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wine888riter
03-02-2016, 09:33 PM
After thinking about it, I didn't really want to ask the general "What is the best DAW" for opinions on that, since I am more interested in a specific use.

I'm not saying DAWS aren't made for orchestration, just that the programmer is often working with the end user in mind.

So, like the first interests may be focused toward electronic, or live band recording, rather than an orchestra.

My theory is someone who was working from an orchestration concept would probably end up in a different place on where they put emphasis in design and usage, including thinking about all peripheral interaction and related gear.

So, is there a DAW, where orchestration is a primary concern focus than just the thing they get to when they're done on other related material.

I'm not meaning to dis any of the DAW makers, they are fine at what they do.
And you can generally do anything you need to do, I just feel like the product can feel like it's designed for other purposes when something is more difficult or awkward to accomplish than it needs to be.

Jay Asher
03-03-2016, 06:49 AM
I think that is a fair statement. As Deep Throat in "All The President's Men" said, "Follow the money."

Composers doing orchestral simulation are not their biggest target group, far more pop/rock, EDM, Hip Hop, etc.

I have used Logic Pro happily since 1.0 but there are features in Cubase, Digital Performer, and Pro Tools that I would love, but then they all lack certain features in Logic Pro that I love (especially with VE Pro).

So ya puts your money down and ya takes yer chances." :)

jspencer
03-03-2016, 08:09 AM
I think if you're a true "orchestrator", you tend use a notation program...or good old pencil and paper. The DAW market loves guys like me, who orchestrate purely from ear (ie; don't read or write music).

What specifically would you like to see in a DAW?

joemmac
03-04-2016, 11:46 AM
Logic feels a little like one of these sometimes but it's still my GoTo.
http://i.imgur.com/pOtN1m8.jpg

I'd probably still use Finale if I ever had to print something though.

trumpoz
03-04-2016, 01:51 PM
I haven't looked at Pro Tools in a couple of years. But when I last did I nearly swapped from due to the semi-integration of the Sibelius notation in to the DAW. There is a market for that (in my semipro opinion) - the first company that can successfully integrate powerful notation and DAW will possibly recoup the $$$ invested to develop such a program.

Jay Asher
03-04-2016, 01:54 PM
It already exists. It is Logic Pro.
I have printed out literally thousands of parts and scores with it for myself and other composer's recording sessions over the years.

Shad0wLandsUK
03-05-2016, 06:02 PM
What are those things you are mentioning that Logic has for VE Pro compared to others. As I am thinking about getting Cubase also to go with my Logic Pro and Ableton.

jspencer
03-05-2016, 06:27 PM
What are those things you are mentioning that Logic has for VE Pro compared to others. As I am thinking about getting Cubase also to go with my Logic Pro and Ableton.

If you are already versed in Logic X, don't bother learning Cubase unless you absolutely need to...it's a completely different workflow.

Jeff Hayat
03-05-2016, 06:27 PM
I'm not saying DAWS aren't made for orchestration... .

They are made for orchestration, what they are not made for is notation

The best way to go is a sequencer you are really comfortable with (Cubase, Logic, whatever), and use a notation program alongside it. SB is working on a notation app that is supposedly going to be integrated with Cubase somehow; I am looking forward to see what the offering is.

Cheers.

pkm
03-06-2016, 12:10 AM
It depends on what you mean by "orchestration".

Just like composing, orchestrating is done with the mind, not a piece of software. A sequencer is used to facilitate the realization of a composition as audio, and notation software is used to facilitate the realization of a composition visually.

So, what do you mean by orchestration? Orchestration like what you'd hire an orchestrator for? (i.e. orchestration plus preparation for a copyist). Or do you just mean writing for orchestral instruments?

Generally, nowadays, an orchestrator would use notation software, and a composer would use a sequencer. None of the major notation apps or sequencers are more or less suited to writing for orchestra, but the major ones that composers and orchestrators use are Finale or Sibelius (notation) and Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, or DP (sequencers).

I know what people are going to say about Pro Tools, but especially since PT12 it is no less suited for composing than any of the others, and it has a number of advantages I'd love to see integrated into Logic and all the other sequencers. The days of Pro Tools being "worse for MIDI" than the others is gone.

They're all the same. They all have their advantages and disadvantages, and you need to try them out to see what best corresponds to how your brain works and the workflow you'd like to use.

Jay literally wrote the book on notation in Logic, so he's gotta be the biggest expert out there on the subject, but I do find that while it's perfectly capable of notation, Sibelius and Finale are more streamlined towards that kind of work.

jdmcox
03-06-2016, 05:25 AM
I wrote the free Windows MIDI Sequencer/DAW, PianoRollComposer, over the past several years, for the purpose of writing orchestral music. It now works great with Hollywood Orchestra.
http://jdmcox.com/

wcreed51
03-06-2016, 05:27 AM
> SB is working on a notation app that is supposedly going to be integrated with Cubase somehow

I don't think they've said anything about integrating with Cubase; certainly not initially.

Jay Asher
03-06-2016, 06:43 AM
Jay literally wrote the book on notation in Logic, so he's gotta be the biggest expert out there on the subject, but I do find that while it's perfectly capable of notation, Sibelius and Finale are more streamlined towards that kind of work.

Absolutely true.

jspencer
03-06-2016, 09:32 AM
I know what people are going to say about Pro Tools, but especially since PT12 it is no less suited for composing than any of the others, and it has a number of advantages I'd love to see integrated into Logic and all the other sequencers. The days of Pro Tools being "worse for MIDI" than the others is gone.

They're all the same. They all have their advantages and disadvantages, and you need to try them out to see what best corresponds to how your brain works and the workflow you'd like to use.



I tried PT12 recently, and was surprised to discover this. It's actually pretty good with MIDI...finally!

pkm
03-06-2016, 04:30 PM
The only thing I'm really missing is a way to split both a clip (region) and the notes within that clip with one command in the arrange window. Then my life would be great
Okay and to be able to click and drag midi automation nodes to create straight diagonal lines like you can with all other automation without having to use the straight line pencil tool.

But I have similar gripes with all the other sequencers!

MichaelShapiro
03-07-2016, 07:35 AM
Logic has a longstanding notation capacity, if that's what's meant by orchestration. It's sufficient for simpler projects, and if you grit your teeth you could do a complex score that way. But software like Sibelius is far better suited for extensive notation work.

guitarpicker
09-02-2016, 12:56 PM
"orchestrating is done with the mind, not a piece of software."

dragsquares
09-07-2016, 11:49 AM
orchestrating is done with the mind, not a piece of software.

Absolutely true, but as has been said, the workflow can be made easier with specific commands (voice-splitting, for example) or features (nesting multiple midi destinations within a track) that not all the DAWs have, and there's no reason not to make it easier on the beleaguered mind of the orchestrator. I love working in ProTools, but for anything requiring a score I change horses once it's done. I've started projects in Cubase before because I knew their destination was paper, and that worked great - and it sounds like Logic would go there too - but Sibelius has many great and specific features. Very interested in Dorico though. And, you know, Notion on the iPad is pretty fun too.

kstevege
11-08-2016, 03:50 PM
I tried PT12 recently, and was surprised to discover this. It's actually pretty good with MIDI...finally!

I use Pro Tools 12 and the midi is fine. The only thing Pro Tools is missing for orchestration though is an instrument folder which would be nice because I put different articulations on different tracks and the track count builds up pretty fast

Shad0wLandsUK
11-08-2016, 06:37 PM
If you are already versed in Logic X, don't bother learning Cubase unless you absolutely need to...it's a completely different workflow.
Just came across this jspencer. Took the dive and got the demo of Cubase 8.5 Pro. I am much more at home with it for sure. Workflow is faster for me, compared to LPX. I must say though, you are right about not taking that dive, unless absolutely necessary.

However, I started on Cubase 4 and then bought 5 back at College. I only went to Logic because the University I went to urged us towards that. Ever since then I have wondered if I would be better on Cubase and now I know.

I prefer using multiports, the multiple automation lanes is a must also and some other things. So I am happy with the change. But the grass is not much greener as the CPU and VI handling is not as great as Logic when it comes to multi-core balance and efficiency. Still, things can only get better right... ;)