John William's Music

[Sherief83]

Is it me (Probably just me:D ) or is it that I'm just not getting into his music at all. I've bought two cds, one that has all his major themes from 1970s to 2000 and the episode 2 star wars cd. Although he has some interesting themes (Jurssac park, Harry potter) I'm just not inspired from his work. it feels like it's just random tones with random chords. no consistance. Every time I hear a nice build up of string emotions or brasses(which he uses alot), it just cuts where I want it to go and moves on. I admit the music is probably the most complicated music I've heard in film music. but it's just get's me lost not finding this satisfaction of a complete song or a moving song. Hope I didn't lose you guys?..lol

I'm kinda of disappointed after buying the cds.
what do you all think?

[Ecliptic]

I've heard just a few minutes of the two last JW scores played live at the accademy awards and they have stunned me. He has alway been great, but now he is the greatest.
He has got the nominations, he didn't win, but he's the greatest indeed.
I've always found his best in the movies end titles scores.
John Williams is "The Big Hollywood Sound" and he has got a place in the music history.

[mattmann13]

Yeah The thing I have against a lot of Williams' film scores is that so often you have these great fanfaric themes based solely around major chord arpeggiations but then a huge amount of chromatic meandering underscoring which just so often ends up sounding like waffle. Of course, there are some good films where this doesn't happen eg - Angela's ashes, War of the worlds, Memoirs of a geisha, monority report.

[Ecliptic]

He's not only the Indy brass fanfare.
Have you heard "The Terminal" score? It flows discreet and fair behind the movie scenes and it's a work of art.

[chocothrax]

Is it me (Probably just me:D ) or is it that I'm just not getting into his music at all. I've bought two cds, one that has all his major themes from 1970s to 2000 and the episode 2 star wars cd. Although he has some interesting themes (Jurssac park, Harry potter) I'm just not inspired from his work. it feels like it's just random tones with random chords. no consistance. Every time I hear a nice build up of string emotions or brasses(which he uses alot), it just cuts where I want it to go and moves on. I admit the music is probably the most complicated music I've heard in film music. but it's just get's me lost not finding this satisfaction of a complete song or a moving song. Hope I didn't lose you guys?..lol

I'm kinda of disappointed after buying the cds.
what do you all think?

You won't find any complete songs with Williams because he doesn't write songs. It's not just you that isn't into Williams, there are some others. No matter how great of a musical genius he is he can't win over 100% of the film score fans. No composer can.

[shnurgle]

To the original poster, if you're looking for "complete pieces" then you might consider not buying the soundtrack albums, as most of the cues are likely to be very scene-specific and not thoroughly appreciable apart from their video counterparts. Williams has made concert arrangments of many of his scores that retain the original orchestration and themes, but are arranged to suit a concert audience not watching the films. You might find recordings of these arrangents more gratifying.
I happen to feel that Williams' music (more than any other composer's in the medium) has great value apart from it's pictures. I think it stands on it's own..

(By the way, Williams has released scores (sheet music) for the concert arrangements that are arguably the best textbook available today for scoring in the Hollywood style).

If you're not sold on Williams' music yet I would encourage you to pick up the "E.T." score. The final cue of the picture (also released as a concert arrangement by Williams entitled "Adventures on Earth") is one of the greatest examples not only of Williams' prowess as a writer, but of the sheer volume of ideas and textures that can be fit into a cue. It is both technically and emotionally astonishing and showcases Williams' vast harmonic pallet--far beyond "major triads and chromatiscism." i've heard thousands of scores and I believe "Adventures on Earth" to be the best cue ever written for film.

i'm not a Williams Nazi or anything, but in an industry where more and more composers can't seem to find their ways around a woodwind section, i regard Williams as the high standard of excellence for the medium.

[tchoyy]

it feels like it's just random tones with random chords. no consistance.
themes based solely around major chord arpeggiations but then a huge amount of chromatic meandering underscoring which just so often ends up sounding like waffle

Why do you focus on those things ? Just sit and listen, feel the emotions, feel the music ! :)

[Daryl]

If you're not sold on Williams' music yet I would encourage you to pick up the "E.T." score. The final cue of the picture (also released as a concert arrangement by Williams entitled "Adventures on Earth") is one of the greatest examples not only of Williams' prowess as a writer, but of the sheer volume of ideas and textures that can be fit into a cue. It is both technically and emotionally astonishing and showcases Williams' vast harmonic pallet--far beyond "major triads and chromatiscism." i've heard thousands of scores and I believe "Adventures on Earth" to be the best cue ever written for film.

I'm glad to hear someone say that, as I've been a fan of the ET score for years.

D

[Daryl]

Every time I hear a nice build up of string emotions or brasses(which he uses alot), it just cuts where I want it to go and moves on.
Yeah, that's called scoring for film..........:D

D

[DrDr]

Although he has some interesting themes (Jurssac park, Harry potter) I'm just not inspired from his work. it feels like it's just random tones with random chords. no consistance. Every time I hear a nice build up of string emotions or brasses(which he uses alot), it just cuts where I want it to go and moves on. I admit the music is probably the most complicated music I've heard in film music. ... what do you all think?

Hi Sherief83,

I have a lot of John Williams CDs and some score books arranged for piano (easy to play). And I'm very inspired from his work! The "random tones with random chords" are so great that I can sit at my piano hours after hours and try to find out, which chord fits to which melody.
My most favorit work is "Jurassic Park". I'll never forget the moment I saw it in the cinema and the "journey to the island" theme began with this solo trumpet. I was so overwhelmed!

Cheers
Dietmar

[fongi]

Sherief83 says
" I admit the music is probably the most complicated music I've heard in film music" well I don´t agree with you at all, the reason being he still has to write in a commercial manner, melodies that appeal to the masses that stay in the ear and make you buy his CDs. Incidently has an amazing talent when it comes to composing thrilling and exciting themes and moving the emotions of the listener which is what he is supposed to do, and that´s the reason he is so successful
John Williams, a great musician,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I love him ! :D

[WoodIsGood]

"he still has to write in a commercial manner, melodies that appeal to the masses that stay in the ear and make you buy his CDs"

All this and he still has to do what the director wants. It's not John Williams' film, it's the director's. He writes beautiful, thoughtful music that often does stand alone, but most importantly supports the images on screen. Let's not forget the purpose of film scoring.

[DrDr]

All this and he still has to do what the director wants. It's not John Williams' film, it's the director's. He writes beautiful, thoughtful music that often does stand alone, but most importantly supports the images on screen. Let's not forget the purpose of film scoring.

It was "Close Encounters of the third kind" where Steven Spielberg wrote in the CD Booklet: "In many instances, John (Williams) wrote his music first, while I put the scenes to it much later." :eek:

Cheers
Dietmar

[WoodIsGood]

No doubt some tongue and cheek in that remark. I'm sure the music was originally inspired by the images and the story and then Spielberg re-cut after being inspired himself. Those two have always had, it seems, an extremely collaborative relationship. I'm positive they continually influence and inspire one another throughout the entire process. :)

[SOJO7]

It's all about Hans Zimmer.;)

[maxiseller]

(First Post!!)

I've been admiring John Williams for a long time. The point of analysis regarding his use of Major chords - well, it's true. It is no coincidence that ET, Star Wars and so many of his other themes actually use a perfect 5th as the first two (or three) notes in the melodic line.

The advantage to this (especially in film and media) mean that it's a melody that the audience can instantly remember. A melodic line that jumps around using 7ths and higher in terms of interval is never going to catch anybody's attention in a media that is essentially popular film music for the masses!

IMHO John Williams is a classic. His themes have made many a film what it is today - you ask somebody in the street to sing ET and they can; Star Wars is renound for the power of that first three notes of the brass score.

Genius!

P.s. I agree with Ecliptic - "The terminal" is absolutly perfect for Viktor (our hero)!

[tango9jeff]

I agree as well, I love john williams music but I don't get very inspired by it. I enjoy the way he does time changes and the crazy way he can make percussion and flutes scream together but I never got much more then that out of it. Good to study for sure to learn complicated orchestration. He is the master and the best out there but it doesnt click with me. The only score that I love by him is "Superman" Now dang that is the most rocking french horn melody I've ever heard! Woot!

I personally prefer James N. Howard and Howard Shore over him any day.

[lovelysilence]

Check out Geisha Jeff, you'll love it. It's different from anything the man has written before. Perfect use of the (Gu)Zheng and the Shakuhachi. It's soo unbelievably beautiful imo.
If you can do that next to Jurassic Park or Star Wars or Indiana Jones or whatever .. we all know the list is endless, as are his themes, all beautiful and balanced.

Respect.

Shore of course deserves respect too. LOTR is brilliant imo. And Thomas Newman. And Danny Elfman .... etc etc

[TheVamp]

It was "Close Encounters of the third kind" where Steven Spielberg wrote in the CD Booklet: "In many instances, John (Williams) wrote his music first, while I put the scenes to it much later." :eek:

Cheers
Dietmar

This is actually true. The effects for the "Sky Harbor" ending at Devil's Tower weren't completed in time for Williams to compose to. All he had were storyboards and his discussions with Spielberg to go on. At the scoring sessions, there was no completed footage for Williams to conduct to either, so he and the LSO just ran through it straight.

[nexus85]

The bottom line is that John Williams has to describe what is on the screen. When people think of the music, they must think of the movie, and, if done well enough, vice versa. The memorable themes this guy has written is endless. Try this: think all of all of the themes he's written and count them. Now think of another composer. Count all of his memorable themes, and not the number of movies he/she composed. I'd be willing to bet that you could come up with more JW themes than any other film composer. That, to me, as well as a number of other things, is what sets John Williams apart from the rest. He's still kicking, and I hope stays around for another 20 years! Long live the king! lol

David

[WoodIsGood]

Just watched Geisha last night and I thought the score was incredible. There are moments when you notice the richness and beauty of the music and there are other times when a scene finishes and moves on to the next scene, and then you realize that a lot of the emotion you felt while watching was because of the music. This is how it's supposed to work! Sure, Williams' themes are memorable and he's got more under his belt than probably any other composer. But what he does throughout the rest of the film is what separates him from the pack. He is truly one of the great film composers.

[lovelysilence]

Geisha is brilliant imo. One of his better scores, due to the minute detail and the perfect blending of chinese instruments and symphonic orchestra.

I'm totally in love with the soundtrack. It's got immense depth, thanks to the theme of the film.

[LAcomposer]

Geisha is great, I definetly agree- HOW DID IT LOSE TO BROKEBACK??? The Academy is nuts.

[lovelysilence]

word is out the Academy is nuts


oscars on sale : only 4.99$

[nexus85]

I agree, the Academy is politically correct and is rigged.

[WoodIsGood]

I guess I'm in the John Williams movie mode lately. I watched some of Harry Potter Azkaban last night, haven't seen it in awhile, and I gotta say I am still amazed at John Williams' work. I don't understand those who say they are uninspired by his music. You have to remember that this is "film music", not Beethoven, Brahms, etc. This is music largely inspired by the images on screen and what Williams is doing is sheer brilliance. He has changed with the times, he's not afraid to experiment with new and exotic instruments. He uses synths when called for, he uses modern percussion and he writes beautiful choral music from time to time. What more could you want from a film composer? Yes, he has established his own recognizable style, but that's just it. It's his own style. Zimmer has done the same and I guess it's a form of flattery to have people copy your style. But who's copying Williams with any success? On top of that, he composes and orchestrates his own stuff, from actually writing it on paper to conducting the orchestra. There are few who do it all by themselves. Lastly, what three major motion pictures did Williams score in 2005? Can you name them? And no, I don't know or work for him. I've just always been inspired by his work and hate to see others who are not. :D

[Sherief83]

I completely forgot that I started this thread:D

First of all, I truly understand that william's music is meant for the screen and I truly understand that. I think you can approach scenes in two diffrient ways, the william's way and then every one else's way. what is every one else? just plain music, melody, theme, tone, rich chords. what's william's way? well it is music with one major nice theme but also somehow an additional sound effect. (Like how the old Tom and jerry show was). Ofcourse william's way is a very diffcult task and most likly the best way to do scenes, that's why he get's the spot. But when I look at this for only music, it falls short. You have to watch the movie inorder to appriciate william's music. with other composers like thomas newman and james netwon howard, their music can stand on it's on too and at the same time work for the screen. Is this a bad thing for williams? absolutly not, I mean the music was indeed meant for film but me as a cd buyer is not satisfied and can't get intouch with william's music through cd only. you gotta take the extra step and get in to the movies to see all the glory.


that is all in my opinion ofcourse and how I see it currently.

[WoodIsGood]

Point taken. I see it differently, so we'll agree to disagree. ;)

[LAcomposer]

I don't wanna jump into an argument that's not mine but I'll throw in my two cents about Williams.

well it is music with one major nice theme

Have you heard Schindler's List? Definetely not a "nice major theme" (obviously because the movie did not call for it)

Have we forgotten that John Williams scores all of Steven Spielberg's films? This guy is the biggest director in Hollywood. I think that alone speaks about the quality of his work. Most of Spielberg films are happy in nature, or at least have a happy ending. Williams is just like any other composer, he scores for the mood of the film. If the film is happy- there will probably be a major theme. "War of the Worlds" is a pretty dark movie, and the resulting score is dark.

But when I look at this for only music, it falls short. You have to watch the movie inorder to appriciate william's music. with other composers like thomas newman and james netwon howard, their music can stand on it's on too and at the same time work for the screen.

This is where taste and preference comes into play. I love James Newton Howard's and Thomas Newmans music, and I agree with you that these composers' music works on its own- however, I dont think that Newmans music works quite as well as JW's music on its own. Thomas Newman's soundtracks mostly consist of 15-20 one and a half to two minute cues.

Maybe its just me but in order to completely engulf myself in some music that works on its own it has to be longer than 2 mins -usually. Don't get me wrong - im a big fan of Road to Perdition, Shawshank, Green Mile, and pretty much everything ive heard Newman do, but to me John Williams's music works much better outside the context of the film.

Basically what i'm trying to say is you really can't bash John Williams. When you have as many films under your belt, conduct the Boston Pops, perform for thousands at the Hollywood Bowl, and sell millions of film score albums then I guess you can say whatever. But the man's immensely talented and youve gotta give credit where credit is due. There's my 6000 cents - if anyone cares.

[remmet]

Just the shear variety of styles that he so effortlessly and masterfully inhabits is astounding. It's amazing that one person wrote the music for Geisha, Schindler's List, Catch Me If You Can (great jazzy score), Jaws, ET, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Witches of Eastwick, etc.

I don't indulge in idol worship, but John Williams is truly one of a kind. As a mere mortal, I can only shake my head in awe.

Richard

[nexus85]

I went through JW's biography, and it showed all the films he wrote as well as the date of each one. There was one year in the 70's where he wrote music for 7 films!!! How do you do that by hand????? That's mind boggling. I bet he didn't sleep that year.

[Joseph Burrell]

This is OT, I know, but I can't help it.

I was watching season 3 of the Family Guy last night. In the episode 'Brian Goes to Hollywood' they had a pretty good spoof on John Williams doing music for a porno.:D

[WoodIsGood]

LAcomposer,
Exactly. I just don't understand how any true lover of film music can discount John Williams' work. And not just what he did in the past, but what he is still doing.

[MusicFan]

I'm no expert here, but IMHO, John Williams is irrefutably the king of movie scoring. Works ranging from The Poseidon Adventure to the latest Star Wars - some 30 PLUS years - attest to this. And works such as the upbeat score of Superman and the brooding score of War of the Worlds speak to his diversity. What I would give to be trained by this master!

[lovelysilence]

I listened to many of his themes over the last couple of days and i must say that imo he's made great progress over the years. He's matured as well, which i think is normal although i often think of him as God, and something perfect doesn't evolve. Well, Williams has in my opinion.

[shnurgle]

I love Williams too, but it's easy to forget how much he borrows orchestrationally and harmonically from the masters, in the midst of all his great thematic writing. Again, he's probably my favorite cat in the industry, so don't take this wrong way, but I think that he gets maybe a little too much credit on the harmonic and orchestrational side because he was the first guy to really bring those compositional elements back to that level (in film scoring) in the 70's. I'm not saying he;s not a master of these techniques--he is--but he happened to bring them to the ears of many film goers for the first time, and as a result I think he's accrued a somewhat misleading status as a "complete original" (with respect to these areas). Of course he IS unique in other respects (namely his thematic writing, sensativity to human emotion and picture, and of course the WAY in which he manipulates the aformentioned techniques to produce original contemporary music). i don't think anyone does that better. Anyway, just sayng that a lot of the sonic experience of listening to a JW piece is a result of his comprehensive knowledge of the masters' writing. I sort of think of him as the "Brahms" of film composers in that respect. He's done the most homework.

[remmet]

I sort of think of him as the "Brahms" of film composers in that respect. He's done the most homework.


I would add Mahler, Strauss, Wagner, and Bruckner to the list of giants that Williams encompasses in his music.

Richard

[Sherief83]

I love Williams too, but it's easy to forget how much he borrows orchestrationally and harmonically from the masters, in the midst of all his great thematic writing. Again, he's probably my favorite cat in the industry, so don't take this wrong way, but I think that he gets maybe a little too much credit on the harmonic and orchestrational side because he was the first guy to really bring those compositional elements back to that level (in film scoring) in the 70's. I'm not saying he;s not a master of these techniques--he is--but he happened to bring them to the ears of many film goers for the first time, and as a result I think he's accrued a somewhat misleading status as a "complete original" (with respect to these areas). Of course he IS unique in other respects (namely his thematic writing, sensativity to human emotion and picture, and of course the WAY in which he manipulates the aformentioned techniques to produce original contemporary music). i don't think anyone does that better. Anyway, just sayng that a lot of the sonic experience of listening to a JW piece is a result of his comprehensive knowledge of the masters' writing. I sort of think of him as the "Brahms" of film composers in that respect. He's done the most homework.

Glad you brought that up, I was going to say something specific to that but I didn't want to offend fans...espcially since I don't have comparable music to easly claim that:)..lol but I truly agree.

[shnurgle]

I would add Mahler, Strauss, Wagner, and Bruckner to the list of giants that Williams encompasses in his music.

Richard
Oh sure, I also hear loads from Holst, Bartok, Stravinsky and Debussy in Williams' writing, but when I said 'Brahms" i was referring specifically to the degree that Williams' has clearly studied these masters. Brahms' reputation for score study is nearly unparalleled.

[remmet]

Oh sure, I also hear loads from Holst, Bartok, Stravinsky and Debussy in Williams' writing, but when I said 'Brahms" i was referring specifically to the degree that Williams' has clearly studied these masters. Brahms' reputation for score study is nearly unparalleled.

Ahh, I suspected I may have missed your meaning. But speaking of Brahms, he is another hero of mine -- for his music, for his friendship with Mahler, and for his fine Bach transcriptions.

Richard

[nexus85]

I'm more of a chopin fan, as far as romantic composers go, but I guess that's because I'm more a pianist. Brahms has good stuff, but a lot of what I hear sounds like a well-crafted lullaby, lol. I'm guessing I need to listen to more Brahms.

[JacquesMathias]

Hi !

I'm sorry, i didn't read all the posts, so i can't discuss anything, but come on...John Williams is a GREAT composer. The Hollywood scores have changed a lot in the last 30 years, and sometimes the new JW scores can sound a bit "old school" to the "modern audience". BUT, listening ET's score you feel, you know that he is more than a normal composer. He will become history. No matter we like it or not.

Best.

[pappagheno]

Anyway, just sayng that a lot of the sonic experience of listening to a JW piece is a result of his comprehensive knowledge of the masters' writing. I sort of think of him as the "Brahms" of film composers in that respect. He's done the most homework.

well I agree, as for example I remained a little disappointed when I heard a theme on the first new Star Wars trilogy ..think was a shot with princess Amidala, teh theme was exacly ( maybe few little differences..) the Aquarium from the Animal's carnival of Saint Saen.. :(

anyway.. I was surprised he didnt get the oscar this year.. Memory of a Geisha is his best work and one of the best soundtraks I ever heard.
and the recordind of the cd is amazing, anybody knows what techincs they used.. ?
recorded in a hall .. ?
what about the japanese instruments ?

there is a lot of different instruments the mixing is excellent

maybe he didnt get an oscar becouse they will give him an oscar at his career next year ?

[shnurgle]

Pa-
Pa-
Pa-Pa-
Pa-
Pa-Pa-
Pa-Pa-Pa-Pa-
Pa-
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-gheno!

[wilx]

I think he's too good.

He should give me some of his ability, and he'd still be miles above anyone else in the business.

[pappagheno]

Pa-
Pa-
Pa-Pa-
Pa-
Pa-Pa-
Pa-Pa-Pa-Pa-
Pa-
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-gheno!


are you german ? :)

yes Ilove mozart..but what if I say that I took that name becouse I have an alba cockatoo ? :)

[lovelysilence]

and the recordind of the cd is amazing, anybody knows what techincs they used.. ?
recorded in a hall .. ?
what about the japanese instruments ??

Yes, I'd like to know as much about it as possible, too. Please post your endless insights and knowledge on Geisha!

[WoodIsGood]

I don't remember tons of details about it, but if you get the 2-disc DVD you can watch the featurette on the music. There are some shots of the recording sessions and interviews with John Williams and some of the other major players. It was definitely recorded on a soundstage with a smaller than average orchestra. Check it out. :)

[shnurgle]

but what if I say that I took that name becouse I have an alba cockatoo ?
Then I'd say you are integrity personified. :)

[pappagheno]

Then I'd say you are integrity personified. :)

thought was better than Polly.. (wants a cracker...) ;)


btw off oof topic..but I ma going to see Eine kleine nacht music at St Martin in The Field tomorrow.. (London) anybody from this forum going ?

Fabio

[shnurgle]

Is Neville Mariner still on that gig? I love ASMITF.

[FilmComposerZ]

Hymn to the Fallen, from Saving Private Ryan is outstanding. It is such a simple melody, but he came up with it. I get tears in my eyes when i hear that cue.

[james hansson]

my big respect for john williams


for score HOOK
for" You Are The Pan"


http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000287C.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_V54149377_.jpg

and EMPIRE OF THE SUN
for "Toy Planes, Home, And Hearth"

thanks you mr williams


http://www.screenselect.co.uk/images/products/2/23642-large.jpg

[doug hazelrigg]

John Williams is probably the greatest film composer of all time because:

>he knows when the music must be subserviant to the action/dialogue and when he can let the music take center stage

>he has a very recognizable style... he's been faulted for relying heavily on Wagner, but what modern film composer has NOT relied heavily on Wagner? I ask you

>that opening brass fanfare of Star Wars is probably the MOST recognizable piece of film music ever written, and deservedly so. Although it too is lifted straight from Wagner, it's pure genius. We've only gotten overly accustomed to it

>Williams is very underrated as a MODERN composer. Listen to the Close Encounters soundtrack; it stands on its own as a brilliant atonal study

A confession: my life goal was to be the "next" John Williams... although at 45 I suppose it's not TOO late to give up:rolleyes:

[shnurgle]

Ah yes my brothers, tonight el Shnurgelito saw JW conducting th NY Philly, and what a show! First half: all Herrmann scores hosted by Martin Scorsese. Second half: all Williams scores hosted by Spielberg himself. They brought the screen down and Williams conducted to picture..what a treat! Then they did this great thing, unscripted. They ran the opening clip from Indiana Jones 3 (where young indie is being chased on a train by some thieves). it's a three minute sequence with 40 synch points (!) and they ran the clip sans music and Spielberg walked the audience through all the synch points he needed williams to hit etc. then JW got up and conducted the cue to the picture. it was amazing. Later he conducted the finale of E.T. to picture and did like 4 curtain calls including Star Wars, NBC News theme, and his medley of Bernstein tunes.

Wiliams is a really interestng conducter. He wears a couple hats on the podium and of course he millks a lot of the stuff for the audience, but I noticed when he conducts to picture and is intently focused on synch, he's much more utilitarian up there, strictly marking the tempo and dynamic changes. He almost looks like a military band conductor in that function. Then when he's just doing the concert thing he gets a lot more "creative" with his movement. And of course, the signature cutoff with the hand clentched in a tight fist "Rocky Balboa" style.

I noticed he does that peculiar thing where he conducts ahead of the beat (like many concert conductors)--but only when the projector isn't rolling. When he's on the timecode, he's right on the beat. Does anyone know why a conductor's go ahead of the beat liek that, and how the orchestra is able to come in with clean entrances when they do?

Also, for those interested, JW's podium setup was interesting. In addition to his scores, he had a personal LCD display showing the picture (in addition to the huge screen over the stage) and he had this old-school looking clock up there with an analog face that counted down 60 second incriments. It looked like it wuld reset and countdown to zero marking major synch points. does anyone know what this thing is all about?

Anyway great night of JW and Herrmann. herrmann is so sick it's not even funny. those vertigo themes are off the charts.

Anyway, JW is conductng again on wednesday. if you're in NYC you might still be able to grab tix. it's worth every penny.

[remmet]

that opening brass fanfare of Star Wars is probably the MOST recognizable piece of film music ever written, and deservedly so. Although it too is lifted straight from Wagner, it's pure genius. We've only gotten overly accustomed to it



That's funny. Just yesterday I had a discussion with my 18-year-old son regarding our choice for most recognizable movie theme. I suggested the Godfather theme. He said Star Wars. I thought it might be a generational issue, but maybe not. He loves the Godfather films as much as Star Wars.

And thanks shnurgle for the lowdown on the Williams NY Phil concert. Wish I was there.

I've always wondered what it takes to not only compose the perfect cues for the film, but to then stand up in front of the studio orchestra, obtain perfect performances, and manage the recording sessions with perfect efficiency. And not have a stroke in the process. Williams makes it look easy.

Richard

[nexus85]

Pa-
Pa-
Pa-Pa-
Pa-
Pa-Pa-
Pa-Pa-Pa-Pa-
Pa-
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-gheno!

This is from Mozart's "The Magic Flute" opera. This is the part where Pappagheno and Pappaghena finally get to be together. It's quite humorous in context.

[nexus85]

[QUOTE=shnurgle]I noticed he does that peculiar thing where he conducts ahead of the beat (like many concert conductors)--but only when the projector isn't rolling. When he's on the timecode, he's right on the beat. Does anyone know why a conductor's go ahead of the beat liek that, and how the orchestra is able to come in with clean entrances when they do?
QUOTE]

I'm aware of this phenomena as well. I talked to my dad about a while back because the conductor of our local symphony orchestra does the same thing. As far as conducting ahead of the beat is concerned, I'm pretty sure that's because of the string players. Even though the attack is right on the beat, it takes a short time for the sound to develop. This would in turn make the rest of the orchestra a tiny bit behind as well because they're all listening to each other to play together. However, if you say he's conducting right on the beat for the film cues, this could be his way of rushing the orchestra to match the screen. This is just an educated guess.

David

[Daryl]

I've always wondered what it takes to not only compose the perfect cues for the film, but to then stand up in front of the studio orchestra, obtain perfect performances, and manage the recording sessions with perfect efficiency. And not have a stroke in the process. Williams makes it look easy.

Richard
He makes it look easy because he know what he is doing. He isn't a great conductor by any stretch of the imagination, but he knows his music, is clear and knows what he wants when it comes to rehearsing.

D

[WoodIsGood]

How many years did he conduct the Boston Pops Orchestra?

[TheVamp]

Shnurg,
Do you live in NYC? We've gotta do lunch, dude! (Yeah, I'm serious.)

[Daryl]

How many years did he conduct the Boston Pops Orchestra?
Don't know, and your point?

D

[WoodIsGood]

My point was pretty obvious, I thought. I think by some small stretch of the imagination he could be considered a great conductor. He didn't just conduct his own pieces for 12 years. I just thought when you stated "He isn't a great conductor by any stretch of the imagination . . ." that was a pretty big statement which shouldn't go unchallenged. I won't pretend to know what makes a conductor great, and you may be right in saying he isn't one of the greats. But he can't be too shabby to hold that position for that many years and conduct film scores for as long as he has (keeping in mind that a lot of guys these days don't bother conducting their own music). That's all. Not trying to start a battle. :)

[shnurgle]

Shnurg,
Do you live in NYC? We've gotta do lunch, dude! (Yeah, I'm serious.)
I don't "do" lunch, my friend. Just kidding, love to. I'll be in Europe for the next couple weeks. We'll grab a "6-piece" when I get back.

[TheVamp]

I don't "do" lunch, my friend. Just kidding, love to. I'll be in Europe for the next couple weeks. We'll grab a "6-piece" when I get back.
Nice. Let me know. I'd love to meet ya.

[Daryl]

My point was pretty obvious, I thought. I think by some small stretch of the imagination he could be considered a great conductor. He didn't just conduct his own pieces for 12 years. I just thought when you stated "He isn't a great conductor by any stretch of the imagination . . ." that was a pretty big statement which shouldn't go unchallenged. I won't pretend to know what makes a conductor great, and you may be right in saying he isn't one of the greats. But he can't be too shabby to hold that position for that many years and conduct film scores for as long as he has (keeping in mind that a lot of guys these days don't bother conducting their own music). That's all. Not trying to start a battle. :)
The is a gulf between being a competent time beater and a "great" conductor. I was just giving my professional opinion.

D

[WoodIsGood]

Daryl,
Excuse my ignorance, I'm relatively new around here. What is your profession?

[Daryl]

Daryl,
Excuse my ignorance, I'm relatively new around here. What is your profession?
Well to be relevant to your question, a conductor..............!

D

[WoodIsGood]

:o I guess I put my foot in my mouth. You would certainly know what makes a great conductor. But see, had I not questioned your statement I would have no idea that you were a conductor. :) Where/who do you conduct?

[Phantom]

In my opinion, the best themes John Williams has ever composed and probably two of the top themes in my all-time favourites are from Star Wars Episodes 2 & 3.

"Across The Stars" love theme from Eps II

"Battle Of Heroes" duel theme from Eps III

Listen to these two tracks and then you will truly love his work

:)

[Daryl]

:o I guess I put my foot in my mouth. You would certainly know what makes a great conductor. But see, had I not questioned your statement I would have no idea that you were a conductor. :) Where/who do you conduct?

No you didn't put your foot in your mouth. The Internet is a very strange beast and some people trumpet their skills to within an inch of their lives and one only finds out about others over time. I often forget that I am "talking" to people who don't know me from Adam and therefore don't know what (if any) my skill set is.

Regarding my conducting, these days it is mostly limited to sessions as I never enjoyed touring and have vowed to leave all that in the past. However, I do the occasional concert or broadcast if it is close to home, the money is good, we are performing some of my stuff or any combination of the above!

D

[chocothrax]

In my opinion, the best themes John Williams has ever composed and probably two of the top themes in my all-time favourites are from Star Wars Episodes 2 & 3.

"Across The Stars" love theme from Eps II

"Battle Of Heroes" duel theme from Eps III

Listen to these two tracks and then you will truly love his work

:)

Those two themes bow down to the mighty force theme.

[Stefan Podell]

Williams' superiority can withstand any challenge based on one simple fact: He used a vibraslap in "Jurassic Park" and it works!

[josejherring]

William's superiority lies in the fact that every time he touches pen to paper there's an acadamy award nomination.

He's got 5 Oscars, over 50 nominations. The films he's scored have made over 10 billion dollars combined easily.

At 70 something he's still one of the top picks for composing music for movies. He's booked already in to 2008. He'll probably be booked long after the average human life expectancy in the hopes that maybe he'll live long enough to score one more film.

To the guy that started this thread, gee I wonder how your career is going?:p

[Stefan Podell]

Yeah, Jose, that's all well and good.

But c'mon, man. A vibraslap! In a movie about dinosaurs!!!!

;)

[WoodIsGood]

Ouch!!:eek:

[Sherief83]

William's superiority lies in the fact that every time he touches pen to paper there's an acadamy award nomination.

He's got 5 Oscars, over 50 nominations. The films he's scored have made over 10 billion dollars combined easily.

At 70 something he's still one of the top picks for composing music for movies. He's booked already in to 2008. He'll probably be booked long after the average human life expectancy in the hopes that maybe he'll live long enough to score one more film.

To the guy that started this thread, gee I wonder how your career is going?:p

http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=3983

I wasn't trying to compare myself to him. My expectations of him however was alot higher than my self's.

[HornMeister]

John Williams is simply amazing

Although I'm not a fan of the Stars Wars saga

THe music is amazing

I almost cried when the memoirs lost to Brokeback Mountain
how does that happen?
Academy messed up big time

Munich was also a good one

The same goes for the Harry Potter

He stays true to composing he stays away from electronics

I still love Zimmer for that

but JW stays true to the roots

and that it what makes him so DAMN GOOD

no matter what anyone says

he will go down as one of the best composers in film history;)