PDA

View Full Version : Modern and Experimental Demos


Doug Rogers
06-10-2005, 03:08 PM
A forum member suggested adding this section to broaden the range of demos.

Let's hear some other styles of music in this area.

- Doug

G.Jouan
06-10-2005, 03:28 PM
lgrohn, it's time to bring your pieces :D

tchoyy
06-10-2005, 03:28 PM
Is it ok for a symphonic black metal demo ?

I've got one, but I have to do drums with DFH2, I've just bought it ;)

drew
06-10-2005, 08:49 PM
Is it ok for a symphonic black metal demo ?

I've got one, but I have to do drums with DFH2, I've just bought it ;)

I think anything that doesn't sound like John Williams, isn't another boring 'epic action/adventure' theme and avoids the cliches of 19th century western music(those annoying cymbal swells, timpani rolls, tonal harmonies etc.) would work. Look forward to hearing something new - anything!

lgrohn
06-10-2005, 09:06 PM
GREAT. Wait for a second....

ToddK
06-10-2005, 09:09 PM
You just described what the Quantum Leap Orchesta is
designed to create.

Weird. I love that style. :p Thats why i bought Gold.

I cant imagine thinking of it as boring! Its what i live for!!LOL

Nothing wrong with diverse demos of course. I was just struck by your
comments.
I cant imagine being bored with that exciting style. Or Gold.
I just love it.. :D
TK

Liam
06-10-2005, 10:48 PM
You just described what the Quantum Leap Orchesta is
designed to create.

Weird. I love that style. :p Thats why i bought Gold.

I cant imagine thinking of it as boring! Its what i live for!!LOL

Nothing wrong with diverse demos of course. I was just struck by your
comments.
I cant imagine being bored with that exciting style. Or Gold.
I just love it.. :D
TK

Couldn't have said it better myself! I think action/epics can be the most challenging to write, and sometimes the most exciting. Although I also love the dark/brooding scores, and sad dramas. It's all about the emotion!

As far as people calling things like that "cliche" They are cliche for a reason. Because they work, they are powerful, they are what producers/directors and the masses love and want. I would call it "popular" not "cliche" (I feel like Dr. evil with all the "quotes") :D

Liam

Evan
06-10-2005, 11:01 PM
i posted this awhile back. Its kinda experimental,....at least for me. You can delete it if anyone feels it doesnt belong here..

http://www.evangamble.com/music/suspended_blues.mp3

enjoy? "notice the question mark :) "

Mills2k
06-10-2005, 11:04 PM
Ummm... as nice as they are, they are not the finest music you'll find. For instance, a very powerful work, Dvorak's New World Symphony, particularly the Largo movement... one of the most beautiful parts of a symphony I know.

And anyways, don't you feel a LITTLE weird always catering to what people want? ;) Not that I love a lot of modern and experimental music... but there's some REALLY good stuff. I heard a really pretty Stravinsky 12-tone piece, for instance. And then there's Ligeti's Lux Aeterna, or Messiaen's O Sacrum Convivium or numerous other pieces that AREN'T dramatic movie cues. But yes, many movie cues are cliched because they use the same tricks. What interests me is whenever something pulls off the same effect without doing it the same way. For instance, a complete turn off for me is the repetitive drum loops that people use in their action demos. It sounds good, but it's boring to me... not quite sure why.

Basically, all I'm trying to say is that while these epic cues have their places, I think that the finer music is actually not of that variety. And I hope to see some really interesting stuff in here. Heck, I don't expect to like most of it, but I expect that my curiosity will be piqued, and perhaps I'll pick up a few techniques listening to it. If there's one thing to be said about a lot of 12-tone orchestral pieces, it's that they've got some of the most interesting orchestration people could dream up...

Evan
06-10-2005, 11:40 PM
I think anything that doesn't sound like John Williams, isn't another boring 'epic action/adventure' theme and avoids the cliches of 19th century western music(those annoying cymbal swells, timpani rolls, tonal harmonies etc.) would work. Look forward to hearing something new - anything!

yeah cause you know minority report is cliche' :rolleyes:

Mills2k
06-10-2005, 11:51 PM
Evan: Cool piece :D Certainly something different... I don't know if technically it falls under the category of modern and experimental music, but hey, I'm not one to argue that! I like it though :) .

MCS
06-11-2005, 12:25 AM
Hi!

I think this is not really experimental, but it´s no JW or adventure/epic sounding piece :)
I wrote it for a short animation film. (There´s a little break in it)

www.mimesc.com/music/ente.mp3

so, what do you think?

Best,
Michael

Evan
06-11-2005, 01:04 AM
Hi!

I think this is not really experimental, but it´s no JW or adventure/epic sounding piece :)
I wrote it for a short animation film. (There´s a little break in it)

www.mimesc.com/music/ente.mp3

so, what do you think?

Best,
Michael

this is good man, but actually I could imagine JW composing this, does everyone here think that JW only composes the opening theme to indiana jones and sat wars and thats his style?

good job though..its a cute piece :p

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 05:24 AM
But yes, many movie cues are cliched because they use the same tricks. What interests me is whenever something pulls off the same effect without doing it the same way. For instance, a complete turn off for me is the repetitive drum loops that people use in their action demos. It sounds good, but it's boring to me... not quite sure why.Right. The "problem" originates from the fact that absolute music doesn't have any semantics. The best film music (Ligeti etc.) is absolute music and great because of the feelings, emotions, atmospheres they create. Great composers don't need cliches and great film music is not based on cliches. I also don't like the drum loops and I have never used them.

lovelysilence
06-11-2005, 08:13 AM
As a music composer, you might feel compelled to analyse a score or trailer piece. IMO that doesn't say anything about the score, and everything about you. JW's approach works everytime again in that it activates the emotion which is targeted by the scene. Whether it's cliché or not, seems totally irrelevant to me. Repetitive drum loops in trailers work and draw people's attention as well as reflect the rhythm and dynamism of the anticipated movie.
It's nice to see people try and find other ways to express certain emotions in motion picture scenes, as i agree the JW approach has been duplicated many many times. But i refuse to go into the cocky criticism of people who have never proven they master film scoring and level the quality of a JW filmscore. It's negative criticism and leads to useless posts.

drew
06-11-2005, 08:40 AM
We are all different and that's what makes this world so wonderful. While some can't imagine that style being boring, for others it simply is. That's not to say it isn't good music, but it is pretty much rehashing and imitating the techniques that were exhausted way back in the 19th century. If you are content to write in that genre, that's great, but this thread was started, I think, for those who want to try to say something new, find their own voice, experiment a little. Not everyone is trying to write music for film/TV, or even think about it as a business. This is a place for them.

Oneilio
06-11-2005, 09:20 AM
I used to have some trance music of mine played on the radio, does that count as experimental, or is that just way off? lol
Actually, i wrote a jazzy piece using ewql among other instruments.
I wrote an experimental horror piece called "Doom" that you can listen to at www.acidplanet.com/oneilio/songs Making a song like "Doom" really makes your mixing and sequencing skills go through the roof. you should try it.

tchoyy
06-11-2005, 09:43 AM
I used to have some trance music of mine played on the radio, does that count as experimental, or is that just way off? lol
Actually, i wrote a jazzy piece using ewql among other instruments.
I wrote an experimental horror piece called "Doom" that you can listen to at www.acidplanet.com/oneilio/songs Making a song like "Doom" really makes your mixing and sequencing skills go through the roof. you should try it.

What is the voice saying ? .... :D Nooooo, I'm joking !! :D

Seriously, I really like the ambience, good stuff, you must listen to it alone in the dark at home to get under pressure, what did you used for it ?

Oneilio
06-11-2005, 09:57 AM
i used a bunch of .wav files and edited and sequenced them. The cool thing about it is that everything, including the buzzing of the lights, to the voice, to the computer noises are all acting together in tempo....kinda creepy :eek:
I used Fruity Loops as my sequencer (btw flps pwns everything else :) )

Doug Rogers
06-11-2005, 10:19 AM
I think the whole idea of this section is to expand the range of demos beyond orchestral pieces.

- Doug

Andrew Sigler
06-11-2005, 10:30 AM
I think a thread of "experimental" music is absolutely what needs to be on this site. I do enjoy the "Epic Adventure" stuff, but they are all very similar and it can get old. The same thing would be true if this site was all experimental...variety is the spice of life, right?

We will have difficulty defining "experimental" though, but so what! Those of us who have some schooling (and some who don't) will think of experimental as Ligeti, Penderecki,Cage and Stockhausen et al...Others will think of house, trance, computer music. Still others will think perhaps of "Prog-Rock" bands like Yes or Dream Theater.

...And we'll all fight about it...

For instance, there was a post earlier that talked about (I'm COMPLETELY paraphrasing here...forgive me) "Good film music...like Ligeti...is good beacuse it is pure music and therefore retains some integrity outside the film in which it's placed." Well, while I do enjoy "pure music" (music not written for the film, play, dance) that is then incorporated into the film, play, dance, it's hard to call that the "best" film music. What makes film music difficult is not dissimilar to what makes serial music (the most commonly known variant is called "12-tone") difficult. Or Sonata form for that matter. They all put the composer in a "box" which the composer must work his/her way out of. This is the test! Young composers love the idea of "total freedom" in their work, until they realize that FORM is what gives the piece it's bones! 12-tone or 32 bar rock....Whether the form is thought out ahead of time or materialzes during the composition process is irrelevant; that it occurs AT ALL is relevant.

By the way, other than "2001" and "The Shining", I've never heard Ligeti music in film. I did a quick IMDB search which returned a dozen films in which his music is featured. However, it looked like most of those were previously written pieces that were inserted after the fact...Here's a short bio link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/profiles/ligeti.shtml

Most of the pieces on this site are cues. They tend to be short and highly stylized like the opening cues to a summer movie. Not to knock cues, or discourage anyone from writing them all day long! I write them too, and imagine spaceships exploding to my cymbal crashes. We think they would sound great in a LOTR setting or whatever, but until you've heard that music with dialogue, sound effects, and the visuals, it's all speculation! JW was interviewed on NPR recently about the Sith film and he spoke briefly on this topic. He talked about having to do rewrites specifically because of those other audio elements...

I've had similar problems writing music for theater. Until everything is put together, you won't really know if the pieces fit! It's a crapshoot! Those on this site who want to write for film should do just that! Search around until you find some film or video clip that has no music and write some for it. It's a ton of fun and better than grad school! Well, at least more fun than grad school...a bit off topic, sorry...

So let's hear what you've got people! I'll throw some stuff up here as soon as my new computer is assembled and loaded with the EWQL goodness we all know and love...

Oneilio, very creepy tune! Fantastic!
evan_gamble, nice! experimental...?


Let the weirdness begin!

-Andy

Oneilio
06-11-2005, 10:48 AM
i think since the majority of us here make orchestral music, we should just have a forum for orchestral demos, and a forum for anything else, not just experimental. For example, rock music isn't experimental, trance isn't experimental, ya know? I have some new age and house stuff, but that's not experimental. So i think maybe have a forum for non-orchestral and one for orchestral?

drew
06-11-2005, 11:36 AM
i think since the majority of us here make orchestral music, we should just have a forum for orchestral demos, and a forum for anything else, not just experimental. For example, rock music isn't experimental, trance isn't experimental, ya know? I have some new age and house stuff, but that's not experimental. So i think maybe have a forum for non-orchestral and one for orchestral?

Keep in mind, this is an EW forum and the music should primarily use their products, IMO. I still think we can use orchestral music, but in ways that may not sound orchestral in the traditional sense. There are a lot of interesting sounds you can make by altering the samples just through the kompakt player. The great thing is, this thread will evolve and ultimately what is 'Modern and Experimental' will be decided by the members who participate.

Oneilio
06-11-2005, 11:53 AM
perhaps you're right.

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 11:55 AM
By the way, other than "2001" and "The Shining", I've never heard Ligeti music in film. y Kubrick used in his last film (Eyes Wide Shut) Ligeti's Musica Ricercata number two (for piano) for four times. The piece is based only on pitch classes E#, F# and G.

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 12:07 PM
i think since the majority of us here make orchestral music, we should just have a forum for orchestral demos, and a forum for anything else, not just experimental.I have not checked but I guess there a more patches for solo instruments than ensembles e.g. in EWSO Gold. Also, it one is thinking about getting one's music played, small instrument groups have greater probability for that. And composing INTERESTING music for small ensembles is more difficult that JW emulations.
PS.
Am I right that JW doesn't orchestrate his melodies himself? If so JW emulations are actually committee music emulations...

ToddK
06-11-2005, 12:21 PM
You do realize you're just projecting your jealousy of JW's genius. :)

I would keep mouth closed about it at this point.

Good music is in the ear of the beholder. What's good to you, is not
good to someone else. Thats just how the universe is set up.

You like this, and I like that. There is nothing better, or more difficult
about any style. Composing is about expression. Not attempting to
measure the skills it takes to execute one style or another.
They are all equal, becuase they're unequal.

TK

moviemaestro
06-11-2005, 12:25 PM
I agree with you completely Todd! Perfectly said :)

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 12:50 PM
This is a fragment of a piece lasting for 11 minutes. It (the midi file) was generated in 5 seconds from the picture shown below and played by using EWQL Colossus.

http://www.synestesia.com/x05/waves_0706.mp3

http://www.synestesia.com/x05/waves.jpg

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 12:53 PM
This piece (the midi file) was generated in 5 seconds from the picture shown below and played by using EWQL Colossus.
http://www.synestesia.com/x05/naamiot0606.mp3

http://www.synestesia.com/x05/naamiot.jpg

Scott Rogers
06-11-2005, 12:56 PM
Am I right that JW doesn't orchestrate his melodies himself? If so JW emulations are actually committee music emulations...
No, you are wrong about that. You might be confusing him with Zimmer or Elfman, which is pretty odd in and of itself.

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 01:00 PM
This piece (the midi file) was generated in 5 seconds from the picture shown below and played by using EWQL Colossus.
http://www.synestesia.com/x05/oasis1205.mp3

http://www.synestesia.com/cd34/oasis.jpg

PS.
Oasis is a public project that has been developing a creative working environment for Joensuu Science Park phase 3, North Carelia, Finland. Oasis (http://www.network-oasis.com/main.site?action=siteupdate/view&id=29&menu_open=1/3)

G.Jouan
06-11-2005, 01:05 PM
I have not checked but I guess there a more patches for solo instruments than ensembles e.g. in EWSO Gold. Also, it one is thinking about getting one's music played, small instrument groups have greater probability for that. And composing INTERESTING music for small ensembles is more difficult that JW emulations.
PS.
Am I right that JW doesn't orchestrate his melodies himself? If so JW emulations are actually committee music emulations...

Actually I don't even understand why you are always talking about John Williams. You seems to speak against the hollywood music style. Why always attacking John Williams in particular, I really don't understand... Actually the demos who are often show here have a hollywood sounds, I agree, but definitly not John Williams. There is never motifs or themes sounding like John williams ones, not really hudge work on the rhythm as well. It just sounds hollywood. And I don't know why you keep attacking every body on this forum. You are definitly not an open mind, not really a problem no body is perfect, but so why not trying to find an other forum talking about you vision of music instead of staying here?? I'm not angry at all, it's just a question I was asking to myself. :confused:

Nice work on oasis by the way.

Oneilio
06-11-2005, 01:20 PM
how is a piece generated in 5 seconds? i don't get it. and if you're not the one generating the music then why do you call it yours?

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 01:22 PM
Actually I don't even understand why you are always talking about John Williams. OK. Sorry. Never mentioning JW again. BUT there are quite a many European composers who have created great modern music. But I can't remember any great modern American pieces created during this century. Please help me...

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 01:26 PM
how is a piece generated in 5 seconds? i don't get it. and if you're not the one generating the music then why do you call it yours?My Java applet does it and I have programmed that (about 500 lines of code) and I press the button to start the generation. The picture is the metascore.

gbwhale
06-11-2005, 01:26 PM
My understanding is that on occassion John Williams has used orchestrators (Herbie Spencer comes to mind) but consider that the job description of "orchestrator" for Williams is much different then the title of "orchestrator" for BT or Elfman (Not knocking these guys as I love their work). In many instances (not mentioning who) when called upon to orchestrate, in extreme it might actually be a glorified term for "ghostwriting", essentially taking a motif and constructing an entire cue down to the hit points and all. More typically a composer would hand a sketch that might be 2 lines (melody and bass or melody and chord symbols) and the cue is actually timed but not fleshed out in orchestral fashion.

In John Williams' case, it is my limited understanding that when he hands a sketch to an orchestrator, his sketches occupy 12 staves and are more like reduced scores in concert with all of the appropriate instrument designations. In this instance, the orchestrator's main duty is to be a mediary between the composer and the copyist, allowing the composer to save time and remain on schedule. Orchestrators have been used and will continue to be used by the "best" but it isn't necessarily a reflection upon overall musicianship as much as it is a reflection of limited time towards deadline.

Andrew Sigler
06-11-2005, 01:34 PM
Kubrick used in his last film (Eyes Wide Shut) Ligeti's Musica Ricercata number two (for piano) for four times. The piece is based only on pitch classes E#, F# and G.

Yes, but again these are not pieces written for film, but pieces placed in film. I would imagine that even Ligeti would speak to the difficulty of writing for film if he'd ever done it! By the way, I've written several papers concerning soundmass on both Ligeti and Penderecki, so I hope it's understood that I love and respect both of these composers.

I can talk pitch-class set, serialism, and hexachordal combinatoriality with you all day long, but it doesn't change what they are: a set of rules that define the structure of a piece. A film (wether it's an art film or hollywood summer film) gives a composer a framework withiin which that composer must show his/her artistry. I've done plenty of performance art, screaming at audiences, "outsider" art shows, and so forth. I'm probably more open to your ideas (I've visited your site several times!) than most of the people here. And I'm familiar with these arguments.

It's been my experience that people who put form above result in art often miss the point of our endeavour. They write "recipes" that are never cooked and were never meant to be eaten!!! I know...I've been that guy! I looked back at many of my early pieces and see a young composer who was obsessed with form and only form. But form alone cannot deliver art. If it could, then anyone can be an artist...just connect the dots! Following Sonata form will not make one's piece as good as Beethoven, Shubert, Ligeti etc...

By the way, I like your sound generation pieces. I've done several works based on the "unrelated subject genesis" approach. I used to generate lyrics based on random word selection from text. A friend developed a program that may work along the lines of the one you use to make music from pictures. It analyzed the actual frequencies of a given piece and would "transpose" then into the visible light spectrum! Now that's a light show! I love that sort of thing. I love that this conversation (!) is going on and that I'm not entering/reading yet another post about GB's of RAM or how to make Kontakt2 work.

-Andy

Andrew Sigler
06-11-2005, 01:37 PM
No, you are wrong about that. You might be confusing him with Zimmer or Elfman, which is pretty odd in and of itself.

It's Elfman. He writes a good melody though! Go ahead, DON'T think of the Simpsons!

I DARE you!

-Andy

groennes
06-11-2005, 01:49 PM
Just posted this under a separate thread, it might belong here,,

Darkness (http://www.tothepage.com/darkness_clip.mp3)

:)
Audun

Oneilio
06-11-2005, 01:52 PM
It's Elfman. He writes a good melody though! Go ahead, DON'T think of the Simpsons!

I DARE you!

-Andy

I thought Alf Clausen writes the music to the Simpsons?

Scott Rogers
06-11-2005, 01:57 PM
JW normally employs an 8-stave, 8 bar per page orchestral reduction type of score about 90% of the time. For films like Accidental Tourist and Presumed Innocent he used fewer staves, and when he employs a chorus such as in the recent Star Wars flicks, or more detailed divisi, or just extra large orchestral forces, he'll use 10 or more staves.

And gbwhale is right about the function that JW's "orchestrators" perform. They put the reduced score into full transposed score, and they work out a few details on the micro dynamics, bowings, register breaks, and various "clean-up" items like that - but nothing major, just stuff that is impractical to notate in a reduced score format.

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 02:02 PM
I've done several works based on the "unrelated subject genesis" approach. I used to generate lyrics based on random word selection from text. -AndyMe too. I have also experimented with lyrics. I programmed software (for Finnish) that keeps the consonants, front and Back vowels on their places in a word but changes the according to the normal probabilities used in our language. This way I get created new words that could be Finnish but which has no meaning. Then I can take any poem and feed it to my system. I will get new Finnish poems that sounds real but mean nothing. I hope that I will get EWQL Choir next week and my systems is going to start singing those new poems.A friend developed a program that may work along the lines of the one you use to make music from pictures. It analyzed the actual frequencies of a given piece and would "transpose" then into the visible light spectrum! Now that's a light show! I love that sort of thing.Wow. I can define in my system artificial scales and also pick songs to create new scale. On of those "scales" was Japanese folk song Sakura, Sakura and many Japane people have like it. You can't hear the melody but the song somehow "leaks" out from the piece. There you will find an example: the midi file "Mother' Day" on this page: http://www.synestesia.com/musitives/2002.html
Or what about Ligeti's Ricercare 2: http://www.synestesia.com/cd25/eyeswide.html

G.Jouan
06-11-2005, 02:02 PM
OK. Sorry. Never mentioning JW again. BUT there are quite a many European composers who have created great modern music. But I can't remember any great modern American pieces created during this century. Please help me...

Well I am not sure about what you want to say by "modern" but for exemple Gershwin (ok his family was from russia but he was born in america) was a damn good american composer. What about Bernstein? Of curse if by "modern" you want to say "experimental" I can't answer to the question.

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 02:09 PM
Well I am not sure about what you want to say by "modern" but for exemple Gershwin (ok his family was from russia but he was born in america) was a damn good american composer. What about Bernstein? Of curse if by "modern" you want to say "experimental" I can't answer to the question. Pieces composed during 2000 or later, please...

Andrew Sigler
06-11-2005, 02:10 PM
OK. Sorry. Never mentioning JW again. BUT there are quite a many European composers who have created great modern music. But I can't remember any great modern American pieces created during this century. Please help me...


Wow, you can't be serious.

I can only assume you mean the 20th century and not this century...determining greatness in this century will take time and reflection.

I just posted a long response to one of your previous posts because I thought perhaps you just needed a sympathetic voice. But if you actually think that there are no great modern pieces by Americans in this century you are obviously remarkably underinformed. Are you kidding? Have you even looked? It should take you less time to relieve yourself of such unforgiveably embarrassing ignorance than for your computer to write your music for you. Do you think that American music is all about film music and Britney Spears? Do you think "Star Wars" is our only cultural touchstone? Do you simply take all convenient American stereotypes and use them as a blanket when you speak? What COLLOSSAL ignorance! Do you realize that while Stravinsky was being pampered in salons by the rest of the soon-to-be overthrown Europeans (except the Germans...somebody had to do the overthrowing) Charles Ives was pioneering the rythmic and melodic concepts for which Stravinsky is STILL credited?!? Alone, in New England. HE WAS SELLING LIFE INSURANCE FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!! He invented tone-clusters, bi-tonality, polytonality, all while the Europeans were twiddling their thumbs and succumbing to the death of Romanticism! How can you be so condescending to the people on this forum when you obviously know SO LITTLE? Ives was years ahead of the pack, and I'm talking about early 20th century!

Obviously there are "quite a many European composers who have created great modern music"...that goes without saying. Do a Google search on the following: Adams, Barber, Ives, Copland, Piston, Ruggles, Gershwin, Glass, Reich, Cage, Cowell, Sessions, Ellington, Gottschalk, Nancarrow, Partch...and most of these guys are dead!!!!

And we've barely touched on Jazz and not on Popular music at all, although I'm sure somehow in your mind these are also not relevant musical forms.

Unbelieveable...

Andrew Sigler
06-11-2005, 02:11 PM
I thought Alf Clausen writes the music to the Simpsons?

He does, but Elfman wrote the main theme.

don't think of it!

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 02:13 PM
.Obviously there are "quite a many European composers who have created great modern music"...that goes without saying. Do a Google search on the following: Adams, Barber, Ives, Copland, Piston, Ruggles, Gershwin, Glass, Reich, Cage, Cowell, Sessions, Ellington, Gottschalk, Nancarrow, Partch...and most of these guys are dead!!!!
.

Most of those people died during last century. Names of GREAT modern art music *pieces*, please. Composed during last 5 years.

Andrew Sigler
06-11-2005, 02:20 PM
lgrohn...my apologies.

You can imagine my reaction when I read a post (incorrectly) that said there are no great American composers in this century...I still think of contemporary composition as "20th Century" music, which was of course the common terminology.



PEOPLE, I GAVE THIS GUY A HARD TIME FOR NO REASON!!! I'M THE JERK!!

I guess I got a little defensive there. I'm sure you can take it.



So! Contemporary American pieces. I think you would like "On the Transmigration of Souls" by John Adams. Start there and we'll see if you still want to be friends.

again, my apologies...

-Andy

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 02:43 PM
So! Contemporary American pieces. I think you would like "On the Transmigration of Souls" by John Adams. -AndyThis is my own version of the same theme:
http://www.synestesia.com/cd3/wtc.mp3


http://www.synestesia.com/cd3/wtc.jpg


I have many records from Adams but not that one. Seen one of his operas: Nixon in China.

Andrew Sigler
06-11-2005, 02:54 PM
I don't like all of his stuff, but ones I like in particular are the Violin Concerto and Gnarly Buttons. They are both from the mid to late 90's. "Transmigration" has a very etheral quality to it that I think you'd find appealing.

-Andy

Oneilio
06-11-2005, 03:43 PM
If you want modern, contemporary music, I think Wind ensembles ("band" as we call it) have some really outstanding composers for this time. Check out Vesuvius by Frank Ticheli, or anything written by Alfred Reid.
Also for other great contemporary music you could check out some compositions by Kenneth Frazelle. He's an internationally recognized composer and my uncle also! lol

But seriously, speaking of wind ensembles, i think EWQLSO does a bad job with wind ensemble music, but then again, it wasn't created for that purpose.

Evan
06-11-2005, 03:57 PM
eriic whitacre and john corgiliano are great amercian wind ensemble composers...Ill agree with Oneilo on Tichelli..Blue Shades is one of my Favs!

Oneilio
06-11-2005, 03:57 PM
oh man, October by Eric Whitacre is one of the most beautiful pieces ever....... :)

Brian Wardell
06-11-2005, 04:24 PM
But seriously, speaking of wind ensembles, i think EWQLSO does a bad job with wind ensemble music, but then again, it wasn't created for that purpose.


I'd love to see them do a big band package. I don't know what's in platinum, and if they could accurately emulate that big band sound, but that's one thing I'd love to see inside a box together, is a big band, with all the various mutes, etc. that might be needed, just the whole shebang (or however that's spelled, I'm in a little hurry, lol.). That would be fun to have, in my opinion. Anyhow, back to work. ;)

gbwhale
06-11-2005, 04:24 PM
I think it might be premature to write off the American contribution to contemporary music after only 5 years of the current century. It's like saying "the curent world champion (insert favorite sports team or person here) is the best there will ever be for the next 100 years". Entirely too soon for any conclusions yet.

As far as history in general, what makes you think those we speak of in reverence now were actually the best composers of their time? The story I think of right now is Mendehlson. He was nowhere near the composer and musician his sister Fanny was...but that's history for you. In light of that, there might be someone toiling away in general obscurity in West Virginnia that is changing the entire paradigm of music in his own small world. But more to the point, is the real point of this kind of discussion to disparage an entire country of musicians for the sake of 5 years of the current century as you now understand them? Just curious....

tchoyy
06-11-2005, 04:54 PM
Ok, this is my contribution to this topic....

My Symphonic Black Metal Demo :D

symphoblackmetal.mp3 (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/david.chochoi/symphoblackmetal.mp3)

This demo is not masterised

Be quiet, I don't grrr on :D It's only instrumental

Edit : I used EWQLSO Silver edition, DFH2 for drums, Sampletank for the female voice, I played the guitars and the bass.

Ranietz
06-11-2005, 06:51 PM
Ok, this is my contribution to this topic....

My Symphonic Black Metal Demo :D

symphoblackmetal.mp3 (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/david.chochoi/symphoblackmetal.mp3)

This demo is not masterised

Be quiet, I don't grrr on :D It's only instrumental

Edit : I used EWQLSO Silver edition, DFH2 for drums, Sampletank for the female voice, I played the guitars and the bass.

I think you got the wrong file. It's your "adventure" song. No guitars there. :)

-Ranietz-

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 09:49 PM
But seriously, speaking of wind ensembles, i think EWQLSO does a bad job with wind ensemble music, but then again, it wasn't created for that purpose.Chamber music generally is more demanding, more intimate than POMPOUS orchestral music. You can't hide missing ideas, missing creativity, missing articulations etc.

I can't see any reason why EWQL couldn't be used for chamber music also. Most of the samples are solo samples, anyway, and Kontakt gives some possibilities to increase intimacy, I guess. It is just up to experimentation. And what is best, also better possibilities for live consert presentations.

Next month I will take my iMac G5 to Viitasaari Summer Festival Workshop (http://www.timeofmusic.org/2005/index.php?page=courses). There are going to be groups of composer/artist/instrumentalist and the artist will make pictures, my software will generate music from it and the instrumentalists (or 2-3) will play his part from the screen from a muted channel(s) adding his own improvisations. The rest of channels will be played by ESQL instruments. This will happen on 10 July at 18.00 Viitasaari Theatre & School Centre (New Media Workshop Final Concert) And after that you will see my boat here (http://www.naguhamn.fi/www/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9&Itemid=10&lang=3) on the right at slot number 20 in the middle of the world greatest archipelago (http://www.travel.fi/saaristomeri//eng/lantinen.html).

Oneilio
06-11-2005, 10:05 PM
i'm not talking about chamber music, i'm talking about wind ensembles with 70+ players.

lgrohn
06-11-2005, 10:21 PM
i'm not talking about chamber music, i'm talking about wind ensembles with 70+ players.OK. Then why not?

Evan
06-12-2005, 01:51 AM
oh man, October by Eric Whitacre is one of the most beautiful pieces ever....... :)

I had the pleasure once to be conducted by Mr. Whitacre while playing octobner, I got him to sign my trumpet part afterwards, it now hangs on my wall :)

Evan
06-12-2005, 01:56 AM
OK. Then why not?

because a 30 person clarinet section a 6 tuba section, a 10 trumpet section, a saxophone section!, ext, ext, sounds alot differnet than orchestra

lgrohn
06-12-2005, 03:02 AM
because a 30 person clarinet section a 6 tuba section, a 10 trumpet section, a saxophone section!, ext, ext, sounds alot differnet than orchestraI still don't understand. My EWQLs have only instruments and instrument sections to build anything you like but I have not noticed any sample called "orchestra".

Evan
06-12-2005, 03:04 AM
are there euphoniums and saxophones-bari alto and tenor in EWQL?...also combining 10-3 clarinets does not sound the same as a 30 piece clarinat section...phasing ext

tchoyy
06-12-2005, 04:04 AM
I think you got the wrong file. It's your "adventure" song. No guitars there. :)

-Ranietz-

Oups ! It's ok now !

symphoblackmetal.mp3 (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/david.chochoi/symphoblackmetal.mp3)
:D

Evan
06-12-2005, 06:18 AM
Oups ! It's ok now !

symphoblackmetal.mp3 (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/david.chochoi/symphoblackmetal.mp3)
:D
pretty sweet

Oneilio
06-12-2005, 06:19 AM
I had the pleasure once to be conducted by Mr. Whitacre while playing octobner, I got him to sign my trumpet part afterwards, it now hangs on my wall :)

Wow that's cool. I still have the trumpet part :)

Andrew Sigler
06-12-2005, 09:04 AM
tchoyy


metal symphony


hmmmmmmmm....


queensryche anyone?


I think we need a section for these kind of tunes. Somebody put a demo up the other day that was "linkin park-esque" so maybe we should have a thread for "rock guitar metal hybrid" or something. With respect to the piece, I don't think it falls under "experimental" or "modern" in the wasy that I assume those terms were defined by Doug when he started the thread.

I am not authorized to speak for Doug of course....

DOUG DOUG DOUG what do you think?

I say new Demo catagories that are a liitle more specific!


-Andy

Doug Rogers
06-12-2005, 11:11 AM
C'mom people - you are discussing orchestral compositions here again. Please start a new thread if you want to discuss this - this thread is for modern and experimental music demos.

- Doug

lovelysilence
06-12-2005, 11:37 AM
tchoyy, it's a cool piece.
It's mixed awfully though, no transparency whatsoever.
Also you need tons of compression on the drums, i think, cause that's what they mostly do in this genre. Your snare sounds like a small tick, while i think it needs to be a firm and punchy fla with a nice reverb on it.
I would also use a wee bit of reverb on the voices and the synths too.
keep up the good work

Oneilio
06-12-2005, 02:17 PM
define experimental.
I think instead of calling this thread experimental/modern, we should just call it other demos, that can be any genre except orchestral. Because if this is only for experimental/modern, then where do the other demos go that are jazzy, or rock-ish, or electronica? I see the new topic. nevermind. lol

tchoyy
06-13-2005, 12:11 AM
tchoyy, it's a cool piece.
It's mixed awfully though, no transparency whatsoever.
Also you need tons of compression on the drums, i think, cause that's what they mostly do in this genre. Your snare sounds like a small tick, while i think it needs to be a firm and punchy fla with a nice reverb on it.
I would also use a wee bit of reverb on the voices and the synths too.
keep up the good work

Thanks lovelysilence, actually, I've just received DFH2, so It was my first test ;)
You're right, the snare is strange (default sonor snare from DFH2), I'll try to find something punchy, I think the kickdrum is good for this genre.
I don't understand why I don't use reverb, I should use it ! :D It's the same thing for my orchestral demos, it's dry... I don't have to be afraid while using reverb :D

vogelscheiss
06-13-2005, 12:53 PM
Moderately experimental but unlikely to result in a black hole:

http://vogelscheiss.com/sound/101504_kaleidoscopic_goldfish_disaster.mp3

--Chuck

drew
06-13-2005, 02:06 PM
Moderately experimental but unlikely to result in a black hole:

http://vogelscheiss.com/sound/101504_kaleidoscopic_goldfish_disaster.mp3

--Chuck

Nice. Liked that a lot. Actually, Doug started another thread for 'Rock, Jazz etc.'. This might fit better over there. Reminded me of Gershwin a bit in spots. Enjoyed your 'Stolen Hat' also.

vogelscheiss
06-13-2005, 02:21 PM
Thanks, Drew.

I guess it's more experimental in harmonies than in other respects, you're right.

--Chuck


Nice. Liked that a lot. Actually, Doug started another thread for 'Rock, Jazz etc.'. This might fit better over there. Reminded me of Gershwin a bit in spots. Enjoyed your 'Stolen Hat' also.

danpowers
06-19-2005, 08:51 AM
Getting back to the Recent American Masterpieces subject:

I think Jennifer Higdon's Concerto for Orchestra is worth hearing. It's just been recorded by the Atlanta Symphony.

Also Richard Danielpour's "Sonnets to Orpheus, Book 1" (There's also a book 2, but I haven't heard it yet.) It's on his "Elegies" CD.

I'm not sure when these were written, but they're pretty recent, and both composers are still very busy.

Doug Rogers
06-19-2005, 09:38 AM
OK, thread closed, you don't seem to care about the topic so I suggest you post your experimental music in this thread where hopefully it won't get hijacked -

http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=714