Odd transpositions of choir parts

[strawinsky]

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere. I've finally found the time to look into SC properly, and would like to use it in a piece I'm working on. I've loaded up R versions of SATB into 4 Kompakts, hosted by Kore on a slave Mac. This will then be sent to my master Mac running Logic.

I've not at this stage launched Wordbuilder, but it seems that all but the Altos play in a different pitch than they should. For example, the piece I'm working on is in C; but I have to play G sharp to get a C note with the Sopranos! Similarly, the Basses and Tenors are out, but by differing amounts.


Am I missing something here? I did a quick search, but couldn't find anything about this, and haven't yet come across it in the manual. Thanks for your time.

[wesleydevore]

The SATB templet is specifically designed to use Logic with Wordbuilder. Per the set-up instructions, you need to launch the SATB Wordbuilder file first. If you want to use Choirs without Wordbuilder, you do not have to use this templet, just create a new Audio Instrument in your Logic autoload, launch Symphonic Choirs as an Audio Units plugin and load either an instrument or a non-Wordbuilder multi.

[strawinsky]

Thanks, Wesley. As I said, I loaded up R multis,as per instructions, page 35 of manual. But i can see from what you're saying and reading on further that this is more complex than I'd anticipated. Think I'm going to have to revert to VOTA for this: simply don't have time to invest right now. Thanks.

[mkiz]

Not sure if this is related, but from time to time, I find a strange transposition with EWQLSO Platinum with Sonar 5 PE. Intermittently, and not frequently, when I hit play, some tracks get transposed. If I press a key on the Kompakt player for each articulation I have loaded, it makes a glissando sound to the correct pitch, and then the articulation is re-transposed to the correct key. As I said, this doesn't happen often, and may be due to other factors in my set-up (I use FX-Teleport).

This is probably not helpful, but I wanted to post this issue as well.

[Sam Fischmann]

Hello,

Let's see if I can clarify what Wesley's saying. Any Multi that begins with WB requires WordBuilder to play properly. You cannot play WB multis properly without using WordBuilder.

If you want to use WordBuilder with Logic directly, we have a template posted on our FAQ at support.soundsonline.com. If you want to use WordBuilder and Choirs on a separate machine running Kore, you can use the template still, but you would remove the instrument tracks in Logic, and you would set the output MIDI ports in WordBuilder to go to your Kore machine instead of back into Logic.

Any multi or patch that does not contain WB in the name is like any normal virtual instrument. Load it in your host, and play it on a keyboard.

-Sam

[strawinsky]

Sam, Wesley: many thanks for the extra-manual info. Thsi is a great help, and I will look into this tomorrow. I really do want to get this working, not only for this current piece, but for the future. The only slight confusion I have is your last sentence. I would still have to play SC voices from a keyboard, even if it's running from a slave machine into Logic; so, I would need to create Kore tracks in Logic. I already have several Kore multis set up and playable over LAN, which run successfully with other Kore-hosted instruments.

Just took a look at the Logic template: that looks great, and thanks to EW for their trouble there.

[PaulLawler]

This is a problem im having too but i dont think any of the replies cover it.I use the SATB template with logic but for no reason at all some of the choirs are transposed off pitch when they are loaded, by as much as a 5th, there is no indication of anything being transposed anywhere.I dont know what happens, plus sometimes the vocal ranges change too ?
im using the latest version of Logic etc ..

[Sam Fischmann]

The template is only for WordBuilder. If you load the template and then play a normal patch the pitches will be transposed.
Using a WB Multi from the New Multi menu - Use WordBuilder - Use Template

Loading any other patch - Do not use WordBuilder - Do not use Template

-Sam

[strawinsky]

Yes, Sam, thanks: I did know that. I now have SC up and limping within Kore. It's taken a lot of fiddling and trial and error, frankly. I tried it in Kontakt, as a stand alone, and couldn't get a peep out of it. The same with Logic: not a sound! I took the trouble to delve into the post archives and noted that some other people have experienced this. I have spent several years building different Logic templates for different projects, mainly TV and Film, so the idea of importing my multifarious environment layers into the SC .lso....well, it isn't going to happen. I did try it the other way around, but,as yet, I've been unable to get a spound out of the Choirs.

I'm sure this will get resolved: I need to sit down when I get more time and get to the bottom it. Kore seems to be hosting things quite well now, after some very bizarre initial behaviour. Sometimes the allocated SC channels would start changing for no apparent reason, and I'd suddenly and mysteriously lose sound. The only way I could restore SC audio was to quit and relaunch Logic, despite the fact that I'm running Kore on a different Mac. But things are definitely settling down now, and I appreciate the Logic environment you've put together, which I certain will work for me eventually.


This is obviously a very deep library, but I'm a bit disappointed by Wordbuilder's apparent unreliability. I could be me of course, but I will say that I use a complex multi- computer system, day in, day out, running a lot of EW and many other top software synths and libraries, and SC is the only one that has given me so many problems. I love it though, and have started laying in some Latin chorus on a piece, and can hear its great potential immediately. BTW: the transposition problem is history, since I have WB up a running now.


Thanks for your time.

[Sam Fischmann]

All WordBuilder does is send MIDI messages. Here is the concept:

MIDI from source -> MIDI to WordBuilder -> MIDI to Choirs

In a VST Rack, such as KORE

MIDI from source -> MIDI to WordBuilder -> MIDI to host -> MIDI to Choirs Plugin

In a sequencer:

MIDI from source -> MIDI to sequencer -> MIDI to WordBuilder -> MIDI to sequencer -> MIDI to Choirs plugin.

I'm posting some particular instructions for those using Logic on one computer and the plugin on another next....

[Sam Fischmann]

Here are what should be the instructions for getting WordBuilder to work with Choirs and KORE on another machine. These instructions should work without using any of our Logic templates.

1) On your Logic machine, open WordBuilder. Then, open Logic.

2) Create a MIDI track. Set the port for this MIDI track to virtual WordBuilder 1. Choose Tenors.

3) In WordBuilder, set the input to VWB1, and the output to the MIDI port which goes to your other machine running KORE.

4) Inside KORE, load Choirs, load a tenors multi. Make sure that choirs is receiving all MIDI data (no filtering) on all MIDI channels on the corresponding MIDI in port from step 3 (this port depends on your studio setup).

Hope this helps.

-Sam

[strawinsky]

Thanks for the clear data flow description, Sam, which I understand from the outset, however, it remains that I have experienced unpredictable behaviour, which appears to be stablising. Not really blaming EW here, but simply pointing out my relatively trouble-free system and the recent complication, that is Wordbuilder, seemingly; 'cos everything was Hunky Dory before. It has settled down though, and I know that is not logical in terms of binary digits, but it seems to be the case, and not a precedent, since the black arts of computer management have deceived me before, as if there was a michievous mind at work!

I followed your excellent FAQ instruction on this very matter of standalone operation, and it has stood me well.

I'm a lot more confident today about things than 24 hours ago...

Many thanks!

[PaulLawler]

The template is only for WordBuilder. If you load the template and then play a normal patch the pitches will be transposed.
Using a WB Multi from the New Multi menu - Use WordBuilder - Use Template

Loading any other patch - Do not use WordBuilder - Do not use Template

-Sam

Hi Sam

Im really not sure what you mean ? This is exactly what I do:
Load wordbuilder
load logic with the SATB template song taken from this forum, then load in whichever Choir Multi I need (or all 4 sections if needed) yet sometimes the choirs are not at pitch,
What am i doing wrong ?

[Sam Fischmann]

Do they actually sound at the wrong pitch, or are you just looking at the keys on the Kompakt player?

http://support.soundsonline.com/faq/index.php?action=artikel&cat=2&id=5&artlang=en

Are you playing on the MIDI track, not the Instrument track? Is the proper voice selected in WordBuilder?

-Sam

[PaulLawler]

Do they actually sound at the wrong pitch, or are you just looking at the keys on the Kompakt player?

http://support.soundsonline.com/faq/index.php?action=artikel&cat=2&id=5&artlang=en

Are you playing on the MIDI track, not the Instrument track? Is the proper voice selected in WordBuilder?

-Sam

Hi

They sound at the wrong pitch, I dont take any notice of the kompakt player, the proper voice is selected and I play the midi track.
The words are sung clearly, no problem, but the voices are transposed to odd pitches, not always the same. There's no indication anywhere that an external source has caused it ie: no transposition set in logic or on Kompakt. I have to transpose in Logic so I can play things at the right pitch.

It doesnt change either, once I use it in a song and find its in the wrong key, it stays that way regardless of how many times i reload.Plus each choir voice (in their respective wordbuilder selection) can be at a different pitch.The sopranos could a 5th too high and the tenors and 3rd for example.

It doesnt always happen either ?

[Sam Fischmann]

My only advice is to make sure that the proper voice is loaded in the track (sopranos->sopranos, altos->altos), and that four cables were drawn correctly in your environment.

Please run through the PDF that comes with the template one more time.

If it's still not working for you, please send an email to techsupport@eastwestsounds.com.

-Sam

[PaulLawler]

My only advice is to make sure that the proper voice is loaded in the track (sopranos->sopranos, altos->altos), and that four cables were drawn correctly in your environment.

Please run through the PDF that comes with the template one more time.

If it's still not working for you, please send an email to techsupport@eastwestsounds.com.

-Sam

yeah all the basic stuff is set right which is why sometimes it works, sometimes not. Maybe a bug ? I'll write in when i get a minute.