Strauss, Hector Berlioz (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486269035/qid=1117469550/sr=5-)

9. Orchestration by Walter Piston (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393097404/qid=1117469550/sr=5-)

10. Instrumentation and Orchestration by Alfred Blatter (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0534251870/qid=1117469550/sr=5-)

11. Orchestration: A Practical Handbook By Joseph Wagner (http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/music/orchestration/practicalhandbook.shtml)

12 Rimsky-Korsakov's Principles of Orchestration By Peter Lawrence Alexander (http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/music/orchestration/principles.shtml)

13. "Traité de l'orchestration" en 4 volumes by Charles Koechlin (http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=516464188) (Some say these are the best orchestration book(s) of all, but they are in French. Anyone know of a translatation available?)

14. The Orchestra: A User's Manual. Not a book, but a very interesting website dedicated to orchestration. It has a ton of links to mp3's for each section and combinations. A good listening place to start, especially if you can't afford to get all the CD's that go with Adler. It also has movies of players playing each instrument, for reference on technique, etc. (http://www.mti.dmu.ac.uk/~ahugill/manual/intro.html)

[PaulJGreblick]

Andy/Thomas,

Thanks, guys, a million. This is a lot of good stuff. I've got the Adler books and CD on the way, and the only other way (before reading your guys posts) I could figure to "hit" the classical instrument-side was the way I learned to write and compose pop/rock 20 or so years ago - bylistening and figuring things out by ear. Not that it's bad, I've got an incredible ear, I've been told, and on the pop/rock side can usually when hearing a song for the first time, tell you the exact chords/structure/key, etc the guitar/bass is in, and it'd be nice to do that with symphonic areas as well - not to knock John Williams off the map, but a lot of the things that are coming to me musically aren't just guitar-bass-drums anymore and I need to learn in the quickest way possible how to transcribe what's "in here"..."out there".

Thanks, again, and feel free to offer all that you're inclined to. I'd rather have too much than too little! And even if you think something is "just the way you do it" - I'm sure there's thngs I can benefit from and hope I can reciprocate, of course, as well.

Talk to you all soon!

- Paul

[Trumpet Poppleton]

Can't let this go without bitching some about the Adler. It's the most carelessly produced piece of work of its kind I've ever seen: full of glaring mistakes. Get Walter Piston's "Orchestration" (Norton) or Kent Kennan & Donald Grantham's "The technique of orchestration", both miles better.

[matthew82475]

For what it's worth, here's my two cents:

I think the Adler book is a good intermediate level book which focuses primarily on performance/practicality issues. I hightly recommend it, mistakes and all. It also contains lots of good examples, especially from the world of dramatic music.

The Piston book is extremely academic. It is definately and advanced level book. However, there's less practical information and more theoretical and analytical information. So when it comes to knowing precisely what in instrument is capable of, this book will give you more information than you ever wanted to know. When in doubt, consult Piston!

The Kennan book, which I use the most, is a good beginner level book. It is neither as complete as the Piston book nor as practical as the Adler book, but it does have a great feature in the appendix. It has a summarized list of most instruments, their ranges, and transpositions. This is why I use it. The summary is not as accurate as Piston's descriptions, but it does give a quick view of the practical and common ranges. Kennan is a more conservative approach to orchestration. If you follow his advice, you can be pretty sure that even the most intermediate level community orchestra will be able to play what you've written.

I've never read the Rimsky-Korsakov book, so I can't judge, but I hear it's good.

Matt

[stevie wonders]

Hi Brian

There are three books that I have which seem to cover most of the bases(basses).
If you are interested in MIDI Orchestration, there is a good book by Paul Gilreath entitled,
"The Guide to MIDI Orchestration. It is published by Music Works, of Atlanta, Georgia. I believe it is in its 4th Edition, with each one containing little bits of new information, reviews of various software, interviews, etc.

Another one that I have is entitled "Instrumentation/Orchestration" by Alfred Blatter. In this book the author first introduces the characteristics of the instruments. For example, the technical characteristics, the timbre and coloristic characteristics of the orchestral instruments.The next part of this book, the author then reviews the practices and procedures of orchestration.This book is published by Schirmer Books, a Division of Macmillan, Inc. N.Y.

The last one that I have is simply entitled "Orchestration" by Cecil Forsyth. This author takes an approach that studies each of the instruments on its own. He is quite thorough in his study of each Orchestral Instrument. Other instruments, not generally used by an Orchestra are even reviewed. For example, he ends his book with the study of the mandolin, the guitar, the Dulcimer, and the Highland Bagpipes.

Well Brian, I hope this is of assistance to you. Take it easy. Cheers, stevie wonders

[BrianSzep]

Hi all,

I thought I would post a reply as I haven't in sometime. I have been following this thread and checking out the various books everyone has mentioned. I haven't made any decisions yet. :confused:

I hope that this info will help others find the type of book they are looking for.

- Brian

[musicalm]

Have any of you tried the books from Alexander Publishing? They're updated editions with additional material:
http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/music/orchestration/practicalhandbook.shtml

A unique version of the Rimsky Korsakov book:
http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/music/orchestration/principles.shtml

A book on String Writing by Peter Alexander:
http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/music/stringwriting/index.shtml

I don't have them myself and I'm curious what others think of them...

Matthew

[Kaatza_Music]

Just another plug for Walter Piston's "Orchestration" published by Norton. I have many books on the subject, but it is one of the best I have found.

[Muso]

I've been using "The Technique of Orchestration" for years by Kent Kennan and Donald Grantham.
It has a detailed listing of all the instrumnets, ranges,techniques etc.

Best,
Mitch

[oftagel]

Hi!

Excellent book to answer all Your questions and more is Alfred Blatter`s Instrumentation/Orchestration!!!
It helped me a lot...
Strongly recommended.

[danpowers]

Can't let this go without bitching some about the Adler. It's the most carelessly produced piece of work of its kind I've ever seen: full of glaring mistakes. Get Walter Piston's "Orchestration" (Norton) or Kent Kennan & Donald Grantham's "The technique of orchestration", both miles better.
It sounds like you have the first edition of the book, which was indeed laughably badly edited. The book is now in its third edition, which is a vast improvement over the first.