PDA

View Full Version : Celebration


Oneilio
05-31-2005, 02:51 PM
Here is a happy/uplifting piece i did in a couple hours today that i'm entering in the demo contest. It was done entirely with ewql Gold. It's titled Celebration

http://www.cmilldesign.com/billy/oneilio/Celebration.mp3

let me know what ya think, some feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Andrew Sigler
05-31-2005, 04:13 PM
Frankly, there's a lot of crap being submitted for this contest, as is true for any contest. Your piece, happily, is not crap. It's one of the few that after I listened to it, I was disappointed that it was over, instead of relieved! It's got a real updated Copland vibe to it. Really really nice. I've listened to it about 6 times now. Wonderful syncopation...I keep waiting for the "Magnificent Seven" theme to show up! Are you familiar with Michael Torke? It sounds like it could be one of his "Color Music" pieces.

IMHO, it really ought to return to the beginning material before it's all said and done...

Keep it up!

Brian Wardell
05-31-2005, 04:59 PM
Yeah, I really enjoyed it (00:36 and on was very nice). It was pretty short, which does leave you wanting some more.

josejherring
05-31-2005, 05:29 PM
Very nice. More please.

It'd be cool if when doing this contest we consider that its not a demo or a film cue.

I'd like to hear how you develop the two main themes into one movement or tone poem.

That's what it's going to take to get my vote. :)

Cheers,

Jose

Anytempo
05-31-2005, 07:17 PM
Here is a happy/uplifting piece i did in a couple hours today .

Wow - you really did this in just a couple of hours?

It's Great! - So much expressed in 1 minute. Really enjoyed the theme in the second half. Thanks for sharing.

Oneilio
05-31-2005, 09:11 PM
yea, it really only took a couple hours. Thanks for all the comments guys.

neoTypic
06-01-2005, 03:18 AM
Very impressive for only a few hours! Would have taken me at least that just to synth it. :D

Anytempo
06-01-2005, 06:33 AM
Oneilio,

If you don't mind me asking, did you have the piece "composed" prior to sequencing? Or do you just sit down at the computer - 2-3 hours later you have this piece? That amazes me because it takes me 15-30 minutes just to fire up my systems and prepare the articulations for a piece. You must have a great method worked out, with templates and all.

Nice Job.

Oneilio
06-01-2005, 10:38 AM
no i do not have it composed before everything. I use fruity loops for my sequencer, so maybe that's why it takes alot less time. Fruity loops is way easier to use than most other programs.

Anytempo
06-01-2005, 12:03 PM
Thanks and good luck in the contest!

Heezzi
06-01-2005, 01:00 PM
Hey, I remeber you from FP.


Good Job.

PaulJGreblick
06-01-2005, 01:45 PM
Can you explain a little bit how exactly you use Fruity Loops to sequence this sort of thing? I used to use it to pump out drum and bass tracks for my rock guitar work and I'm not seeing exactly how you would do this...but then that was on V3.
Do you write it "dot per dot" so to speak?

josejherring
06-01-2005, 02:12 PM
Bringing up google. Typing in Fruityloops. Get cereal ads. Type Fruityloops music software. Get new sequencer. Checking it out.

Really great job coming from a sequencer that I thought was only for Dance Loops. 2to3 hours is remarkable.

I'm doing some serious research on it now.

Cheers,

Jose

PaulJGreblick
06-01-2005, 02:44 PM
Well, I did have it, as I mentioned, but I can't see how this type of complexity and expressiveness would be achieved. I am a Sonar user now for about 2 months, but mostly just curious as to how FL would do this.

Thanks.

matthew82475
06-01-2005, 02:50 PM
Oneilio,

I'm not going to accuse you of plagarism, but you're running dangerously close. Your horn melody after about :35 is almost exactly (literally, note for note) the "We Go On" theme Gavin Greenaway wrote for EPCOT's Illuminations show. I think the moderator's are going to have to think long and hard before allowing this entry into the competition. I'm sorry Oneillio, but this is just way too close. Even the orchestration is nearly identical!

No offense, but every composer needs to be considerate of the works of other writers.

Oneilio
06-01-2005, 03:29 PM
oh crap, i forgot to give credit to him for that theme.
I thought we were allowed to do remakes though for the contest?

The story is, our marching band this year (that's right, i'm a junior in Highschool) is basing the show off of Greenaway's piece, and my band director told me to write something that had snippets of stuff in it that we could practice in class and stuff. You are right about the theme at the end, but the stuff prior to that is totally original. I'm an idiot for forgetting to credit him. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

As for the fruity loops questions, fruity loops is not just a trance/techno tool, you can use it for all genres, because it supports vsti support.

ToddK
06-01-2005, 04:06 PM
Very nice!! Loved it! Especially from about 30 seconds, on.

The title is perfect... :) Great orchestration skills flying all over the place.

This piece really kicks butt.. :cool:

Great stuff!
TK

matthew82475
06-01-2005, 04:08 PM
Oneilio,

I can't even begin to describe how relieved I am to hear you say that. I was really worried that you might try and take credit for the melody. As far as the competition is concerned, you'll need to check with them regarding music by other composers. From a copyright perspective, it's okay to quote a theme in a new, original piece of music providing you give credit to the original composer. Without consulting a lawyrer, I'm not sure if Sounds Online would have to receive a copyright release if they decided to host your piece on their website (providing, of course, that you won). Disney is well known for being extremely protective of its intellectual copyrights.

If I may make a suggestion, in the future, if you're going to use another composer's theme, even one that is in the public domain, don't copy it so exactly. Use the theme in a new way. It not only helps to protect you from copyright issues, but also might spur your imagination on to new ideas of your own.

Best Wisehs,

Matt

P.S. For all those who got excitied about that theme and are interested in the original piece, Illuminations: Reflections of Earth is available on Disney Records. Or just come down to Orlando and visit EPCOT! It's a great show!

Anytempo
06-01-2005, 04:37 PM
P.S. For all those who got excitied about that theme and are interested in the original piece, Illuminations: Reflections of Earth is available on Disney Records. Or just come down to Orlando and visit EPCOT! It's a great show!

Thanks. Will check it out.

Evan
06-01-2005, 08:43 PM
you forgot eh :rolleyes:

drew
06-01-2005, 09:59 PM
Oneilio,

From a copyright perspective, it's okay to quote a theme in a new, original piece of music providing you give credit to the original composer.

Hold on a minute! Unless you are a lawyer and an expert in copyright law, I wouldn't be giving out advise like this. I'm no expert, but have a bit of experience with this and it is never "okay to quote a theme as long as you give credit to the original composer"(unless in the public domain). This is precisely what the law is meant to protect against.

Oneilio should remove this work from public access immediately. I did like it, but no matter.

Oneilio
06-01-2005, 10:03 PM
think about the millions of remixes of songs that are up on the internet. Nobody is gonna care about it if you give credit where it is due, unless you're making money off of it.

PaulJGreblick
06-01-2005, 10:05 PM
Sometiems a bit of realism helps to quell the agitation of those who stick to principle too thoroughly. There's really not a "public consumption" threat of this, as much as I love (and hate sometimes) pointing out the obvious.

I could write my own arrangement of KISS "Rock and Roll All Night" and put it on my web site and unless I'm specifically using it to lure in marketing dolalrs that KISS is NOT getting, no law or even ethic has been broken.

After all, KISS has over 23 "tribute" albums, and yes, when marketed to the puiblic, they do get a share of the writers royalties.

And everyone that Wierd Al Yankovic makes fun of gets pissed off...until they're first royalty check.

The double point, though, to get back to it, is wholly in claiming it as your own, etc, etc, etc, and also what you're using it for.

Those two things do require common sense. And it's also why QUEEN made it really big and Vanilla Ice, while winning the sampling law suit for his sample of the "Under Pressure" bass line in his only hit "Ice, Ice, Baby" didn't stick around for even an encore.

'nuff said. Time for some ice cream. Vanilla Ice...cream.

matthew82475
06-02-2005, 06:04 AM
Drew,

In order to graduate from college, we were required to participate in copyright training, and although I appreciate your concern for Oneilio, copyright law is not quite so black and white. My advice was only meant to help alleviate the confusion issue. In terms of court rulings, copyright concerns are mainly an issue of whether or not consuion occurs. In other words, is it clear who wrote the music. Paul and Oneilio are also correct in regard to the money issue. That's the other issue that courts are concerned with.

To use an example, it would be difficult to win a lawsuit (in this case Disney) if Oneilio gave credit to the original writer (Gavin Greenaway) and did not making any money off of his composition. Whether or not, techinically speaking, he needed copyright permission to use the theme, is a different issue entirely. There is a difference in between the letter of the law and what is prosecutable. That is why I made the comment that Sounds-Online (who do make money, so to speak, off their demos) would need to consult with a lawyer to make sure they don't need a copyright release. And as far as the prize is concerned for Oneilio, it's hard to say whether or not that would be considered a form of profit.

There are many good books available on copyright and the music business.

Matt

drew
06-02-2005, 07:43 AM
Matt,

I think we both agree this is an extremely complex and confusing issue. As you stated, nobody really cares until money is involved. However, there is an ethical question here as to knowingly borrowing thematic material not in the PD and submitting it as original in a contest that does offer a prize worth a fair amount of money.

I'm not trying to beat up on oneilio, youthful indiscretion I'm sure, but we do need to be careful not to infringe on the rights of others.

Brian Wardell
06-02-2005, 07:52 AM
Matthew,

Have they been using that piece of music at EPCOT for a long time? I thought something sounded familiar about it when I heard it, but I haven't been to EPCOT since about 1990 so it's been a while and I didn't put them together if it's been in use since then. If not I guess I must have heard it elsewhere. Nice little piece though, I still like it.

awpmusic
06-02-2005, 08:02 AM
think about the millions of remixes of songs that are up on the internet. Nobody is gonna care about it if you give credit where it is due, unless you're making money off of it.

YES, they are.

Anytempo
06-02-2005, 08:20 AM
Oneilio- you said, you are a junior in H.S., that would put you at 15-17 years old? I'm really impressed with your skills. Great Job. Just remember to fully disclose everything before you post, especially if you're seeking comments on the piece.

drew
06-02-2005, 08:21 AM
YES, they are.


Exactly! Just because it is happening all over the internet does not make it right. I will never understand how someone can think that is ok. It is a dangerous attitude to take and threatens those who are struggling to make a living writing and publishing music.

Brian Wardell
06-02-2005, 08:25 AM
I believe he said he was a Junior in High School, so he'd be a bit older than 12-14. What is that now, 17-18? I made the same mistake when I first glanced over the thread, though.

Anytempo
06-02-2005, 09:04 AM
I believe he said he was a Junior in High School, so he'd be a bit older than 12-14. What is that now, 17-18? I made the same mistake when I first glanced over the thread, though.

I edited the post. Thanks.

matthew82475
06-02-2005, 09:44 AM
Brian,

The Illuminations: Reflections of Earth album I have was published in 1999. Now, the music may have been out earlier, but I'm not sure. I moved to the Orlando area 4 years ago. I have another album I picked up at Disneyland, back when I lived in California, which has the music from the show that preceeded Reflections of Earth, called Illuminations: Nighttime Spectacular. That album was published in 1997, but again, there's no way to be certain when the music was being used.

The Reflections of Earth show, I am told, began as a millenium celebration and Disney has simply never changed the show since. It consists of a parade and then a fireworks show. The present program has a slightly modified version of the Tapestry of Nations parade music but the fireworks music remains unchanged. Thematically, the show doesn't make much sense any more, but the music is still good.


Drew,

"As you stated, nobody really cares until money is involved." - As Dr. Teeth would say, "Too true!"

"There is an ethical question here as to knowingly borrowing thematic material not in the PD and submitting it as original in a contest that does offer a prize worth a fair amount of money." - I agree, which is why I brought it up in the first place. I'm pleased with Oneilio's admission. I feel he owned up to it responsibly. As far as whether or not it is still considered for the contest, I'll let the powers that be make that determination.

Matt

PaulJGreblick
06-02-2005, 02:46 PM
Funny, though, to talk about "borrowing" and "ethics"...

The "founding fathers" of America (where I live) apparently didn't give a hoot about ethics or "borrowing" either - they flat out STOLE the land that we live on from the Native Americans, put them in Concentration Camps...I mean "Reservations"...and made up a big term called "Manifest Destiny" to be able to sleep at night.

So, without certainly promoting "stealing" or even trying to find a reason for taking without giving back or making anyone think it's "ethically" okay, whatever that means...the point is pretty much ethics are "pretty much" how you define them. Look how women are treated in some other cultures and that the men think they "deserve" that treatment.

This was NOT meant to ruffle feathers only that to show that those who are greedy and want to "win" by whatever means possible will either do it illegally, or, um, do it illegaly and then make it somehow "legal" or of "outstanding cultural necessity" or some big phrase like that.

The truth about my own opinion is that we should all drop naturally big phrases and use those silicon ones, instead. They only cause real problems for women in 5% of the cases, anyway, but it's okay, because the other 95% will pay for our on-staff attorneys when the lawsuits start coming in from women with self-esteem issues.

The whole world would have been different if the Native Americans had on-staff attorneys. Instead the just listed to the Great Spirit.

Who is telling me right now to stop my belly-aching and go drink some grape juice because my belly is aching.

See how "ethical" issues like these got this thread from a "hey, good job on your comosition" to "Why didn't the Founding Fathers bring us Grape Juice?"

I saw we all go Buddhist and drop all "shoulds" and just do what is helpful to yourself and others.

But I'm not sharing my grape juice. And I don't have an on-staff attorney. So I may have to run to Mexico to avoid the authorities.. I have a Spanish-looking classical guitar, so I think I'll be okay.

The point overall, I think, is that maybe if we (in general) "loosen up" on the intricate meaning and implications of things, the right thing to do in whatever situation will become obvious. Like now I keep an extra three bottles of the pre-wine drink on hand just in case of real emergencies.

But specifics about legal issues don't just involve money. It involves ego a lot of the time. A friend of mind ownes the domain "spiritinside.net" which she's been running for years. The local newspaper did a story on her and the next day Intel's "on-staff" lawyers filed an injunction because it sounded too much like "Intel Inside". Whatever. (And no, my friend does NOT have an on-staff attorney.)

Another one (and sorry to make this so long) is an aquantance of mine's roommate bought the domain name "bathandbodyworks.net" a couple of years ago when apparently "Bath and Body Works" didn't know that along with buying the ".com" it's a good idea to buy every other iteration of the domain name, like ".net, .org" etc. She bought the ".net". Never used it. Never had a need. An "on-staff" attorney filed a lawsuit when she refused to sell it at their offer NOT FOR THE THOUSANDS TAHT PRE-BOUGHT COMPANY DOMAINS WERE GOING FOR which she probably should have gotten, and was "required' to give it up and only be reimbursed the fees that she paid for it.

This is totally me, and not justifying any questionable behavior, but study creative "recovery" and you'll soon learn that the term "intellectual property" is an absolute joke because the "Source" of the creative thing or discovery or whatever, may not be the person that it comes "through", but something a lot more either "inner" or way beyond the physical, depending upon how you look at it.

Enough. Now I need some graham crackers, too. And I don't have any graham crackers.

That's all.

The goal was both insight and to lighten things up. ' Hope it was accomplished.

- Paul

Oneilio
06-02-2005, 03:14 PM
i'm 17 years old.

and it doesn't matter, because i won't win the contest anyways lol

PaulJGreblick
06-02-2005, 04:32 PM
Yeah, but see what you started?

:D