All you Thomas Newman fans sound off!

[WilshireBlvd]

Hey Everyone. I am a documentary filmmaker who also scores his films. I am working on a short doc right now and am having a tough time with the music. I know some of you have to be Thomas Newman fans and even some emulators out there. Obviously, he has a certain style (two styles actually), and I am trying to emulate his 'Green Mile/Horse Whisperer/Shawshank' flowing style (as opposed to his American Beauty 'percussive' style)style. I'm able to get melodies and harmony going that sounds similar...but there's just something missing. Are there any observations you all have about his style? Rules he seems to follow...progressions that are the basis of his style...anything I may have missed? I'm not trying to be Thomas Newman, I just want to use his music...but seeing as I can't...the next best thing is to write something that sounds like him!:) Any help? Appreciate it!!! (oh...and I have EWQLSO Gold + XP in case it matters)

[nickysnd]

I am a huge fan of TN, but let me see if I understand correctly:

Are you asking for some written descriptions of TN's style, descriptions that would be so effective that would enable you to write music sounding as if was composed by him?

Did I get it right? Is that what you expect?

[WilshireBlvd]

I am a huge fan of TN, but let me see if I understand correctly:

Are you asking for some written descriptions of TN's style, descriptions that would be so effective that would enable you to write music sounding as if was composed by him?

Did I get it right? Is that what you expect?


Umm...yes and no. I don't expect to write music at that caliber. I expect to find a way to lay a music bed down behind the images that help evoke emotion and maybe at the end, someone might say: "You know...that sounded kind of like that guy who wrote music for Finding Nemo!"

Know what I mean?

[fongi]

I'm able to get melodies and harmony going that sounds similar...but there's just something missing.

I wonder what could be missing Thomas perhaps ?? :D :D :D

[nickysnd]

Yeah, the "Thomas" factor is sorta important... Are you sure he is unavailable a couple of days later this week, or during the weekend maybe? :rolleyes:

As I see it, it's very unlikely someone to be able to put into words TN's style, so here's what I'd do in your situation -

If you want people to think "Finding Nemo", you may want to take down on paper some traks from that score, analyse them and see in detail what's inside them, and then put up something similar, using same details.

HTH

[shnurgle]

Uh...he has more than two "styles" dude, whatever that means. I think you're a bit out of your league here. If you're interested in writing music that evokes the spirit of Newman's, my suggestion is to transcribe as much of it as possible. I'm afriad however, that if you're looking for a "cheat sheet" or set of tricks that will make you sound like Thomas Newman you've picked the wrong composer. He's one of the most original and versatile composers working today, and while a few of his scores have been knocked off beyond belief, he shouldn't be reduced to those alone. If you're looking for a composer to rip off without putting in any effort, there are plenty of them in hollywood that are pretty much lick-based writers; Tommy-boy aint one of them.

At the risk of speaking frankly, I would suggest hiring a composer to score your films. Someone with a slightly broader approach to writing music than trying to copy someone else's music via licks and shortcuts. Just an idea...

[priblejr]

repeating lines (clicks, strings, etc.)....piano that is non-rhythmic, and trypically in fourth and fifth intervals. he also uses a lot of min7 maj7 and 6ths. Don't use the root in your chords either, he doesn't seem to do that, he lets the strings or low brass do it.


Ummm, atmospheres as well.


Jon

[nickysnd]

repeating lines (clicks, strings, etc.)....piano that is non-rhythmic, and trypically in fourth and fifth intervals. he also uses a lot of min7 maj7 and 6ths. Don't use the root in your chords either, he doesn't seem to do that, he lets the strings or low brass do it.


Ummm, atmospheres as well.

You have to be kidding...

[WilshireBlvd]

repeating lines (clicks, strings, etc.)....piano that is non-rhythmic, and trypically in fourth and fifth intervals. he also uses a lot of min7 maj7 and 6ths. Don't use the root in your chords either, he doesn't seem to do that, he lets the strings or low brass do it.


Ummm, atmospheres as well.


Jon


Thank you! Nice that someone can just answer a question without getting an attitude. I really appreciate your help...that's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.

[nickysnd]

You're not saying that using those suggestions you'll get some TN-sounding cues, are you?! ...

Attitude is quite important in film music, so maybe you'll benefit more from taking good care of your own attitude towards film music.

[WilshireBlvd]

Whatever, dude. Start a blog for people who care.

[nikolas]

You know, having someone being blunt in your face can be good, and Nicky is an expert at that! (Shruggle as well, even if I can't remember how to spell his nick... :()

If you're looking to mess up and make a really sloppy job then this is the way to do it... If you're looking for something else then maybe try actually working as a composer does (by not copying other styles, or by AT LEAST studying a little by him/herself), or get another composer to do it for you.

Blog huh?

An interesting idea indeed...

BTW, I don't listen much film music anymore, so I don't know anything about Thomas I'm afraid... Sorry for the OT...

[audiochild]

why don't you make it sound like Hans Zimmer? :p :eek:

ROFL :D ;)







I still didn't use these ones: :mad: :confused: :o :) :( :rolleyes: :cool:

[priblejr]

Well I don't see any of us being masters of our art, otherwise I don't think we would all be here chatting it up....we would be working... ;)

Well, I am just giving him some ideas on his style....listen to any of his music...it is often (not always) a solo piano with some atmospheric synth or instruments that have been filtered in the background, and then strings or woodwinds either producing the chord progression or repeating the melody or part of the melody.

Also, he likes to use the mandolin and the acoustic guitar (strumming) but you may have to do that live because I have yet to hear a guitar that doesn't sound like synths....he does often use a REAL orchestra to achieve the sound. Listen to "Scent of a Woman" main titles (before the percussion).

Cinderella Man, American Beauty (without the percussion), Meet Joe Black, etc. He creates curious sounds with the clarinet, oboe, bassoon, flute, and piano.

Stick to those and I think you will be ok sound wise. As far as the mechanics.....well, I leave that to Mr. Newman.


PS: Nickysnd.....just because it is cold up there in Canada doesn't mean you have to make it cold here. This isn't the first time I have heard people criticize your attitude in here so you may want to take some of the people's advice. Or is that too blunt? I am humble, yet honest, but most of all, courteous. I guess you would have to leave the keyboard for a minute or two and actually interact with people. Courteousness and sensitivity goes a long way with strangers.

Respectfully (of course)

Jon

[shnurgle]

Jon, Wilshire,
I think the point here is that Newman's music is quite a bit beyond a few repeatable techniques, which is what was requested. The truth is that the same observations Jon made about Newman's work (piano with string and/or woodwind accompaniment, acoustic guitar strumming, quartal harmonization, use of major and minor 7th chords, use of atmospheric synth pads) can be said of every other composer in the industry, and because of his versatility and mastery, even if it were possible to sum up the key active ingredients in Newman's music in one forum post, it wouldn't amount to much in the "helpfulness" department with regard to acurately reproducing it. Apologies if this comes off as attitudinal, but you're not going to find the easy answer your looking for; here or anywhere.

I guess it would be simpler if you mentioned a specific score you're looking to emulate, because, again, the man is versatile and his sound isn't limited to one (or two) specific moods alone. Asking "how do i sound like Newman" could produce twenty completely different responses. I can only GUARANTEE you that nothing you read on a blog is going to make you sound like him.

Finally, regarding negative vibes, no one's trying to break anyone's heart here, but I think you can understand how a composer's forum might not take too kindly to your post, which (with due respect) demonstrates a general lack of understanding and (more importantly) a lack of apreciation for the depth of Newman's work and the process of composition as a whole, which are both taken quite seriously here.

[nickysnd]

Whatever, dude. Start a blog for people who care.
Your "witty" dismissal sounds a bit too personal, but have it your way.

I believe that my advice showed that I do care about your problem, when I pointed to one possible solution to it. I have tried that solution a couple of times and it worked (although I'm not a big fan of that approach, it was the directors' desire - some film makers have this sort of "short-cut" mentality about film music...)

I wish you best luck with your project, truly - and I hope that one not-too-distant day you'll see film music in a more realistic way.

[nickysnd]

PS: Nickysnd.....just because it is cold up there in Canada doesn't mean you have to make it cold here.
This the warmest winter here in decades! I know what you're trying to say, but maybe your "thermometer" has a problem. I didn't mean to be "cold", hence my advices above (which BTW are quite effective and realistical, unlike yours that say nothing specific about TN's "style" - the features you described are common to many other composers, so nothing unique to TN)

This isn't the first time I have heard people criticize your attitude in here so you may want to take some of the people's advice. Or is that too blunt?
It's hardly too blunt. I can imagine why you salivate when other people criticize me. Rest assured that I have no problem whatsoever with being criticized, I can always criticize back.

I am humble, yet honest, but most of all, courteous.
Hallelujah! Go tell it on the mountain!
Although, I thought that I made it clear some time ago that I am the most humble, honest, courteous, helpful and selfless person in this part of the galaxy - how selfish of you to think otherwise!

I guess you would have to leave the keyboard for a minute or two and actually interact with people.
If you think I post too much, please do skip my posts.
Interact for the sake of interaction is a desirable goal on internet? For whom?

Courteousness and sensitivity goes a long way with strangers.
I find addressing issues and not strangers a far more healthier and helpful habit.

Respectfully (of course)

Jon
... of course, respectfully.

Try sincerity and see how long a way does it go with stangers.

Edit -
Be Who You Are And Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter And Those Who Matter Don't Mind.” -- Dr Seuss. (http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/stuff/be-who-you-are-and-say-what-you-feel-because-those-who-mind-dont-matter-and-those-who-matter-dont-mind)

[priblejr]

Yeah, I forgot how much more you know about music than everyone else here.

JP

[nickysnd]

Yeah, I forgot how much more you know about music than everyone else here.
Thanks, but I beg to differ - for at least four reasons:
- I have no interest in proving my presumed superiority in whatever domain
- I don't believe in ranking music knowledge
- I'm not holding the info that would enable me to judge what you presume that I'm judging
- I don't make ass-umptions on people, as you, sarcastically, just did.

Your lame irony says nothing about me and my musical knowledge. You are fighting your strawman (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html), and not me.

[dcoscina]

To get back to the topic at hand, Newman's latest effort, The Good German is quite something. Even though he still has his stylistic traits present, they are subdued in favor of a '30s harmonic style that is highly chromatic and quite dense at times. Newman eschewed his groove-based tendencies in favor of a more thematic developed idiom on this project. I know the film has met with luke-warm reception but the score is fantastic and I urge all fans of Newman's or even Golden Age film scoring to check this out because it is very much evocative of Steiner, Rosza, and even Newman's ol' pop Alfred. Nice work.

As for the remarks about Canada, I'm not sure many people realize that Point Pelle in Southern Ontario is as south as the northern tip of California. Portland is more north of Toronto. Same goes for Seattle. And many other mid-western cities in the US. I know it's kinda find to make comments about igloos and all about Canada but it's really a misnomer.
EH? :D

[priblejr]

Your lame irony says nothing about me and my musical knowledge. You are fighting your strawman, and not me.



Well I may be fighting my strawman, but you're ugly. So there, I said it.

-Love,

JP

[nickysnd]

Well I may be fighting my strawman, but you're ugly. So there, I said it.

-Love,

JP
Hate is a boomerang.

Care.


Edit -
I'm sorry that you love an ugly strawman. :D

[dcoscina]

I must echo Shnurgle on this matter. Logging onto a board where composers populate in order to ask for the "recipe" for sounding like another composer is a little.....naive. And it's not Nick's nor Shnurg's fault to be completely candid about this. It's even more puzzling when said party get's upset when informed of this naivete.

Oh well. Newman is great. And I'd love to hear his Little Children score. It's apparently very good.

*******************

[nickysnd]

Oh well. Newman is great. And I'd love to hear his Little Children score. It's apparently very good.
Me too.

Also, if you guys dind't already, check out The Good German. Stunning! :cool:

(talking about Thomas Newman "style"... ;) , in that film there's a lot of Alfred Newman "style" - forgive the oversimplification...)

[fongi]

Good Germans ?? where ??? no just kidding I´m surrounded by ´em :D :D :D

[Crossingsound]

Hey there

I don't find anything wrong with asking about a particuilar composers style, and how to learn it better. Don't neccesarily think alot of the replies were helpful, and to the original poster, I am sorry, and for those who tried to help him, I think you did a noble effort. No need to critisize anyone here. I think East West "can" be one of the nicest forums, and I would hate to see it otherwise. Unfortunetlly those who give thier Strong opinion, end up coming off sort of rude, though they may not be intending to do so, it does come off that way, I can vouch for that.

I think the best answer lies somwhere within these posts, is that his style is really hard to put down in a few pat answers, and possibly studying his work is the best answer, though if there were one word to wrap up what he does, that would be Excellence. So strive for excellence and your own unique voice in composition my friend.

[Edx]

I think you just need to sit down and really listen closely to what it is you wish to emulate. Start with say the piano (if the piano is in the track you like) and come up with an idea that works the same way, then add instruments that work in a similar way as to the reference track you like. Thats the best way IMO

[audiochild]

hey I don't know if this helps but
usually in newman's style the stringed musicians play the strings with a bow or pluck the strings. the percussion is done by felt mallets and the rest blows in the wind.

just my 2 cents :)
























:D

[nickysnd]

lol!

No it's just your 1 cent and a half, for you forgot the piano that is played with both hands, mostly with the fingers. :D

[audiochild]

lol!

No it's just your 1 cent and a half, for you forgot the piano that is played with both hands, mostly with the fingers. :D

the piano in newman's music is mostly played by one hand. lol