Patrick Doyle - underated?

[White Noise]

I'm a big fan of Patrick's work and was lucky enough to recieve a one-on-one film scoring masterclass with the man himself. He also took me out for a pint and a sandwich at his local pub, so I can say that he's a great guy too.

In terms of recognition though, it seems to be only recently, what with Harry Potter and Nanny Mcphee that he seems to be recieving the attention he deserves. I, for one, thought that the score for Carlito's Way was extremely beautiful and worked tremendously well. And who can forget Henry V?

He was once referred to as a poor man's John Williams, but, in terms of writing chops and sheer old school craftsmanship, I think he's one of the top composer's working in the world of film today.

Whilst we're on the topic of people called Patrick, I must take this opportunity to big-up Patrick Cassidy (who wrote the beautiful aria, Vide Cor Meum, for which Hans Zimmer took credit) in Ridley Scott's, Hannibal. He's recently been doing some fine work on a number of smaller pictures (Che), that I do recommend you go and see for the music if no other reason.

[guy theaker]

I'm with you on this one WN. Have to say, I don't know much of his work - but if I remember correctly, didn't he write for the Jeremy Brett 'Sherlock Holmes' series made for UK tv back in the
early 80's? If so, it was a great musical recreation of victorian London.

[Paulie]

I really liked Paddy Doyle's score to "Dead Again".

[wilx]

I've been disecting Doyle's score for Harry Potter for my dissertation, and I'm very impressed. The main criticism of that score is the lack of 'established' harry potter themes in it, along with other recogniseable and frequent themes.
That's not entirely true though - two of the established Potter themes are referenced and used in the film, and there are at least 4 main motifs repeated throuhout the score - and used in some very clever ways. He's a damn good composer, and I wouldn't mind a one-on-one masterclass with him!

[lux]

for what it counts I find Doyle's score for Harry Potter nice and more coherent than I expected.

[dcoscina]

I think Doyle's okay. He made some assinine comment a while back about how the only good film composers out there these days were his fellow English composers like Rachel Portman, Ann Dudley, and Goerge Fenton. I'm sorry but I'll take "crappy" North American composers like John Williams, Howard Shore, Elliot Goldenthal, James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, and Michael Giacchino over that bunch any day. But that's just me. :)

[PaulR]

- but if I remember correctly, didn't he write for the Jeremy Brett 'Sherlock Holmes' series made for UK tv back in the
early 80's? If so, it was a great musical recreation of victorian London.

Patrick Gowers. A little bit older than Patrick Doyle. ;)

[White Noise]

He made some assinine comment a while back about how the only good film composers out there these days were his fellow English composers like Rachel Portman, Ann Dudley, and Goerge Fenton. :)

That sounds very unlike Patrick. One of things that he said when I was with him was how much he respects Williams. What he may have been getting at is a tendency amongst the Hollywood fraternity of film composers to "chuck in the kitchen sink". There is a British aesthetic that is, I believe, more subtle but not necessarily better. His score for Donnie Brasco is a great example of how one can write sensatively to a big film.

[fongi]

Is he underated ? I mean he is working and making good bucks I bet he isn´t complaining one bit! At the end of the day the man is good and it is recognised, what more can Patrick want? :D

[Edx]

Is he underated ? I mean he is working and making good bucks I bet he isn´t complaining one bit! At the end of the day the man is good and it is recognised, what more can Patrick want? :D

Girls and fast cars.

[dcoscina]

That sounds very unlike Patrick. One of things that he said when I was with him was how much he respects Williams. What he may have been getting at is a tendency amongst the Hollywood fraternity of film composers to "chuck in the kitchen sink". There is a British aesthetic that is, I believe, more subtle but not necessarily better. His score for Donnie Brasco is a great example of how one can write sensatively to a big film.

I believe the context what he was implying is that many contemporary Hollywood scores eschew melody, harmony, themes etc. in favor of homogenous sound textures which I do agree with to a point. There's a lot of big percussion, big moments in the most inconsequential moment in any given film these days without a sense over overall narrative build in the music score. But I'm just not sure that this problem is solely the problem of North American composers.

[wilx]

Veering slightly off the subject, I did a mockup of Doyle's first Potter cue on SilverXP. When you pay that much attention to someone's compositions you start to realise that maybe these people are doing the big films for a good reason!


http://wilx.co.uk/resources/potterbounce

I want GoldXP :(

[White Noise]

Really enjoyed your Potterbounce track Wilx. Am going to forward the link to Patrick. Think he'll appreciate it.

WN

[White Noise]

But I'm just not sure that this problem is solely the problem of North American composers.

Certainly not and I agree with you totally. Are we including the entire European contingent that makes up the Hollywood fraternity of film composers these days? Gregson-Williams, Zimmer, Badelt et al. I think what we're talking about here is the difference between 'Hollywood' scores which may or may not be written by North American composers and 'other' film music. The idea of 'Hollywood' has, in terms of film analysis, much less to do with the geographical specifics of production (in this case post-production) than it does the industrial trends and stylistic sensibilities of the product associated with the region.

Perhaps we should instead be thinking of Hollywood as being more of a 'mode' of film making in the same way that Bollywood or Hong Kong Martial Arts movies are a 'mode'. I'm British and live in South East London. It doesn't stop me going out and shooting a Bollywood movie and adopting all of the principles behind it.

The Hollywood 'mode' of film making is mimicked the world over and can be done either very well or very poorly. The same is true of Hollywood music. A good example might be that whilst EWQLSO is very much a 'Hollywood' sounding library, owning it and bashing away with the timps and brass over every subtle, nuanced scene in a film won't make you a good Hollywood Composer. I try as often as possible to not rely on the sheer production gloss of EWQLSO to get me out of writing poorly crafted music. Perhaps what Patrick is refering to is the Hollywood trend (in all things it seems) to rely on spectacle over artistic content. This doesn't mean that there aren't good things going on in Hollywood, there are, but I think that spectacle has become more a by-product of the Hollywood mode. In lesser hands than those of Doyle, Williams, Sylvestri etc. We simply get orchestral spectacle with little substance or intellectual artistry - whatever your nationality.

Hope that all made sense.