View Full Version : Let's all orchestrate a melody....
Jeff Hayat
05-09-2006, 12:08 PM
Pablo, aka FilmComposerZ in the following thread, post #37:
http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=4106
has a great idea.
How about we all post up the staff music of a one line melody we create. We all vote which one is the one we are going to try to orchestrate. We vote. Maybe a simple two bar to 4 bar melody. 4/4 or 6/8 or 3/4, whatver it be...
Once chosen, we all take a crack at orchestrating and harmonizing the melody and at the same time writing variations to the theme to end up with at least 30 seconds of music
Well, what about it? Anyone else game?
--edit-- allright, he said 'crack', just try and ignore that, ok...LOL
I'm in - could be a fun little diversion to see how everyone approaches it differently...
tchoyy
05-09-2006, 01:42 PM
What about doing that in the contest, that would be funny, Doug or Nick gives the melody and we vote for the one who made the better orchestration/Arrangement.
tgfoo
05-09-2006, 01:58 PM
I think that would be a great idea.
shnurgle
05-09-2006, 02:42 PM
I'll play this game.
The "single note melody," are we to give a suggested harmonic progression with the melody or are we leaving the harmony up to the orchestrator as well (not typical)?
I think the idea of not suggesting the harmony could be cool too--would yield very different orchestrations. I think the way an arranger harmonizes (or re-harmonizes) a melody shows great insight into his musical mind.
guy theaker
05-09-2006, 03:23 PM
Great idea. Count me in. So there's just a melody, right? I agree with Shnurg - no specific harmony, or if there is, then it's not legally binding. I think style too shouldn't be specified - it would simply be down to what the melody suggests to us.
Ecliptic
05-09-2006, 07:50 PM
Gee! I think it's a great idea and agree with Shnurg and Guy about no guide lines on the harmony.
Let's set free everyone's musical background and creativity.
I'm not shure Doug and Nick have much time to write a melody being that they are very busy in their business, but I should be happy if they belie me.
Cheers
mattmann13
05-09-2006, 09:34 PM
Count me in. gimme a melody!
dcoscina
05-09-2006, 09:54 PM
In keeping with the other thread we should also have to notate it in whatever score editor we all use in our sequencers or notation software. In keeping with the whole "can you compose if the electricity went off". At the very least, people should say what method they used upon the entry. Just to see if the two methods do produce a very different result.
FilmComposerZ
05-09-2006, 10:45 PM
Awesome! I didn't think my idea would get so much approval. I also felt that harmony was up to the orchestrator, or producer, arranger, since you can take the melody and make it heavy metal if you wish to do so.
If Nick or Doug cannot provide the melody, then we'll all pitch in and vote on it.
Pablo
nikolas
05-09-2006, 11:47 PM
That is a great idea, although for the contest it may take ouyt a little of the "talent" ingredient and put in more of the "education" and "experience". Not to mention that if done in the contest people who have won in the past 6 months won't be able to take part.
But a great idea altogether, and I'm in...
That is a great idea, although for the contest it may take ouyt a little of the "talent" ingredient and put in more of the "education" and "experience".
How so?
nikolas
05-10-2006, 03:38 AM
How so?
Well.. the compositional part...
At least I do give notice to the composition part of every track in here
Well.. the compositional part...
At least I do give notice to the composition part of every track in here
I'd say talent and education are equally valuable in both composing and arranging - I think this arranging idea would be as much about talent as the composing monthly contest.
Let's get this thing started!
guy theaker
05-10-2006, 05:08 AM
I'm with you Wilx. I know there was a suggestion that Nick & Doug could provide a melody,or that this should be incorperated into the monthly contest, but I don't think that's absolutely necessary. Probably better if it's NOT a competition, just an interesting thing to do.
tchoyy
05-10-2006, 05:14 AM
Yeah I agree, only the melody would be given.
PaulR
05-10-2006, 05:59 AM
I'll play.
tchoyy
05-10-2006, 08:52 AM
Actually, I said It would be nice for a contest because it could be more interesting.
Every entrants would start at the same moment, I mean, when you do a contest saying "Special Romantic" for instance, there are people who will post their demo they did some time ago, and those who will start a new project. If we start with a melody, everyone will start a new project at the same time, at the contest beginning.
Do you understand what I mean ? :D
Of course, those who don't want to enter the contest could play too and post it in the music section.
sinkd
05-10-2006, 09:29 AM
I'd like to do this. Keep us posted.
DS
guy theaker
05-10-2006, 09:38 AM
tchoyy, I know what you mean.
The only reason I suggested not, is that then we don't have to wait - for Nick/Doug to provide a melody, or the contest rules to be changed (which may or may not happen). It means we can start.......now!
Incidentally, I have favour to ask. My website's gone (temporarily), so I have no way of posting Mp3's or midi files. Would any kind person host my offerings to this musical party?
Jeff Hayat
05-10-2006, 09:50 AM
My website's gone (temporarily), so I have no way of posting Mp3's or midi files. Would any kind person host my offerings to this musical party?
I would be happy to. I guess the thing to do would be to email me the files when you have them ready, and I will put them up on my server.
Cheers.
guy theaker
05-10-2006, 10:24 AM
:) You sir are a true gent - many thanks!
FilmComposerZ
05-10-2006, 11:38 AM
OK....me being the offiial "developer" of this orchestrating excersise, I feel that we should all pitch in a melody this week. I'll start an "official" thread where we can post are melody in the Music Section. I feel it should be in notation form. No dynamics, no harmony, no soundfile. Just pure written melody. MIDI file or a graphics file. And then we'll vote after a couple of days.
I guess we need to state some rules and guidelines:
If anybody wants to add please do so...then we'll decide which rules should apply...
I'll start
1) Melody is fixed. Cannot be changed. i.e. Imagine yourself the orchestrator of John Williams. Forget about changing his melody. You must arrange, orchestrate and harmonize to the melody. This is just an example. You can do it ethnically, Rock, Pop, Symphonic, Duet, Vocal...whatever....
2) Tempo may be adjusted. The only reason I think this is good is because I have heard up tempo melodies performed at slower tempos and they bring on a whole new meaning.
3) Key cannot be changed. Beat cannot be changed. In other words, Gmaj key with a 4/4 time signature must remain the same.
4) Piece must be at least 30 seconds.
5) Considering melody will be chosen, no participant can claim his composition as original. This is a grey area. Needs discussion...
These are five that I can think of...
Any other suggestions?
Pablo
Jeff Hayat
05-10-2006, 01:33 PM
I disagree with # 2 - the tempo should be a fixed tempo.
I agree with the other four, tho, especially #5.
Cheers.
guy theaker
05-10-2006, 01:58 PM
Sounds good to me.
Surely the tempo of any music depends on what suits the arrangement as decided by the producer/conductor. I think it should be variable,as FilmComposerZ suggests. G.
ellios
05-10-2006, 02:27 PM
This whole thread is exciting. (we used to do just that in my university composition course, 2nd year...)
Whatever you decide for a fixed tempo or not, I agree. But this whole process has to remain educational. NO WINNERS OR LOSERS.
mattmann13
05-10-2006, 02:39 PM
some pretty good rules but why should it have to remain in a particular key? surely if the challenge is to orchestrate we should be able to muck around with the harmonic background?
Sherief83
05-10-2006, 02:48 PM
I'm in, when can we start and where do we share the themes?
shnurgle
05-10-2006, 03:04 PM
1) Melody is fixed. Cannot be changed. i.e. Imagine yourself the orchestrator of John Williams. Forget about changing his melody. You must arrange, orchestrate and harmonize to the melody. This is just an example. You can do it ethnically, Rock, Pop, Symphonic, Duet, Vocal...whatever....
If you insist on note-for note matching then you must realize the supplied melody cannot be a two bar melody as suggested, but must be as long as you intend it from start to finish, and all orchestrations will be identical in length (in terms of notes, not time). In other words, a two bar melody under this condition will yeld a two bar orchestration. You are not allowing for any compositional development.
2) Tempo may be adjusted. The only reason I think this is good is because I have heard up tempo melodies performed at slower tempos and they bring on a whole new meaning.
Agreed, definitely.
3) Key cannot be changed. Beat cannot be changed. In other words, Gmaj key with a 4/4 time signature must remain the same.
Disagree, key should be allowed to be changed. One of the fundamental tools of the arranger is negotiating harmony for the sake of interest and this includes key modulation. (but again this will all depend on the decision about #1)
4) Piece must be at least 30 seconds.
Not sure how this will apply.
5) Considering melody will be chosen, no participant can claim his composition as original. This is a grey area. Needs discussion...
I hardly think this is an issue. We're talking about 30 second clips for an experiment. I don't think anyone will be posting this stuff on their websites! And if someone feels worried that their sample melody might get ripped off in this little experiment, then don't submit one.
So the main issue is, are we allowing for any compositional originality or are we sticking note for note. This decision will influence the nature (and length) of the meody submitted as well as the nature of the orchestrations.
doug hazelrigg
05-10-2006, 03:10 PM
Why not just chose a melody... and forget any other rules? The reason I say this is, it'd be cool to see how many different ways one melody can be imagined. I think this would help expand the chops and provide insight to scorers, who need to re-imagine themes in new and interesting ways
FilmComposerZ
05-10-2006, 03:17 PM
[QUOTE=shnurgle]
1) Melody is fixed. Cannot be changed. i.e. Imagine yourself the orchestrator of John Williams. Forget about changing his melody. You must arrange, orchestrate and harmonize to the melody. This is just an example. You can do it ethnically, Rock, Pop, Symphonic, Duet, Vocal...whatever....
If you insist on note-for note matching then you must realize the supplied melody cannot be a two bar melody as suggested, but must be as long as you intend it from start to finish, and all orchestrations will be identical in length (in terms of notes, not time). In other words, a two bar melody under this condition will yeld a two bar orchestration. You are not allowing for any compositional development.[QUOTE=shnurgle]
Sounds good...how ever many bars necessary for melody is fine to me.
[QUOTE=shnurgle][I]2) Tempo may be adjusted. The only reason I think this is good is because I have heard up tempo melodies performed at slower tempos and they bring on a whole new meaning.
Agreed, definitely.
3) Key cannot be changed. Beat cannot be changed. In other words, Gmaj key with a 4/4 time signature must remain the same.
Disagree, key should be allowed to be changed. One of the fundamental tools of the arranger is negotiating harmony for the sake of interest and this includes key modulation. (but again this will all depend on the decision about #1)[QUOTE=shnurgle]
Good fundament. Agree also
[QUOTE=shnurgle][I]4) Piece must be at least 30 seconds.
Not sure how this will apply.[QUOTE=shnurgle]
OK, however long melody is. Can develope after that point. New harmonizations
[QUOTE=shnurgle][I]5) Considering melody will be chosen, no participant can claim his composition as original. This is a grey area. Needs discussion...
I hardly think this is an issue. We're talking about 30 second clips for an experiment. I don't think anyone will be posting this stuff on their websites! And if someone feels worried that their sample melody might get ripped off in this little experiment, then don't submit one.[QUOTE=shnurgle][I]
Good one...
[QUOTE=shnurgle][I]So the main issue is, are we allowing for any compositional originality or are we sticking note for note. This decision will influence the nature (and length) of the meody submitted as well as the nature of the orchestrations[QUOTE=shnurgle][I]
Note for note, with ornaments would work to embellish a tad the melody...ie glissandos, arpeggios, trills, etc...
If all agree, we'll start a new topic in the music section and start submitting...
guy theaker
05-10-2006, 04:27 PM
:D
chocothrax
05-10-2006, 05:04 PM
Why not just chose a melody... and forget any other rules? The reason I say this is, it'd be cool to see how many different ways one melody can be imagined. I think this would help expand the chops and provide insight to scorers, who need to re-imagine themes in new and interesting ways
That is a good idea.
dcoscina
05-10-2006, 06:52 PM
That is a good idea.
Let's use Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin! ;)
Or maybe Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet theme. I think it would be cool to take something so canonized in our collective musical conscious and manipulate it to test all of our chops.
chocothrax
05-10-2006, 07:24 PM
Let's use Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin! ;)
Or maybe Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet theme. I think it would be cool to take something so canonized in our collective musical conscious and manipulate it to test all of our chops.
I think it would be better to not do that. :)
Daryl
05-11-2006, 02:30 AM
Let's use Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin! ;)
Or maybe Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet theme. I think it would be cool to take something so canonized in our collective musical conscious and manipulate it to test all of our chops.
They are both still in copyright.......
D
shnurgle
05-11-2006, 07:42 AM
They are both still in copyright.......
No, that's not true. Remember it was a big story. On his death bed, right after he had the stroke, Ol' Prokof relinquished all rights because he hated his family.
Here it is, scribbled at the bottom of his will in pencil, dated 5th March, 1953:
My family is gay yo, mad gay. Therefore I hereby give them "the Heisman" as far as royalties on this bitch are concerned. If anyone has a problem with that, you can kiss creamy white cheeks. Stalin forevs yo! PAYCE!!!!
TheVamp
05-11-2006, 09:18 AM
Shit, dudes, you guys should just use the opening of Beethoven's Fifth, then. Talk about something canonized in the collective musical consciousness. Plus, it'll be hours of fun! Man, I'd love to hear you guys go off on that. :D
Jeff Hayat
05-11-2006, 09:21 AM
No, that's not true. Remember it was a big story. On his death bed, right after he had the stroke, Ol' Prokof relinquished all rights because he hated his family.
Here it is, scribbled at the bottom of his will in pencil, dated 5th March, 1953:
Quote:
My family is gay yo, mad gay. Therefore I hereby give them "the Heisman" as far as royalties on this bitch are concerned. If anyone has a problem with that, you can kiss creamy white cheeks. Stalin forevs yo! PAYCE!!!!
Umm, didn't he spell 'bitch' -- 'biatch'??? Yeah - I think he did. :cool:
dcoscina
05-11-2006, 12:04 PM
not to bring things back to sanity but didn't Doug and Nick have an issue with the liberal use expletives on this site. :p
FilmComposerZ
05-11-2006, 05:55 PM
Why not just chose a melody... and forget any other rules? The reason I say this is, it'd be cool to see how many different ways one melody can be imagined. I think this would help expand the chops and provide insight to scorers, who need to re-imagine themes in new and interesting ways
Let's go with what Doug has said in this post...
All agree?
Pablo
tgfoo
05-11-2006, 08:58 PM
Doug's suggestion sounds good to me too. So when do we get our first melody?
PaulR
05-12-2006, 05:14 AM
I've got a simple tune/melody you can orchestrate if you want. In 3 parts and very simple.
Jeff Hayat
05-12-2006, 06:35 AM
Are wo going to vote on which melody to use, or are we just going to go with whatever is posted first?
New thread, or keep it here?
Deadline?
Are wo going to vote on which melody to use, or are we just going to go with whatever is posted first?
New thread, or keep it here?
Deadline?
I reckon we take it in turns to provide a melody - not MIDI, but notated, and have a deadline of 2 or 3 days.
Jeff Hayat
05-12-2006, 08:37 AM
2-3 days? - Wow, you're tough! :D
2-3 days? - Wow, you're tough! :D
If all we're doing is arranging a melody that's already been provided, it's hardly gonna take weeks - is it?!
Jeff Hayat
05-12-2006, 09:05 AM
If all we're doing is arranging a melody that's already been provided, it's hardly gonna take weeks - is it?!
Well, some of us...
WORK FOR A LIVING....
!
:p
But you are right, if it is under a minute it shouldn't take too long.
I've got a simple tune/melody you can orchestrate if you want. In 3 parts and very simple.
Cool - this could be our first 'challenge' if you'd be kind enough to provide it.
Well, some of us...
WORK FOR A LIVING....
As will I, when I graduate in 6 weeks from student doss-aboutery. But what will I be? A spaceman, a dustman, a chimney sweep, a composer?
placo
05-12-2006, 10:53 AM
hi,
I try to read and understand all your post, this project is very exiting, I think it can be very interested.
Just one question, the choice of the tune of the melody, and especially the choice of the instrument. If you play the melody with a horn, a clarinet or a violon and if you want to be realistic it should'nt be the same key.
So it could be more interested ( and difficult ) to have a melody and a instrument.
- only a theme and we are free for the key or
- a melody and a instrument ( we could just have the choice of solo or tutti )
I hope you understand what I mean
bye
hi,
I try to read and understand all your post, this project is very exiting, I think it can be very interested.
Just one question, the choice of the tune of the melody, and especially the choice of the instrument. If you play the melody with a horn, a clarinet or a violon and if you want to be realistic it should'nt be the same key.
So it could be more interested ( and difficult ) to have a melody and a instrument.
- only a theme and we are free for the key or
- a melody and a instrument ( we could just have the choice of solo or tutti )
I hope you understand what I mean
bye
Surely just the melody. Leave people to be free to choose how the melody is presented.
PaulR
05-13-2006, 02:57 AM
Cool - this could be our first 'challenge' if you'd be kind enough to provide it.
No worries Wilx - although you may need to ask Doug and Nick on the rules.
I will provide it - although I don't have anyway of of putting it up. And how do people want this to be played? Just a one line tune with some bass - or actual scoring - or both?
Jeff Hayat
05-15-2006, 06:58 AM
You can email it to me, and I will host it on my site.
I think it is best to have a one-line melody and that's it. No orchestation - no orchestral parts - just the melody, be it on bass, guitar, violin, piano, whatever...
Cheers.
Counterpoint
05-15-2006, 10:50 PM
I'd be up for this too, provided I can find the time to work on it!
I agree with Doug's post... just the melody with no rules on how to work with it. The only rule I would suggest is that everyone has to post their entries on the day of the deadline and not sooner. Then we'll know that nobody has been influenced by anyone else's work and all the entries will be "pure" attempts.
This is a great idea. :)
- Matt
shnurgle
05-19-2006, 12:11 PM
This is a great idea.
And like all great ideas....it died. (apparently). No matter, Ol shnurg--rock no longer has the time to participate.
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