Batman Begins - What do you think?

[WoodIsGood]

Sorry in advance if this soundtrack has been covered in detail, but I did a search and didn't find a ton of threads on it. So, here's my issue . . .

For the past several months I've been listening to this soundtrack quite a bit in my car going to and from work and I have some mixed feelings about it. At times I find it to be brilliant, especially recalling the images onscreen and how the music supports them. But at times I wish certain areas had been developed more, i.e. in track #10 titled "Molossus" which is the train sequence in the film, there is the stereotypical Zimmer theme (see The Rock, Gladiator, Crimson Tide) played by a big, bold horn section. But it is one of the only places you get to hear this melody. Now don't get me wrong (I know there are those here who despise when Zimmer and other composers insert "pop" melodies into their scores, which tend to grab the listener and help sell the soundtrack), but I really like this one and wished it had been more present in the overall score. Forgive me once again if this has already been covered, but does anyone know how the collaborative process worked between Zimmer and Howard? Meaning who did what and was one of them involved initially and then the other one took over?

Here's my take . . . I think the director, Christopher Nolan, was probably very involved in the score, maybe more so than the average director. I bet the composers had earlier drafts that were much more melodic and rich with themes and the director wanted to reduce the score down to be more like what they ended up with. That being said, if you watch the film the score works very well. It helps create a very unique atmosphere and in my opinion is one of the reasons this is the best Batman film to date. This is why I want to bring up this topic: two heavy-hitting composers and a very understated score . . . how and why did they do it?

What do you guys think?

[White Noise]

Work on the score started even as principal photography was going on. Many musical ideas were written and recorded in advance of a locked picture being present for Zimmer & Howard to work on. Nolan was then able to use some of these to influence pacing etc. My understanding is that once the final picture was there, the music-editors were wheeled in to cut and paste appropriately. There would have been some additional shaping done by Zimmer's assistants etc. Zimmer co-wrote a lot with Ramin Djawadi (Blade Trinity) and some other Remote Control underlings. The popular industry press stuff about his sitting down with Newton-Howard at the piano is probably overly romanticised. That said, James' studio is a very short drive from Hans' studio in Santa Monica, so, it's not inconcievable that the collaboration was closer than perhaps I am describing.

[chocothrax]

It's a pretty good score. I mean it's crap when compared against the mighty Elfman's version but yeah it's pretty good.

[SOJO7]

Elfman's theme said "This is Batman, this is batman's world". The Batman Begins score didn't have anything that really shouted either... It was closer to "Batman's city and emotions" than anything else... in my opinion...:)

[dcoscina]

It's somewhat effective in the context of the film but as pure music, it really is wanting. Elfman's is much better written in that regard although I hate the first 4 Batman films. I could at least stand to watch Batman Begins.

I much prefer the Spiderman franchise though. Better made movies.

[Sherief83]

I think the score worked great with the movie. But you could also say that the Music was a plus and not One with batman begins. Nolan is brilliant, he was able to touch on many interesting subject with begins and I think the movie could've probably stood on it's on with less music even. I must say, I could tell when hans had the line and when howard had the line and I tell you, James netwon howard still amazes me. track 7 and 11 is amazing and work great with two scenes. the first one is when bruce was young with his parents in the train and his dad was pointing out the wayen building. the other scnene is where bruce kissed Rachel (kate holems) in the end. the music was amazing to me.

[dcoscina]

I really like James Newton Howard's string theme for Wayne's father. That is a brilliantly scored scene and the music works so beautifully on its own. Reminds me of Vaughan Williams except original. I do wish Howard had scored to entire film himself because I loath that Media Ventures action music crap during the chase scenes. It's horrible horrible stuff. Just plain awful.

[Daryl]

My favourite cue is the journey to the city with young Bruce and his father. Vintage JNH.

D

[dcoscina]

My favourite cue is the journey to the city with young Bruce and his father. Vintage JNH.

D

That's my fave too. Sends shivers down the spine that's how good it is. JNH can write really good music when he wants to (Unbreakable, Signs, Wyatt Earp, Falling Down, Dinosaur etc.)

[CeXzer]

Yep, two soundtracks I can't get bored of, Batman and Batman begins. I think both are brilliant. Sure, Elfman's batman stands more on it's own, but I also think that is it's shortcoming compared to the other one. When I'm watching the movie after listening to both scores a million times, I tend to separate the score in Batman from the movie, especially the titles. Feels as if he wrote it independently of the presentation of the title scene (opposed to Spider-man, which is the best opening scene ever, with music that couldn't fit any more perfectly). However if I watch Batman Begins, the music is an integral part of the picture even if it is not as interesting by itself as the other one. And my favorite is also the journey to the city, but even there music is only there to strengthen the picture, I barely notice it even if I know what I'm looking for, and I think that's strength, not weakness. So for me it's a tie :)

[chocothrax]

So for me it's a tie :)

Blasphemy. :D

[godslilromeo79]

of course the music for Batman Begins can't be compared to Elfman's version. His version worked perfectly with Tim Burton's version(s) of Batman and JNH & Zimmer's score was very effective in Batman Begins. Imagine listening to Elfman's score during BB and JNH & Zimmer's score for Burton's Batman films. It wouldn't work lol.

BTW - I love the track Molossus on the Batman Begins score. It is probably my favorite song ever. The percussion is thunderous. I love it.

JNH basically said "I do the soft stuff, Hans does the action pieces." in the film, it is quite obvious, you can tell what pieces JNH scored and what pieces Zimmer scored by listening closely because their styles are easy to identify.

[tango9jeff]

dcoscina oh man how can you hate the first 2 batman movies?!?! The first 2 with Michael K. as batman were just amazing. The dark twisted feel of those films were awesome!

As far as the music the old batman score was just a million times better. I can appreciate there effort to make it totally different which they did but that new batman film did not inspire me near to the level the first 2 movies did.

[dcoscina]

dcoscina oh man how can you hate the first 2 batman movies?!?! The first 2 with Michael K. as batman were just amazing. The dark twisted feel of those films were awesome!

As far as the music the old batman score was just a million times better. I can appreciate there effort to make it totally different which they did but that new batman film did not inspire me near to the level the first 2 movies did.

I'm a huge comic book fan and Tim Burton admitted to never reading the comics. This is a huge problem. Except for Batman Begins, none of the other Batman films nailed the tone of the comic books. And I'm still waiting for someone to hire a guy who's 6ft 4 for the lead role because Batman is supposed to be very tall and menacing. We keep getting small guys playing.

I think in his younger days, Clint Eastwood would have been THE Batman. That gravoly voice. Man, he'd scare the pee out of me!

[chocothrax]

BTW if anyone cares here's a clip of Molossus without the synths. http://www.hans-zimmer.com/fr/media/molussus.mp3 Kinda lame and Marco Beltrami ish. Performed by the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra.

[Evan Gamble]

BTW if anyone cares here's a clip of Molossus without the synths. http://www.hans-zimmer.com/fr/media/molussus.mp3 Kinda lame and Marco Beltrami ish. Performed by the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra.

I actually kinda like it more:o

did anyone hear the clip from the davinci code on his site? wtf!?

[WoodIsGood]

Not sure what that DaVinci Code clip is all about. It must be some early synth mock-ups . . . I hope.:confused:

[chocothrax]

I actually kinda like it more:o

did anyone hear the clip from the davinci code on his site? wtf!?

Well that's...strange. :) That Davinci code clip sucks so i'm hoping that's how the score will be. *fingers crossed*

[Sherief83]

That da vinci clip sounds very familer. and I'm very sure it's from an old music too(0:13---0:23). Possible something from close encounters?

[Edx]

Possible something from close encounters?

You dont mean....John Williams' Close Encounters? ...:confused:

[WoodIsGood]

Ha!

[chocothrax]

You dont mean....John Williams' Close Encounters? ...:confused:

*Gets out popcorn* This part of the forum sure is entertaining.