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View Full Version : EWQLSC Demo: german a capella Choir Study "Gib unsern Fürsten"


Waywyn
06-10-2005, 09:08 AM
Hi all,

okay i just did some study on a german composition called "Gib unsern Fürsten" by Heinrich Schütz. He was a german church music composer and lived around the 17th century.

It may sound a bit confusing sometimes but the piece is canon all over the place and the language is german, so don't get too freaked if you don't understand a word :P

I used just the EWQLSC Library and no additional reverb or EQ. It is all coming out of the word building tool and finally out of the library itself.
It may sound a bit pumpy or choppy sometimes, but please remember that these guys are singing the hard and edgy language of german :)


Just as an info, here are the lyrics:

"Gib, gib unsern Fürsten und aller Obrigkeit,
Fried, Fried und gut Regiment,
das wir unter ihnen, das wir unter ihnen,
ein geruhig und stilles Leben führen mögen,
in aller Gottseligkeit und Ehrbarkeit.
Amen."

Heinrich Schütz - Gib unsern Fürsten (http://www.cellarroom.de/media/mp3/alex_pfeffer__ewqlsc_h_schuetz_gib_unsern_fuersten .mp3)

Have fun!

@lex

Debinani
06-10-2005, 09:14 AM
Wowzers - great example of Wordbuilder at work.
Now I just need to get the thing working in Sonar. *growls*

Michael Franke
06-10-2005, 10:21 AM
Wow... that is very impressive! That is some complex stuff, what voice types did you end up using for each part?? How long did that take you?? Wow! :eek:

Debinani - Remember that in sonar right now you cannot use the letters "r, w" and the spacebar in WordBuilder. In order to use them for now you must input the ASCII codes which you accomplish by holding down ALT+# (use the keypad). I believe that "r" =114, "w"=119, and space="32". This is "supposed" to be fixed in the new version which is "supposed" to be out around the 19th.

EricRichmoind
06-10-2005, 11:07 AM
Also, it is very easy to build the phrases in stand-alone, and then open those files inside the sequencer when they are ready.

Debinani
06-10-2005, 11:16 AM
Wow... that is very impressive! That is some complex stuff, what voice types did you end up using for each part?? How long did that take you?? Wow! :eek:

Debinani - Remember that in sonar right now you cannot use the letters "r, w" and the spacebar in WordBuilder. In order to use them for now you must input the ASCII codes which you accomplish by holding down ALT+# (use the keypad). I believe that "r" =114, "w"=119, and space="32". This is "supposed" to be fixed in the new version which is "supposed" to be out around the 19th.

Oh, that's not my problem, that's just an annoyance - my problem is I can't get any consonants in sonar.

lgrohn
06-10-2005, 11:17 AM
The piece is fine but the sound is metallic or something. Are you perhaps using a low mp3 rate?

matthew82475
06-10-2005, 11:32 AM
THANK YOU, ALEX!!!!!

I've been waiting for someone to undertake something like this. This piece shows off much of what works well and what still can use refrinement with EWQLSC. The contrapuntal nature of the piece nicely hides the struggle EWQLSC has shifitng from one vowel sound to the next. The middle homophonic section is clear example of this.

Question for you: can you increase the volume of some of the consonants? In the beginning, on the word "unsern" the "s" is so soft that it almost sound like "unern". Part of the joy of working with the German language is the fact that is so consonant heavy. It allows for wonderful, and complicated rythmic interplay. I think some of that is lost in the "muffled" (for lack of a better term) consonants.

Also, does EWQLSC have both latin "t"s as well as germanic "t"s? If any of the samples which of come out so far are any indication, I'd guess that even the germanic "t"s sound latin.

My last comment, I've been listening to as many samples of the EWQLSC as possible and have been struck by one very obvious thing. The choir they used to record was quite young. The choir is clearly not a choir of mostly mature voices. I'd guess that the average age of the choir used is probably not much more than 30-35. It sounds to me like it was probably a college or university choir. I wonder if anyone else has noticed that.

Great work. I look forward to hearing other samples you put out if have the time.

Matt

Thomas
06-10-2005, 11:42 AM
Congratulations, Alex! That's the kind of thing I was hoping to hear Symphonic Choirs do. It was the best German I ever didn't understand (but then I can't understand a word of German anyway) But you did such a great job of making it musical.

Like the others, I would be interested to know how long it took you to do this, and what methods you used. It is pretty impressive that you could do this after having the program for so short a time.

Stay cool,

Thomas :cool:

Waywyn
06-10-2005, 01:01 PM
Wow, thanks a lot for those comments. Really glad you like this stuff.

It took quite some time to do the demo. To enter the words and make up the sentences it was not really hard, but the part which took longest, was to get through the composition of Schütz, which is definitely hell to arrange (and even more hell when the notation chart is a bad paper-copy) :)

So all in all i was working on that around one week with all steps to do. Getting the words in the Tool, arranging the composition etc. and boucing the stuff to have space left for the surround mics etc.

Iwas kinda heavy because i used all ensembles (sophran, alt, tenor and bass) and worked with around 7 word builder tools. If you would see the arrangment it is quite a mess and after a while it became pretty hard to get through it.

I would definitely say that the word building tool is quite easy to use but you need some time to get into it. It is the same like learning every other tool, instrument or program. If you want to become a master in something, you definitely have to be eager (don't get me wrong, i won't place me into the position of a master, i just use it to describe the process ...)


@ matthew82475:
yes i was also unsure about how to set the volume on the consonants. i know that the germans are speaking them really hard but i was afraid it would be too loud in the end by mixing them with the surround mics etc (i used far and surround). tho we have a lot of international party going on here, i decided to turn them down a little.


all in all i have to say that this demo or study is definitely not perfect. you could still work, tweak and edit day by day, but i just see it as a photograph which was taken, when i was thinking that it is finalized and i could leave it for a while.

maybe when i have more time (currently i have really much to do) i will take this demo and try to make it perfect, but i am not sure. it is better to take the experience and use it for upcoming stuff and make these new things even more perfect.

thanks again for all your comments!

Michael Franke
06-10-2005, 01:09 PM
I don't know if this is too obvious, but regarding the consonant volume there is a button on the "voice" tab on the in the top left corner of WordBuilder. The button is to the right of the "type" info and the MIDI info. In that menu there is a slider for the consonant volume. I am not sure if this helps, but it made a big difference in the choir pronunciation. Though I still would like to be able to adjust individual consonant volume rather than globally.

Also, does anyone know if you can copy and paste within the text editor window?? It would save a lot of time if you could copy a word that you had already laid out in Votox.

Waywyn
06-10-2005, 01:17 PM
hi michael,

yes you can definitely alter the volume indivdually on the word builder tool. when you select a single letter you can alter the volume by hitting the little button behind "v" (ks and v are on the lower left side of the tool. then you can alter the volume of each letter individually.

Doug Rogers
06-10-2005, 01:17 PM
yes i was also unsure about how to set the volume on the consonants.

One new addition to WordBuilder that is not in the manual is a slider in "voice properties" to adjust the overall volume of non-pitched consonants, as they need to adjusted depending on whether you are in solo mode (approx. -30, but experiment until it sounds right) or chord mode. We are currently adding another slider for pitched consonants which should be available shortly.

You should try this, it's quick to do and the results might surprise you.

You need to download the latest version to access this at our support site -

http://www.soundsonline.com/techsupport.SymphonicChoirs.shtml

- Doug

Beach
06-10-2005, 01:35 PM
Hi @lex,
you have done a beautiful work.
This piece with your work really demonstrates what EWQLSC is able to do!!!
Congratulations for the work!!!
Best,
Roberto

neoTypic
06-11-2005, 11:11 AM
That's amazing!

There are spots it's really hard to tell it's not 'real'. Yipes!

Waywyn
06-15-2005, 11:04 AM
hey neotypic and roberto, i just wanted to thank you guys for your comments.

Vissequ
06-15-2005, 11:49 AM
That sounds spectacular Alex.
Great job.

benecs
06-15-2005, 02:47 PM
I just wonder why East West was not able to make such a demo! This one really shows, that EWQLSC is very good. Non of the demos posted officially by east west could convince me, but this one does.
Great job!

Edit: Even if I know german, and hear the mistakes, but I can hear, that it can sound very-very good.

Waywyn
06-16-2005, 10:59 AM
Thanks benecs,

I think taste on demos are very different and i think there is always something that someone likes better or not. So i am glad i could help you in this case ...