PDA

View Full Version : Project SAM vs. EWQL brass


Oneilio
06-06-2005, 08:56 AM
In my experience, it has seemed like the ewql brass sounds havn't been the best in terms of realism. Has anyone tried the brass by Project SAM? The demos sounds alot more realistic and versatile than then ewql brass sounds, and it's alot cheaper too. Just wondering what you guys think. I know this is an ewql board so there's a little bias here.

neoTypic
06-06-2005, 09:21 AM
Another great tool. ;)

You can argue the strengths and weaknesses of each until the cow comes home, but they're both great tools.

An artist doesn't just use one brush.

Nick Phoenix
06-06-2005, 10:03 AM
Sam brass is a little more versatile, but EWQLSO sounds better. Those who have both, load up the staccato french horns of both and compare. EWQLSO PRO will be the ultimate brass library.

Stefan Podell
06-06-2005, 10:22 AM
EWQLSO PRO will be the ultimate brass library.

:p :drool: :p

neoTypic
06-06-2005, 10:27 AM
Sam brass is a little more versatile, but EWQLSO sounds better. Those who have both, load up the staccato french horns of both and compare. EWQLSO PRO will be the ultimate brass library.

Sure I'll take one! ;) *laughs*

ntm
06-06-2005, 10:42 AM
Sam brass is a little more versatile, but EWQLSO sounds better. Those who have both, load up the staccato french horns of both and compare. EWQLSO PRO will be the ultimate brass library.

Nick can you explain? I have Gold, but not Sam brass. Based on the demos I've heard Sam brass has a thicker, bigger sound, especially with staccato. I have Gold Pro preordered for months now, and am wondering what Pro will be adding to make the brass even better? Thanks!

Nick Phoenix
06-06-2005, 09:56 PM
Nick can you explain? I have Gold, but not Sam brass. Based on the demos I've heard Sam brass has a thicker, bigger sound, especially with staccato. I have Gold Pro preordered for months now, and am wondering what Pro will be adding to make the brass even better? Thanks!

Platinum has surround mics which are more similar to the SAM sound. If you want a darker, bigger sound then Platinum is for you. Mixing the stage witht the surrounds is awesome. EWQLSO PRO has the best most dynamic, warm and extensive trumpets ever sampled. All new stuff, 2 Bb trumpets and solo Bb trumpet. The additional 6 french horn stuff fills in all the gaps, adds double tonging, effects, awesome legato crossfading programs, marcato etc.. and the performances are better than last time. There is some nice solo stuff too that makes the original stuff more complete and useable. The new trombone section is also better performed than the first time because I did more takes and all of the brass has mutes!! The problem with the existing EWQLSO brass is that there aren't quite enough articulations and people tend to use too much of the bright layers. We've addressed that in PRO big time, but alot can be done with the existing library.

Nayi
06-06-2005, 10:11 PM
Since you have already pre-ordered Gold PRO I would wait and see.
After that if you still hunger for more brass, Project Sam is definately a good choice. You can buy group of instruments separately: sam horns, sam trombones, sam trumpets etc.

But Platinuum is where EWQLSO Brass shines the best.

neoTypic
06-06-2005, 11:43 PM
And I take it there will be an upgrade path from Gold Pro to Platinum Pro?

I might be tempted to buy Gold Pro, but there is simply no way I can spend about 3k right now.

Thanks!

JanElster
06-07-2005, 12:48 AM
In addition to what is already sad (as I'm a user of all SAM libraries AND Gold):
- SAM Horns e. g. have no release trails and no crossfade Instruments and no different staccaro samples (= machineguneffect). The Horns are definetly the weakest part of the SAMs, but still OK.


BUT

the sound of the trombones is quite fat and warm and very powerful in same articulations and you have an extra basstrombone. also the trumpets can cope with a lot of instrumentations and fulfill a great job.

How to decide?

MIX IT! The SAM libraries are quite cheap compared to their quality. I use them a lot in combination with EWQLSO Brass instruments which results in a very massive and powerful "Zimmer"-like brass-sound. Cause of the two mic positions SAM is recorded the "far" instruments mix quite well with the EWQLSO. I would give them a try, if it's in the budget. SAM gives some "breath" to the sometimes a little weak Gold-Brass. But as nick said, PRO will be the definite brass collection. So wait for it if you can afford it.

Jan

ntm
06-07-2005, 01:59 AM
Thanks for the information everyone, especially Nick.

QLSO Platinum does sound exciting and the Group Buy was so tempting. I opted for Gold Pro, Colossus and RA bundle for now though. Too many good EW products, too little time. :)

Bernard Asselin
06-07-2005, 11:28 AM
The new trombone section is also better performed than the first time because I did more takes and all of the brass has mutes!! The problem with the existing EWQLSO brass is that there aren't quite enough articulations and people tend to use too much of the bright layers. We've addressed that in PRO big time, but alot can be done with the existing library.

Nick,

Did you mean that the Pro edition should have more velocity layers than the first edition, or it's only by additional articulations that you hope to improve the playability?

Bernard

Nayi
06-07-2005, 01:17 PM
In addition to what is already sad (as I'm a user of all SAM libraries AND Gold):
- SAM Horns e. g. have no release trails and no crossfade Instruments and no different staccaro samples (= machineguneffect). The Horns are definetly the weakest part of the SAMs, but still OK.

Jan

This is not true. SAM Horns has release samples (ex: SAM H REL - Sustain (f)), crossfade instruments (ex: SAM H MW - Sutain (f)) and no machine gun effect whatsoever.
If load the staccatos patch and hit it repeatly the sound is alternate. This is also explained in the Tutorial voice-over Sam horns demo in project sam page.

BMoody326
06-08-2005, 12:19 AM
I say get both if u can..they both are great tools for composing..They have a different sound. I personally prefer the SAM sound for brass....but East West makes a great product to..

josejherring
06-08-2005, 01:16 AM
Sam brass is a little more versatile, but EWQLSO sounds better. Those who have both, load up the staccato french horns of both and compare. EWQLSO PRO will be the ultimate brass library.

Nick I have to know. I PM Doug and got no answer. Are the original trumpets in EWQLSO Trumpets in C? If so, your upcoming pro versions has Bflat right? Or is it just two bflats in unison.

Jose

Nick Phoenix
06-08-2005, 09:03 AM
The original 4 trumpets were in Bb, but it really depends on the guys, their style and mouth pieces. Also, 4 trumpets are only good for certain things. This time we got the best classical/hollywood guys to do the 2 Bb trumpets and the solo Bb. I still love the solo trumpet from the first EWQLSO, but the new stuff is very very good, with tons of articulations, multiple takes etc... Also we now have piccolo trumpet. It's trumpet mania.

dcoscina
06-08-2005, 09:57 AM
Having both SAM Solo Sessions/Horns as well as EWQLSO Silver and Gold, and also being a trombone player, let me voice my perspective on this matter:

SAM brass to me are truly excellent sounding. There are a couple of staccato horn patches that I don't have in Gold that I use. I think the Solo Sessions also have a beautiful solo French horn.

HOWEVER

I honestly rarely use Project SAM stuff nowadays because of Gold. I like having everything under one roof (as the saying goes) rather than loading this sample and that sample in Kontakt 2 or Gigastudio or whatever. Also, I prefer the Solo Tuba Stacc in Gold to the Solo Sessions. When you play it fff you get a nice brass rattle and a deep resonant sound. Also, the Kompakt player that Gold comes with is a much faster more efficient way of loading sounds and using them when one is trying to get their music ideas out. Gigastudio 3 still has its issues on my system and the LAST thing I want to do is run down problems when I just want to compose.

Conclusion: SAM might aesthetically have the best brass on the block but EWQLSO brass are much better all around for their sound/playability/ease of use. That's my take on the matter.

nexus
06-08-2005, 07:25 PM
Having both SAM Solo Sessions/Horns as well as EWQLSO Silver and Gold, and also being a trombone player, let me voice my perspective on this matter:

SAM brass to me are truly excellent sounding. There are a couple of staccato horn patches that I don't have in Gold that I use. I think the Solo Sessions also have a beautiful solo French horn.

HOWEVER

I honestly rarely use Project SAM stuff nowadays because of Gold. I like having everything under one roof (as the saying goes) rather than loading this sample and that sample in Kontakt 2 or Gigastudio or whatever. Also, I prefer the Solo Tuba Stacc in Gold to the Solo Sessions. When you play it fff you get a nice brass rattle and a deep resonant sound. Also, the Kompakt player that Gold comes with is a much faster more efficient way of loading sounds and using them when one is trying to get their music ideas out. Gigastudio 3 still has its issues on my system and the LAST thing I want to do is run down problems when I just want to compose.

Conclusion: SAM might aesthetically have the best brass on the block but EWQLSO brass are much better all around for their sound/playability/ease of use. That's my take on the matter.


Yes, and I might also add that when you "have everything under one roof" you have the added benefit of homogenity of timbre. This makes it much less of a hassle to get your pieces balanced sounding.

I have the SAM brass and still use them. They sound excellent but still I prefer the EWQLSO brass for realism (though the SAM horns are so tight sounding, you can actually fudge and play chords with them! :cool: ).

Apparently, Garritan is including the SAM brass in his GPO Advanced. I find that an odd move simply because they are both completely different timbre-wise and programming-wise. Not a very good match. :rolleyes: I would think VSL would have been better.

But if one can afford BOTH, I'd say go for it!

dcoscina
06-08-2005, 10:43 PM
Yeah Nexus, VSL and SAM go together better. How did Gary manage to legally bundle SAM brass in his GPO Advanced? Mind you, it's probably a good move because the existing brass in GPO are TERRIBLE. SImply attrocious. :eek:

nexus
06-09-2005, 07:33 PM
Yeah Nexus, VSL and SAM go together better. How did Gary manage to legally bundle SAM brass in his GPO Advanced? Mind you, it's probably a good move because the existing brass in GPO are TERRIBLE. SImply attrocious. :eek:

Well apparently there was a big pow-wow of orchestral library developers after musikmesse, and SAM was there. I'm guessing Gary struck some deal for the rights.

As is par for GPO, the SAM brass will most likely use just the loud layer and mimic the softer timbres with Kontakt programming, so it probably will not be just as good as buying the complete samples from SAM.

Gary also is supposedly including samples he made of brass in the Benaroya hall including Wagner tubas(en) and tenor tuba, euphonium, flugel horn, mellophone and contrabass trombone, to name a few he mentioned to me last year. Those and bass oboe with some of the original winds in new 'ambient' versions. There will be more string articulations from the GOS set and more chromatic sampling for all instruments.

It all sounds good. I think Garritan should make this 'Advanced' version into "GPO II" and sell it for $299. The orginal library should be retired or made into the entry-level product it is now. At the GB price it would be ideal.

It's such a shame I guess, but GPO was so quickly outdated shortly after it was introduced back in 2003. It is absolutely embarrassing in some respects such as the incredibly wimpy and synthy trombones ( :rolleyes: ). I still can't believe Garritan and company let GPO out of the door with brass like that. His stated philosophy of "ensemble-building" just doesn't work with synthy brass and short loops.

If Garritan offers us GPO 'first purchasers' a GOOD deal on the upgrade, I may just buy it for those unusual brass and winds, to say nothing of the string articulations. I don't own GOS.

I'm guessing too, that the Miroslav thing from SR will be a serious threat to GPO. There has been a complete re-working of this library and more sampling has been filled in to the multi-samples as well as instruments and articulations that never saw the light of day. Apparently Miroslav Vitous was preparing a whole new version himself a couple years ago but threw in the towel after the EWQLSO appeared.

MV Philharmonik is probably why Garritan keeps adding instruments and impulses to the "Advanced"! :D

It was originally going to sell for $499. Bet it will be lower after MV comes out. :)