11 Years old?

[Neilfactory]

AWESOME.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve8ivyEaoNQ

>Neil.

[Clockworker]

Ooooook... *Get out of his mic*

Bouhouhouhou!! :(

[nikolas]

It's shame...

another young girls life ruined from such a young age.

A shame...
PS. Voice rocks!

[Neilfactory]

Ooooook... *Get out of his mic*

Bouhouhouhou!! :(

?

[Neilfactory]

It's shame...

another young girls life ruined from such a young age.

A shame...
PS. Voice rocks!

Yes, agree but maybe no.And She has all the same an incredible voice!

>Neil

[nikolas]

I sure hope not, but still it already appears that she has 'confidence' and the will for promoting herself (maybe through her parents).

I still hope that she won't be ruined... After all there are around 10 in all history examples of child wonders that made it up and did become good persons (unlike mozart for example who appears that he was an arse...)

As for her voice, I already said that the voice rocks! Indeed great find Neil. Thanks

[Neilfactory]

That's right her young age is dangerous, hope she will be fine.

>Neil

[james hansson]

very impressiv :eek:

[nickysnd]

I sure hope not, but still it already appears that she has 'confidence' and the will for promoting herself (maybe through her parents).

I still hope that she won't be ruined... After all there are around 10 in all history examples of child wonders that made it up and did become good persons (unlike mozart for example who appears that he was an arse...)

As for her voice, I already said that the voice rocks! Indeed great find Neil. Thanks
I'm all for "arses" if that's what it takes to make a Mozart, a Beethoven, or a Lennon! ;)

I think that girl has all that it takes to become a big star: voice, self-control, commitment to excellence, ambition, attitude. And I can feel the hard work behind her performance. Most impressive! I bet she's gonna be in business for a long time.

Anyways, she's got all my admiration!

[nikolas]

I definately prefer people who can actually give an interesting interview, or talk to other people, even without a great voice, than people who are magnificent in one sector but sadly are bad in all (or most) others.

Now don't get me wrong, I dont' know here and I still admire her, but the values you give to her, which I'm sure she has, are all values for a 20 year old, not an 11 one ;) I mean determination and everything else? I wanted to be a teacher when I was 11. Careful! Not saying it's not happening or that there aren't kid wonders, but it is the usual problem:

What happens when the kid wonder is not longer a kid? He's no longer a kid wonder. And if supression has made the kid a wonder, then there could be a problem. Not to mention that there are better ways than going to that kind of show and exposing your self, and your kid, to all the media possible.

Again the voice is great and hope she will be great and happy in her life. :)

[Counterpoint]

Yeh, pretty amazing voice control for someone that age... but who knows? She could be 26 and just look like a 11 year old girl. She wouldn't be the first to lie about her age. :) That's the interesting thing about show business is you never know what the real story is. Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see, eh? ;)

Still, assuming that the facts are true, that's a really impressive performance. Very mature and with a good stage presence.

I hope that it's natural talent and her own interest and not because she has overachieving parents.

Thanks for sharing,

- Matt

[Neilfactory]

She could be 26 and just look like a 11 year old girl.

Yeah, i think that's THE problem!

>Neil

[nickysnd]

I definately prefer people who can actually give an interesting interview, or talk to other people, even without a great voice, than people who are magnificent in one sector but sadly are bad in all (or most) others.

I am more interested on what I hear/see on a stage than on interviews or on personal life of artists. Or on presumptions about what kind of personality those artists might have. Music is all that counts to me. I unconditionally love all the mentioned "arses", and all the musically gifted "arses"! And I keep the distance (most of them are dead anyways), but I also keep their CDs handy. :D

Now don't get me wrong, I dont' know here and I still admire her, but the values you give to her, which I'm sure she has, are all values for a 20 year old, not an 11 one ;) I mean determination and everything else? I wanted to be a teacher when I was 11. Careful! Not saying it's not happening or that there aren't kid wonders, but it is the usual problem:

What happens when the kid wonder is not longer a kid? He's no longer a kid wonder. And if supression has made the kid a wonder, then there could be a problem. Not to mention that there are better ways than going to that kind of show and exposing your self, and your kid, to all the media possible.

Again the voice is great and hope she will be great and happy in her life. :)

A lot of assumptions going on here! What can I say? I prefer to assume that that girl is a good person, but I wouldn't really care how she is in private. ;) I wouldn't call it a "wonder" though, I don't believe in "wonders", I believe in innate abilities, in hard work, and in strong will to succeed.

"Exposed to media"? Is media evil? Where should she be allowed to sing then, in the shower? :p
I think it would be a pitty to keep such a gem hidden.

[nikolas]

wow, nicky you love debates! :) here goes:

Music for me is communication (and for you as well). But music is also an abstract art (when no lyrics are there). When the lyrics are there the message comes from the person who wrote the lyrics. The singer is a carrier simply. I personally don't value the carrieers soooo much as the creators, but this is another story. What is interesting is that the carrier needs to have a personality of his/her own in order to be able to carry the message succesfully. And a bad person (for example egocentric) would have difficulties in that sector.

The only assumption (and blame my fast thinking/typing) is the word sure (at the I'm sure she has). The values come from your post, not mine ;) All I'm saying is the values that you give to her (which logicaly she does have, but one cannot be too sure, if you want politcal correct posts), are values for older people most of the times and not 11 year olds (assuming she is so). No assumption here yet!

tHe fact that she has such a mature voice and such control on her voice is a wonder to me, the same kind of wonder that maybe Listz had. That kind of wonder.

And anyway my point is that: You believe in strong will to succeed. I agree! But when you were 11 you knew what you wanted to do and never backed up? Never thought you were wrong? Never ever dared to dream something different? Cause the determination you're talking about is not "I practice a couple of hours every day". It's more like "All I do is sing and have diet all day"... So is an 11 year old entitled to have such determination in such young age?

I have 2 children. If they have some talents I will surely try to make them blossom without pressure, while making sure that this is what they want to do. And if they want to become musicians, I'll double check it, in case they are influenced by me.

As for the media, it can blow your mind. I simlply have to believe that 99.9% of 11 year olds (maybe she's the 0.01%, who knows...) would get their heads blown from the exposure in the media. At such a young age there should be some protection, not legal protection to 'prtoect children' and rubbish, but from the family (imHo). Other than that if a parent feels that a child 11 year is ready to go out on it's own and face the real world 1 to 1, well ok then... Maybe the child is ready, but this again is the 0.01 imHo.

Depends on what someone wants really. I value personality more than the ability to entertain, without this being absolute (meaning that I also value the ability to entertain in some cases... Nothing is black or white really :D).

End of story for me:

I say that 51% the kid will 'suffer' from being exposed to that young age to the media, while 49% she won't! That's all I'm saying. You believe it's the othe rway around?

As for the "arses" there was only 1 arse in my posts, and that was Mozart, and he served his purpose as an example for my posts. Don't take things further than they are :)

[Counterpoint]

As for the "arses" there was only 1 arse in my posts, and that was Mozart, and he served his purpose as an example for my posts. Don't take things further than they are :)

Hehe, Mozart has got to be one of my absolute favourite classical composers. I suppose he was a bit of a bastard though... :D

Cheers,

- Matt

[Neilfactory]

MOZART is MY favorit classical composer.

>Neil

[nickysnd]

wow, nicky you love debates! :)

Well, I guess I love debates at least as much as you seem to like speculations. :)

I agree that the negative possibilities you described may come to pass, we both agree that that would be very unfortunate, and that it is an issue that requires special attention. I assume her parents love her and give her all the support required. OTOH, I do believe that each person, each artist, and especially such a gifted artist has his own destiny, his own luck, and his own right to take his chances to fulfill his ambitions. As about her age and what and what she is not able to do at her age, I'd say that at her age I can't see many children capable of what she's doing, so... this makes me assume that she maybe has superior capabilities also in other areas, such as discernment over what's best for her.

You also assume external pressure, a good point if it turns to be true and excessive, but maybe "pressure" is only your distant perception, maybe she enjoys this media exposure and this whole experience... again, just speculation - how about excitement instead of pressure? We could not evaluate anything about her inner experience of all these. I mean, we can equally presume positive things, why expecting the worst? You Nikolas wish her best, I know, but you don't really seem to expect the best to happen to her - and here is where I beg to differ. I don't wish her best - I expect her to be the best singer in her generation. Of course, if I was her father, I would have hired a good psychologist to take care of some issues, and I presume her father actually did that.

OT - you are right about the "arses", sorry for confusing, it was me who added Beethoven and Lennon to Mozart. And I can add some more, like Wagner, or Miles Davies, for now. Which wouldn't stop me to totally love their music and their achievents and influence on the evolution of music. When comes to music, being nice in private with a few people seems to me less important than bringing joy and lifting the spirit of people for generations. Again, I will never cease to admire all the "arses" that proved capable of that.

Peace.

[nickysnd]

Hehe, Mozart has got to be one of my absolute favourite classical composers. I suppose he was a bit of a bastard though... :D

Cheers,

- Matt
My absolute favorite too.

Now, how many people may call him a bastard, and based on what? - Maybe on Mozart's straightforward attitude and his outspoken and honest way to speak up? Or maybe based on his silly jokes? How many "silly jokers" have 1% of Mozart's musical brains?

And how many people would call him a brilliant composer, and based on what? - Maybe on how much they like his music?

[Counterpoint]

As about her age and what and what she is not able to do at her age, I'd say that at her age I can't see many children capable of what she's doing, so... this makes me assume that she maybe has superior capabilities also in other areas, such as discernment over what's best for her.

Yes, and if this is so, then all the power to her... but history has given many examples of individuals who simply can't take being put in the spotlight at such a young age. A certain level of maturity and understanding of the magnitude of "being a celebrity", as well as a certain level of personal responsibility, are required by people who are in the public eye. Nikolas was just pointing out that the odds are not in her favour given the number of child prodigies that have ended up psychologically damaged as a result.

It's not just about the masses of adoring fans that have sprung up in her wake... there's also alot of unwanted attention (stalkers, haters...) that goes with it. Not to mention the media who are standing outside your door just waiting for you to screw up so they can plaster your photo all over the newspaper and make a ton of money from your mistakes! Call it a social failing that our society seems to love fallen angels. If she's ready for that, then great... I guess that's up to her and her parents. All we can do here is speculate...

You also assume external pressure, a good point if it turns to be true and excessive, but maybe "pressure" is only your distant perception, maybe she enjoys this media exposure and this whole experience... again, just speculation - how about excitement instead of pressure? We could not evaluate anything about her inner experience of all these. I mean, we can equally presume positive things, why expecting the worst? You Nikolas wish her best, I know, but you don't really seem to expect the best to happen to her - and here is where I beg to differ. I don't wish her best - I expect her to be the best singer in her generation. Of course, if I was her father, I would have hired a good psychologist to take care of some issues, and I presume her father actually did that.

Expecting "the best to happen to her" is like expecting to win a lottery. "The worst" is statistically far more likely to happen, unfortunately. It has nothing to do with being pessimistic. It takes a certain type of person to live as a celebrity and those people are few and far between. I would argue that quite a few of today's celebrities don't actually have what it takes and end up addicted to drugs or shooting themselves because they want to escape from that life. Heck, many possible Hollywood stars get out of there before they hit their fame because they are terrified of the consequences. As soon as a person becomes a celebrity, their private life becomes the interest of our voyeuristic society.

I wish that your idealized concepts were the reality and that the art was the important part and that the artist's private life remained private. It just doesn't seem to work that way... Just look at the magazine/newspaper headlines next time you're in a grocery store.

OT - you are right about the "arses", sorry for confusing, it was me who added Beethoven and Lennon to Mozart. And I can add some more, like Wagner, or Miles Davies, for now. Which wouldn't stop me to totally love their music and their achievents and influence on the evolution of music. When comes to music, being nice in private with a few people seems to me less important than bringing joy and lifting the spirit of people for generations. Again, I will never cease to admire all the "arses" that proved capable of that.


I agree... what a person is like in their private life really shouldn't have any bearing on the work they produce. Some of the greatest achievements in music have been created by "arses". Beethoven's a good example too... from the history books, I gather he wouldn't be an easy person to get along with. ;) He wrote some pretty amazing music though. It seems even Beethoven wasn't "safe" from the media!

Cheers,

- Matt

[Counterpoint]

My absolute favorite too.

I was amazed the first time I heard his first symphony. There's something there, even in such an early work of his.

Now, how many people may call him a bastard, and based on what? - Maybe on Mozart's straightforward attitude and his outspoken and honest way to speak up? Or maybe based on his silly jokes? How many "silly jokers" have 1% of Mozart's musical brains?

Well, the history books might not use the word "bastard" to describe him, but I think that aspect of him is more due to his womanizing and all-night partying when he had a family to raise...

And how many people would call him a brilliant composer, and based on what? - Maybe on how much they like his music?

Exactly... "brilliant composer" is a purely subjective thing. I've met people who hate Mozart and his music and will grow angry if they have to listen to any of it. I guess if people like that made up the general population then Mozart would have gone down in history as a real stinker!

I guess it's lucky for Mozart that more people liked his music than hated it. Who knows, if you believe in parallel universes, perhaps there is one where classical music became hated by all and avant-garde became the 'pop' genre! Wouldn't that be something?

Cheers,

- Matt

[nickysnd]

Well, the history books might not use the word "bastard" to describe him, but I think that aspect of him is more due to his womanizing and all-night partying when he had a family to raise...
Mozart was an unbelieveable hard worker. Maybe "womanizing and all-night partying" were things that he needed. Maybe he didn't need a family, and just stumbled into it, poor little fella... :p Who can say anything on these issues? I can't judge his morals.
I guess Beethoven has been more practical by not getting married. ;)
Or should I say - just luckier?... :D

[nickysnd]

It takes a certain type of person to live as a celebrity and those people are few and far between. I would argue that quite a few of today's celebrities don't actually have what it takes and end up addicted to drugs or shooting themselves because they want to escape from that life. Heck, many possible Hollywood stars get out of there before they hit their fame because they are terrified of the consequences. As soon as a person becomes a celebrity, their private life becomes the interest of our voyeuristic society.
Great point - Counterpoint! ;)

I didn't take into consideration how hard might be to manage the celebrity factor. But some people are or were doing fine with it, like Shania Twain, Celine Dion (wow, both Canadians...), let's see, Barbra Streisand, Stevie Wonder - Got him - that's a great example of a "wonder child" that did very well as a grown-up. My point is: Why should one assume and expect the worst, when the best is possible? Because others failed? OK, people are able to learn from failures, so hopefully this girl will be smart and lucky enough (and rich enough ;) ) to get around her some good people to protect her from that type of agressors.

What would be the other option? To hide her and allow her to only sing in the shower? :p

[Counterpoint]

Mozart was an unbelieveable hard worker. Maybe "womanizing and all-night partying" were things that he needed. Maybe he didn't need a family, and just stumbled into it, poor little fella... :p Who can say anything on these issues? I can't judge his morals.
I guess Beethoven has been more practical by not getting married. ;)
Or should I say - just luckier?... :D

Yeh, so I guess Beethoven is slightly less of a bastard than Mozart then (or is he a bigger bastard for removing his DNA from society?!). Hmm.. maybe we need a new thread for "Which composer was the biggest bastard?" :D

I think, in the end, we have to decide for ourselves if we are satisfied with the way that we lived our own lives (public opinion means nothing, actually). We are each put in a situation and we have to make our own decisions. For Mozart, he chose to have a family, and he chose his lifestyle... in the end, I wonder if he was happy with himself?

- Matt

[Counterpoint]

But some people are or were doing fine with it, like Shania Twain, Celine Dion (wow, both Canadians...), let's see, Barbra Streisand, Stevie Wonder - Got him - that's a great example of a "wonder child" that did very well as a grown-up. My point is: Why should one assume and expect the worst, when the best is possible? Because others failed? OK, people are able to learn from failures, so hopefully this girl will be smart and lucky enough (and rich enough ;) ) to get around her some good people to protect her from that type of agressors.

What would be the other option? To hide her and allow her to only sing in the shower? :p

True, but for every success story there are dozens, if not hundreds of examples of others who were not able to cope with it. Besides, there is a famous quote, "Prepare the worst, hope for the best"?

Let me use another example... let's say you've got an eleven year old child who can drive a car better than most other people. Should we give that child a driver's licence and let them drive around whenever they like? Maybe some people would say that we should, but I think that would be irresponsible to put a child into a driver's seat where they might have to make a life or death decision. 99.9% of eleven year olds are not mature enough to handle that kind of responsibility. So, despite having to disappoint that 0.01% of eleven year olds who are perfectly good drivers, we set a rule because the statistics tell us that life is safer if we impose restrictions.

So, if she and her parents understand what they might be getting into (the good and the bad)... then that is their choice and I wish them all the best. I just think that perhaps it might have been wiser to wait a few more years before they let her sing outside of the shower. ;) What they have allowed this child to do is a gamble on her future that puts her in potentially more danger than other eleven year olds.

Regards,

- Matt

[nikolas]

Of course, if I was her father, I would have hired a good psychologist to take care of some issues, and I presume her father actually did that.

Which bring me to the conclusion that you're a male! Yay! At last you're a he :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Now on that quote above lies the problem. I would never ever ever, no matter how gifted my kids are/were/will be, would do anything to make them need a good phychologist. ;)

Arses: I love music of Mozart, Beethoven and all the other "arses", and I do believe that their music is..."perfect" (especially Mozart who was my example ;))

No Idon't expect her the best, cause I do believe it's more likely that she will have a rather bad life than good,. Money <> happiness. Fame <> happiness . See where I'm going?

I think it's almost a give fact that being amazing in one sector, needs such devotion (and talent and everything else), that other secotrs will be lacking in life. This is usually what happens and it does make sense. Take a pianist who studies 12 hours every single day (including Christmas, Sundays, etc.) What kind of life (s)he would have? Communication skills? Sex life? But a great pianist (s)he would be non the less ;)

Is it worth it though?

For some it is, for other not! The variation in life. The Salt in life :D Everything is fine ;)

And either way this forum has come to life after you joined in! Thank you sooo much for that :D I love debates and sepculations (heck this is the internet, and you are a male probably... but I am speculating again...)!!!!!!!

lol

[nickysnd]

Which bring me to the conclusion that you're a male!
As to me, people's gender is an insignificant issue on internet forums.

No Idon't expect her the best, cause I do believe it's more likely that she will have a rather bad life than good,. Money <> happiness. Fame <> happiness . See where I'm going?
Oh, happiness... So that is all about - you are concerned about the poor child's happiness! Money - not good. Fame - not good. They can ruin her happiness. Bloody parents - in their ignorance and greed, they're set to destroy that girl's happy obscure future! Oh, the way things are going, I can forsee how miserable she will be, with all that money and fame, which have ruined so many lifes. Hail, happy mediocrity! Good life is awaiting! :p
(No, I'm not putting in anybody's mouth all those words, just fooling around - so don't shoot! :D )

Take a pianist who studies 12 hours every single day (including Christmas, Sundays, etc.) What kind of life (s)he would have? Communication skills? Sex life? But a great pianist (s)he would be non the less ;)
Is it worth it though?
I don't know. Nobody (and everybody ;) ) can say what would be or would not be worth.
Yet, who said happiness should mean the same thing for everyone? So the "quality of life" does have some universal units? Communication? Sex? That's ordinary. Some people are extraordinary, there's nothing you can do about it (and perhaps there's nothing they can do about it)

Probably that's why, now and then, one way or another, one "wonder kid" would emerge and stay out, to everybody's amazement, unstopable, against all odds and "against all omens of their ill succes." ;)

[nickysnd]

let's say you've got an eleven year old child who can drive a car better than most other people. Should we give that child a driver's licence and let them drive around whenever they like? Maybe some people would say that we should, but I think that would be irresponsible to put a child into a driver's seat where they might have to make a life or death decision.
She doesn't drive, she just sings - that ain't kill anybody, eh?

And the responsibility of whatever bad thing might happen to her is on their parents' shoulders, isnt it? They are the "drivers", right? So let's grant them this responsibility, and just sit back and enjoy the show - irresponsibly! ;)

What they have allowed this child to do is a gamble on her future that puts her in potentially more danger than other eleven year olds.
Gamble - true. Potential danger - true. So, they'd better play safe and avoid the dangers of celebrity. Let her enjoy the life of an ordinary eleven years old! Let her live like she is ordinary, right?

Those parents, they must be blinded by money and fame to through away their child to the media lions... :eek:

[Counterpoint]

She doesn't drive, she just sings - that ain't kill anybody, eh?

Well, not literally, but I'm sure you understood the connection I was trying to make.

And the responsibility of whatever bad thing might happen to her is on their parents' shoulders, isnt it? They are the "drivers", right? So let's grant them this responsibility, and just sit back and enjoy the show - irresponsibly! ;)

By all means! I can only say that I would be more cautious if she were my child. Or maybe she's like Gary Coleman and just looks like young for her age...

Gamble - true. Potential danger - true. So, they'd better play safe and avoid the dangers of celebrity. Let her enjoy the life of an ordinary eleven years old! Let her live like she is ordinary, right?

Well... too late. Now the whole world knows that she's not ordinary.

Those parents, they must be blinded by money and fame to through away their child to the media lions... :eek:

Maybe they are, maybe they're not. They are the only ones who really know what they're doing. I just hope they can live with themselves when all is said and done, either way. :)

Hmm... you should do some reading on Natalie Portman (another far-from-ordinary person). She's written some articles about what it was like to be made into a celebrity at a young age and some of the dangers/challenges she faced. You might find it an interesting read... her website is a good starting place. :)

Cheers,

- Matt