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fbeauvaisc
08-20-2017, 01:50 PM
Hi,

I've been looking everywhere but it seems that it's still not possible to build your own keyswitch patches. How come? It seems it would be so easy to implement and immensely benefit us users.

A lot of us that are using Cubase and expression maps. I'd be able to load my favorite articulations on one single track. The existing keyswitches are never exactly what we need. As of now, asides from a few well designed keyswitch patches, they mostly feel as if they where meant for live application but Cubase's expression maps as proven that it's in fact very useful. As long as we can build our own.

I love the way spitfire audio as it where one patch contains the possibility of all articulations and you load the ones you need. You have great libraries but let's face it, the engine is getting old. I can think of at least 5 very simple things that would make a huge difference but I'll post another thread for that.

By the way I own pretty much all of EWQL libraries having bought a composer pro bundle twice. You would think that having that many articulations, you would get an engine that handles them better.

George Bellas
10-02-2017, 05:22 PM
I love the way PLAY handles articulations and think it does so quite well.

I use one track per instrument with many of my templates mirroring a conductor's score. I use MIDI channels on a per note basis to trigger articulations and in my opinion is much more elegant than keyswitches, which I think add significant and unneccesary clutter to a score and other MIDI editors.

Selecting articulations via Keyswitches and even unique MIDI channels both seem archaic in this day and age. What would be ideal is a universal ARTICULATION ID system to allow us unlimited articulations on each track and forgo the use of Keyswitch clutter and also break the 16 MIDI channels barrier.

Having said that, any optimizations in the PLAY engine would of course be quite welcome.

fbeauvaisc
10-02-2017, 06:51 PM
Selecting articulations via Keyswitches and even unique MIDI channels both seem archaic in this day and age. What would be ideal is a universal ARTICULATION ID system to allow us unlimited articulations on each track and forgo the use of Keyswitch clutter and also break the 16 MIDI channels barrier.


You probably don't use Cubase and expression maps. Expression maps lets you select keyswitches very easily. I love being able to have only one track for my Gypsy Violon or the Erhu that have close to 20 articulations each and some of them even more. With Expression maps, I can write the melodies and then very effecively select each articulations for each notes or group of notes. All of that expressiveness can be done on one single track. The main issue is that we cannot make our own keyswitch patches witch would push the concept even further and save us Cubase users a bunch of time and space.

I love how Spitfire Audio handles articulations where all of them can be loaded on a single KS patch and we chose witch ones we want to load into ram. Maybe EWQL should release a full "All Articulations KS patch" for each instruments sections and sections. They would have to open unloaded so we could activate each one individually in the player page and load only the ones we want into ram. That would be a the ideal way to do it.

One track per articulation is what sounds archaic to me. I almost never use ensemble patches and have a track for all instruments so that sometimes means 5 tracks (V1-V2-Violas-Cello-Bass) per articulation just for strings. That can mean 30 to 60 tracks again just for strings. Not very convenient if you ask me. Keyswitches and expression maps are very well handled in Cubase. Other DAWs might not take full advantage of them.

So I still think we could benefit a lot from the ability to build our own Custom KS patches of at least give us an unloaded "ALL Articulations KS pachs" per instruments sort of like the Gypsy Violin or the Silk Erhu.

Cheers,

George Bellas
10-02-2017, 07:52 PM
One track per articulation is what sounds archaic to me. I almost never use ensemble patches and have a track for all instruments so that sometimes means 5 tracks (V1-V2-Violas-Cello-Bass) per articulation just for strings. That can mean 30 to 60 tracks again just for strings. Not very convenient if you ask me.



I agree 100%. I'm not sure if you misunderstood what I said, but just to clarify, I also work using one track per instrument (not one track per articulation). I use Logic Pro X and use unique MIDI channel assignments to select articulations (along with keyswitches unfortunately when necessary).

While Cubase's implementation of expression maps sounds quite elegant, it sounds as though it still relies on keyswitches. What I was proposing is to have a universal ARTICULATION ID system for selecting articulations that all DAW's could utilize.

fbeauvaisc
10-03-2017, 05:16 AM
I use Logic Pro X and use unique MIDI channel assignments to select articulations (along with keyswitches unfortunately when necessary).(...)What I was proposing is to have a universal ARTICULATION ID system for selecting articulations that all DAW's could utilize.

It sounds good. I did misunderstand. Unfortunatly I still don't understand exacty how is can be done. Is it a Logic Pro X only feature? How exactly are you doing this with the MIDI channels? I know how to assign channels to articulations in Play but to have a track switch channels on the DAW's timeline was not something I had though about.

Thanks,

George Bellas
10-03-2017, 06:52 AM
How exactly are you doing this with the MIDI channels? I know how to assign channels to articulations in Play but to have a track switch channels on the DAW's timeline was not something I had though about.,

Assigning MIDI channels to individual notes to switch articulations is NOT a Logic Pro only feature, it can be done in Cubase too.

In Logic - I simply select a single note or a group of notes in the score and then change the MIDI channel in the properties box to the MIDI channel of the desired articulation.

In Cubase - I believe this is accomplished in the Note Properties window (within the score or other editor), but the procedure is essentially the same – select a note(s) and then set their MIDI channel in the Note Properties window to the desired MIDI channel of the articulation loaded in the PLAY multitimbral instance.

NOTE: I don't use Cubase so the Note Properties window I am referring to might be called something else.

Jay Asher
10-03-2017, 07:11 AM
Use Peter Schwartz's SkiSwitcher 3 or ARTz ID with Logic Pro X and it is all a breeze.

http://www.skiswitcher.com

George Bellas
10-03-2017, 03:11 PM
Use Peter Schwartz's SkiSwitcher 3 or ARTz ID with Logic Pro X and it is all a breeze.
http://www.skiswitcher.com

Thanks for the recommendation, Jay. Loading up 16 articulations in PLAY and selecting them via MIDI channels is quite a breeze to begin with, but the ability to bust through the 16 channel barrier with Peter's ARTz ID is quite enticing!

The original poster uses Cubase so neither of those would be solutions for him.

George Bellas
10-03-2017, 03:16 PM
François,

In Cubase, set the expression maps to change MIDI channels when working with PLAY, and then load up 16 articulations in PLAY making sure that each articulation is assigned to a unique MIDI channel. Doing so will enable you to have one track per instrument with 16 articulations available for that particular instrument.

fbeauvaisc
10-04-2017, 05:24 AM
Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a shot soon. I'm currently working on a heavy metal / electronic fusion for a fast pace video game. I'll let you know as soon as I score some orchestral stuff but if I can use the expression maps this way, it's very promissing because I'd be able to re-name the midi individual channels to the articulations in the Exp Maps and then chose the right articulations in the cc lane instead of midi channels that I would have to rememeber what they are linked to from patches to patches. Thanks, I'll try it as soon as I get some strings going.

fbeauvaisc
10-12-2017, 06:09 PM
Ok so I finally got to work on a orchestral piece. I can't thank you enough. It's so easy I wonder why I never bothered to look to midi channels for articulation switching. I can finally choose up to 16 precise articulations on a single track. In a few days, I'll wonder how I ever got to work and do it without. Thanks again! Simply an awesome improvement to my workflow!

PaulieDC
11-07-2017, 03:52 PM
This topic is probably one of the more daunting ones for new-to-orchestration folks... do you guys know of any resource (vid or print) that demystifies keyswitching and when and how and why do it and when not to and do some do it completely differently, etc?

fbeauvaisc
11-08-2017, 05:19 AM
This topic is probably one of the more daunting ones for new-to-orchestration folks... do you guys know of any resource (vid or print) that demystifies keyswitching and when and how and why do it and when not to and do some do it completely differently, etc?

I dont know about documents but you can surely find videos on the subject on YouTube. Personally, I've done what was suggested in the thread and went the multi midi channel way. That way you can mix different libraries on a single patch. For instance, I've joined all my tambourines from Symphonic Orchestra, Hollywood Percussions, Gypsy and Stormdrum 3 on a single multi-timbal patch and I then switch between them with midi channels. I've done the same with bass drums, snares, wooden tuned precs, metal tuned percs etc... This thread originally requested a way to build custom keyswitches. Well that solution is even better. I even built expression maps with Cubase so I can still switch channels with keys so it's basically, midi channel keyswitching. Still having a few things to iron out but it's getting pretty solid.

PaulieDC
11-08-2017, 04:07 PM
...For instance, I've joined all my tambourines from Symphonic Orchestra, Hollywood Percussions, Gypsy and Stormdrum 3 on a single multi-timbal patch and I then switch between them with midi channels...

Oh! That I get! That's exactly what I was lost on, what EXACTLY is someone doing when they say they're combining, etc etc. That "for instance" line is worth its weight in gold, THANK you.

Honestly, me and every other noob just needs to set aside time somehow and work with our world, learning Play and Kontakt and our controller and it's interface, etc. But tips like yours are a great kick in the right direction. :headphones:

fbeauvaisc
11-09-2017, 05:35 AM
Use Peter Schwartz's SkiSwitcher 3 or ARTz ID with Logic Pro X and it is all a breeze.

http://www.skiswitcher.com

I'm having a problem with Cubase and multi-timbral patches, when I trigger a patch with a note or program change, whenever I play/stop or move the cursor, the midi channel resets. That does not happen with keyswitch patches. Could custom built patches using SkiSwitcher fix this?

It's a chasing issue. Cubase's expression map is kind of like a built in SkiSwitcher but I'm having problems with the articulations resetting when I use midi channels.

Do Skiswitcher have advanced chasing features?

tommyrack13
11-09-2017, 07:00 AM
Hi François - how are your Expression Maps set up? It could be something to do with the different Articulation Types (Attribute or Direction). You'll find this in the bottom right hand corner of the Expression Maps Setup page. If you try changing the Articulation Type, does the behaviour still continue?

T

fbeauvaisc
11-09-2017, 08:11 AM
Hi François - how are your Expression Maps set up? It could be something to do with the different Articulation Types (Attribute or Direction). You'll find this in the bottom right hand corner of the Expression Maps Setup page. If you try changing the Articulation Type, does the behaviour still continue?

T

The actual expression maps are working fine once assigned an articulation in the key editor's expression lanes. My issue is when I want to record while playing.

Sometimes I just want to play around on the keyboard to see what could work. I have assigned, in the expression maps, keys to trigger different articulation but they don't stay selected. Whenever I press stop or move the cursor position, it resets the articulation to the top one. I always have to re-trigger the articulation until it's actually recorded and assigned in the key editor's expression lane.