Need help choosing a new sound card..

[King David]

I need some help choosing a new sound card. First of all, im NOT a producer...i just like to create music and enjoy doing it!!:) So with that in mind, i dont need a $1000 sound card.
My budget only allows me a $650.00 card..

I would like to be able to used at least 2 audio/mic inputs if that is possible with that budget range, if now..then just one card that wont give me any latency.

I use Cubase SX 3 and Sonar and Sonar Home Studio 4 with a Windows XP Pro SP2 computer running an AMD 64 +3200 CPU, 200GB HD and 2 GB memory.

Any help will really be apreciated...:D

[LEX]

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FireBox/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Firepod/

LEX

[Se7eN]

I use the firebox as Lex posted above. It's a great unit. From my experience, for the money, the firebox/firepod have amazing preamps. You do get the two inputs in the front which are phatom power, and then you get an additional 3 line-ins on the back. So a total of 5 inputs on the unit.
Plus the headphone volume knob goes to 11.

"Why not just make 10 louder?"

...

"But this one goes to 11."

:D

[LEX]

I use the firebox as Lex posted above. It's a great unit. From my experience, for the money, the firebox/firepod have amazing preamps. You do get the two inputs in the front which are phatom power, and then you get an additional 3 line-ins on the back. So a total of 5 inputs on the unit.
Plus the headphone volume knob goes to 11.

"Why not just make 10 louder?"

...

"But this one goes to 11."

:D
HAHA.

"Sometimes you need that little push over the cliff.
Why not make 10 the top number and make that a little louder.
These goto 11."

LEX

[tys]

I got an EMU-1820m very cheap. I´m not sure if it´s out of sale yet, but it is a very nice product at a very nice price

[LEX]

The EMU drivers aren't great. Actually, someone tested on my forum using the 1212 in a slave system and it performed poorly.

Don't buy something because it is cheaper. In the long run you will have less problems with a company that does better driver development.

LEX

[Petronome]

Anyone has experience with the Mackie Satellite? It looks awesome feature-wice, but how are the drivers? It is very affordable for the feature-set, too.

Petri

[nickysnd]

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-FireWire-410-Computer-Recording-Interface?sku=701385

Sounds great, easy to route audio and to control it through software. Works with ProTools, which is very important to me.

[Petronome]

Oh, and what about MBox2 Pro? Any experience with that (mainly how it works with other software than PT)? That should be quite cool device, as it could run PT LE, as well as other softs.

Petri

[LEX]

The ProTools ASIO drivers suck.

So if you want low latency, stay away from Mboxes.

Also, the analog out are down buy -10dB and are noisey.

LEX

[Phantom]

Saffire LE or Saffire are great sounding devices but I would not recommend them for reliability. The case is not sturdy and it's always cutting itself off and causing loud pops to your monitors when that happens.

I know you did not bring it up - but just giving you a heads up on it :D

So anyways...

I suggest the Audio Kontrol 1 by Native Instruments.

I know I made a post complaining about the fact there are no 64-bit drivers yet, but they are working on the Vista release at the moment, so they say :rolleyes:

Anyway, the sound quality is top notch. 24 bit 192 khz

Made in heavy duty metal surrounding - part alluminium to keep cool and non-scratchable :)

It has a guitar input which is simply great when used with Guitar Rig 2. I have done so and it sounds fab!

Also has Mic input - XLR/Jack connection

Plus twin monitor outputs for attaching extra monitors (3 & 4) - very handy for swtiching, but I have had no need to use this yet.

It may be just a USB audio interface, but trust me from experience, it easily competes with most firewire devices.

Best of luck! :)

[LEX]

Sorry to keep raining on you Phantom.

Stay away from USB audio interfaces. They are flakey at best.
while some have luck with it, others don't.

Also, It has been known that software companies that try to get into hardware have terrible support and eventually drop there hardware products.
When selecting an audio card, select from a company who's job it is, is to make audio cards.
Their driver support will be better, and more often updated.

The preferance would be PCI-e, PCI then Firewire. Though Firewire has some issues, but its peer to peer arcitecture will be less problematic when running at higher Sample Rates.

RE: Saffire.

Even though it is advertised that it will work at 192, it doesn't.
Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 manual, the monitoring capabilites of this interface become inoperable beyond 48k.

So even if you wanted to work at 96k, you can't hear it.

An expensive waste of money.

LEX

[Phantom]

not to worry LEX

It is always a pleasure for me to talk 'tech' with you :)

I am learning something too

In fact, being that I have the Audio Kontrol 1, I believe now it was designed for 32-bit windows, not to mention, a Windows system running on a LAPTOP - hence the mobility of the unit.

In my situation, do you see a better soundcard I can make use out of? No more than £250 please ;)

I have a wonderful Dual XEON server PC - tomorrow will be bumped up to 4gb RAM.

I would like to use 64-bit Windows, which I have a new copy of.

I am also using a fantastic pair of Tannoy System 800A monitors:
http://www.tannoy.com/System800a

Please can you tell me what best suited soundcard is right for me for use with such speakers

I definitely want 24-bit 192khz

64-bit compatible of course :)

Please give me a few good choices from your top list in my budget if you have any in mind.
Would much appreciate the help.

And also bare in mind... I have a standard Behringer MX 1604A mixer which unfortunately is discontinued now, but does not mean it is not usable or not good:
http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=MX1604A&lang=eng

Am I using the right mixer to do the job?

I did not use my mixer for long and when I was I only used it through cheap cables just for connection purposes, in a very unauthodox fashion.
What is the best way of connecting this type of mixer to a soundcard? Cables, etc...?

Sorry to bug you with all this info LEX

Thanks

Ezra

[LEX]

I would just wait. If you are at a limited budget, save until you can get something decent.

THe M-audio 410 is a decent device, but then again it is all about the drivers.

Personally, I would look in terms of PCI or PCI-e cards.

RME, Lynx.

I don't understand everyones "need" to have 192k cards.

It seems that the "marketing" has worked in selling it. Unless you are doing high end recording and mastering, I don't see the point.

Then again, if you were you wouldn't be using a $400 audio card.

If you don't limit your self to "192k", you'll find alot of great cards available.
Presonus actually sounds very good for the money.

I have compared my Central Station DAC's with the Benchmark DAC's. They are sooo close.
The Benchmark has a slight edge on the top and bottom.

I don't see anything wrong with your mixer. But again, why go 192k if you are going into that.
You would hear a difference with a Dangerous summing AMP($2700)and a Weiss converter.

Bare in mind, the Weiss converters are $20,000 for 8 channels.
The other option for "192k" would be the UAD 2192 - $4700. Exceptional sound.

The point I am trying to make is that you can see what these things "really" cost and how a $400 USB interface can't compare at 192k. No offense.

So don't limit yourself because you are looking for "192k".
The best bang for the buck audio converter wise will be RME. But that is far over 250EU.

Look at M-audio, Presonus. If it is working right now, stick with it, save a little more money and get something down the line.
Even if they highest it goes is 96k.

All of them will support 24bit.

I know what it can be like in having to choose a product and money is limited.
I came from the day when there was no computer, and I had an 8 track reel to reel.
But what I learned is that over time, trying to save money ended up costing me more in the long run.

That is why I spent extensive amounts of time testing drivers and various audio cards and systems.
Though I have never been a "MOTU" fan, I went there any way after testing their drivers. It worked, was stable and gave me 96 I/O on 1 PCI card.

AS far as 64bit drivers. They are all in beta except MOTU (which was in beta from the 15th of december 2006 to the 15th of JAN, 2007) . Hardly a beta period.
My guess is that no users tested it, so they just released it because no one complained.

Your step into the 64bit world maybe a bit premature. You might consider waiting it out a bit and see how things come together.

LEX

[Phantom]

very helpful indeed LEX and very informative, thank you

i know i may be sounding impatient and as though i am hasting into it

but i cant wait around forever on this because i am getting my 2 extra gb ram today

i am also getting an upgrade to cubase studio 4 (hope you dont hate me now LEX :D )

LOL

It's only a £70 upgrade so im not really losing on anything.

coming back to the soundcard, i will carry on working with my current setup.

even if i install 2 more gb ram making up to 4gb total, is it still okay to carry on working, or should i not install that extra 2 gb yet if im staying with 32-bit xp?

i mean, it would be better for me to keep it in my pc, ready installed for when i need it i mean

choosing a soundcard - well i will definitely wait few more months to see a change in the drivers.

are you sure i should not just pack it up now and go for another PCI card?

what about my old Delta Audiophile 24/96? it is pci-express compatible

my brother owns the delta 1010, which i know is far superior by hearing the sound quality.

if i got this from him, do you think it is my best bet?

saves me some cash and gives me chance to work with my stuff.

:)

[LEX]

PCI-e is a different form factor.

And none of the M-audio stuff is PCI-e.

The only people making PCI-e is MOTU, RME and Lynx.

The 10/10 will work, but in a standard PCI slot.

You might as well get the RAM, but then again that type of RAM is likely to be available to quiet sometime, so you could always get it when you are ready.

If you aren't going to use the 3 gig switch, or go to 64bit yet then the extra 2 gigs isn't going to give you much.

Cubase 4 is fine, but the number of problems cropping up is likely (depending on how you use it) to cause you to spend more time trying to figure out what is going on then working with it.
For example, toggling the timebase breaks the automation on that track.

LEX

[Phantom]

LEX my friend...

you are so going to hate me for this :D

I went to the store and they took back my Audio Kontrol 1 in exchange for credit.

After speaking with them (very helpful I must admit) for over 1 hour, they suggested that I do not go for PCI card.

Why?

Because if I do go for an internal soundcard, then I am talking a lot of money.
Plus, I don't have such a great mixer, so my Tannoy System 800A's connected to my mixer with a cheap, standard PCI card...would be a waste.

So they showed me some really good USB and F.Wire interfaces.

They showed me the E-MU USB interface, which like the Audio Kontrol 1 was up to 192khz. No point since I wont be using it. But besides that, the sound quality is good no doubt.

I also found the Edirol UA-25

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=704&ParentId=114

It is much cheaper than my Audio Kontrol 1 and has even better quality. Plus all the inputs I need - guitar for guitar rig 2, mic pre-amps, etc...

Well, that's the one I went for LEX

I know you wanted me to go for PCI and I kept telling the store, PCI is what my friends suggest, and my friends are users of such devices and they work with professionals.

But still they told me not to waste my money on something I won't ever need.

I did not side them or against you. I just followed by personal needs for what I wan to do.

I would like ot use my mixer again, but it's a crappy old mixer, discontinued, and way below the standards to show me the true quality of a soundcard and my speakers.

So I went for the USB interface once again. They say that a lot of users are buying this interface and going to 64-bit.

I will get back to you after testing it with the following hardware/software:

Guitar Rig 2
Cubase SL3
EWQL (of course) ;) :)

Windows XP 64-bit

Will get back to you all in a bit.

In the meantime please tell me what you think of the UA-25

I do hope I made the right choice.

Thanks again

Ezra

[LEX]

well, remember you are taking advice from a bunch of guys in a music store that don;t know much about anything.

It is true here too. They push product, that is it.

They don't understand the way drivers work, how the drivers impact the system and how USB or Firewire communicates with your system.
They really don't know much about anything they are talking about. You can tell them that.

EMU drivers aren't the greatest. I would have chosen a MOTU over the EMU.

In the long run, it is all up to you and what works for you and your budget range.

AS long as it is working for you and you aren't having problems, then it is all good.

What I would do, is test it under a heavy fire session and see how it holds up. As you grow, you will start using more power, plugins ect.
See how the unit holds up under those conditions. Test low latency and see how far you can go down without it giving you problems.

In the long run you may find that you want to go down to a lower latency and still use plugins, but will probably find that the audio card and driver does perform at low latencies.

If you get to that point, then you might want to consider stepping up.

Hope everything works out and never trust a music store salesman. They know nothing.

LEX

[Phantom]

Yes.... I too agree and thats what I meant when I say I am not siding the saleman....

I know they are talking bull.

But I must admit, from all the places that like to kiss-up to customers, I must say that this place I went to was pretty good in giving me truthful info.

They even wanted me to save money and go for one best suited for my needs.

And man-o-man-o-MAN!!!

The Edirol UA-25 in conjunction with my Tannoy System 800A is absolutely fantastic.

So far I am really enjoying and appreciating every piece of music I listen to a lot more than before. And when I say before, I mean in comparison to when I had my System 800A's hooked up to the Audio Kontrol 1 and the Saffire LE.

Now you may think I like this so much because I have not really seen whats out there.
Of course I don't doubt that. But so far from what I have had, this Edirol kicks butt.

I just hope it holds up and won't give me any problems.

I am on Windows 64-bit by the way ;)

I have not gone as far as testing with Cubase SL3 yet, but I will install it soon.

So far I have been playing back "The Rock" OST :D
I always test this soundtrack and "Pirates Of The Carribean" :)

Well let's see how things go. I did not get Cubase Studio 4 yet. Will be shortly (on order)

LEX I just want to say thank you very much for your kind suggestions and support.
Nice to see us looking out for each other :)

Kindest regards,

Ezra

PS - It is true.... that if the product works for me with no problems and if I am happy with its performance, then all is okay

:);)

[Phantom]

So.....King David...:)

You have quite a good budget for a pretty amazing card.

You obviously don't need to hear about my Edirol.

But I would just like to say it is a pretty decent device.

Best of luck on your search and my apollogies if I kind of stormed in on your thread :)

Best,

Ezra

[Petronome]

What's with the PCI-e interfaces, anyway? Still (practically) none exists. I'd think that would be a great choise of 'platform' for, say Mac Pro. I'm considering a Mac Pro, and apparently it is still firewire with it, then?

What is the RME's PCI-e interface you were talking about, Lex? I can't find any... :confused:

Petri

[LEX]

http://www.proaudio.de/news/beitraege/2007_01-16.html

RME PCI-e cards. Available March.

http://www.lynxstudio.com/pr20070118b.html

Lynx PCI-e Cards.

https://www.motu.com/store_products/upgrades/pcie-424

MOTU.

There will probably be more down the road. But usually the better companies come out with them first.
AS it becomes more mainstream, you will see more.

LEX

[Petronome]

Ok, seems cool.

I was hoping something more like HDSP 9632 from RME, though. I currently own that card, and it is absolutely perfect for my needs. Drivers are rock-solid, latency is minimal, converters really do the job, and the 2 in 2 out is enough for me (as there's the ADAT for more input, for future). So a PCI-e version of that would be awesome. Some PCI-e-Multiface combo should be cool too, but the price range 800-1200 euros is just too much, as I really don't need all that stuff.

Petri

[King David]

wow...all this responses gives me a headache...too much info for my very limited knowledge..:confused:

My new souncard will get here next week..i will record on Cubase SX3..then get it on a cd and listen the difference, i hope it gets the job done..if not, i will simply returned and keep looking.

Tx all for the advice, will keep you post about my new card and i will also post my humble music composition...:o

Regards..

[Petronome]

wow...all this responses gives me a headache...too much info for my very limited knowledge..:confused:

My new souncard will get here next week..i will record on Cubase SX3..then get it on a cd and listen the difference, i hope it gets the job done..if not, i will simply returned and keep looking.

Tx all for the advice, will keep you post about my new card and i will also post my humble music composition...:o

Regards..

Don't take too much headache, as long as you're happy with your card there's no need to buy anything else just because it should be better. When you realize that you need something your interface doesn't offer, then it's time for change.

Petri

[nikolas]

Hi all!

One important question for me (who will eventually buy a new computer, along with a new sound card and everything else...):

Right now, I'm using an awful sound card which was in the motherboard when I got the computer. Never bothered to change sound card, didn't care about 24-bit, or 96 Khz (at the time), and I don't have any extro equipment. which means that everything is done in Cubase.

That said, is the quality of my tracks/mp3s/wavs/whatever showing the quality of my card. Cause I've never heard a comment like "you know, get a better sound card, because right now your sound card is creating problems..." or such...

The problems I suspect are mainly two: a little hiss to the headphones, and high latency. Both of which I don't care atm, because I don't have any midi controler, so don't mind any kind of latency, and the hissing I've learned to live with it, since I'm also getting it to whatever music I listen from ym computer and I can compaire...

Of course I understand that better sound card will mean:
i. higher resolution (24-bit, 96 khz), well because platinum IS a dream!
ii. lower latency (cause I will get a keyboard some day...)
iii. pre-amp inputs (at least a couple) for some decent mics...
iv. What else?

Anyways can anybody verify that in my current system the quality of the sound card does not really show, as I hope/sugest/assume? :)

[LEX]

Hi all!

One important question for me (who will eventually buy a new computer, along with a new sound card and everything else...):

Right now, I'm using an awful sound card which was in the motherboard when I got the computer. Never bothered to change sound card, didn't care about 24-bit, or 96 Khz (at the time), and I don't have any extro equipment. which means that everything is done in Cubase.

That said, is the quality of my tracks/mp3s/wavs/whatever showing the quality of my card. Cause I've never heard a comment like "you know, get a better sound card, because right now your sound card is creating problems..." or such...

The problems I suspect are mainly two: a little hiss to the headphones, and high latency. Both of which I don't care atm, because I don't have any midi controler, so don't mind any kind of latency, and the hissing I've learned to live with it, since I'm also getting it to whatever music I listen from ym computer and I can compaire...

Of course I understand that better sound card will mean:
i. higher resolution (24-bit, 96 khz), well because platinum IS a dream!
ii. lower latency (cause I will get a keyboard some day...)
iii. pre-amp inputs (at least a couple) for some decent mics...
iv. What else?

Anyways can anybody verify that in my current system the quality of the sound card does not really show, as I hope/sugest/assume? :)

Well, the D/A converters have alot to do with it. You can have all of the above and more, but you send it out poor D/A converters and it will still sound like S.
I didn't bring up converters before because most people don't care or can't tell the difference and the price is usually higher.

Pretty much any sound card you buy today will be able to do 24/96, so no worries there.
Your lower latencies will come from well written drivers that allow lower latency without over taxing your CPU.
Preamps are subjective, and I find most of them built into a card not worth it, except for the Presonus ones. For whatever reason, they sound very useable to me for some things.

With a decent sound card, their won't be any hiss usually.

With the Presonus, you will get all of the above, and little to break the pocket book.
Read my Firewire FAQ first, and make sure you have the right stuff for firewire.

If you want to go PCI, there is RME and Lynx, both have excellent converters(no pre's though) and are a bit more expensive.

LEX

[Kostas]

just a question about preamps, is any big difference between presonus preamps and rme ones? I own a rme fireface400 not for recording though but I have to make few recordings in the near future (with an AKG c4000b mic)

Thanks

kostas

[Randall Flagg]

What do you guys think about M-Audio's Delta 1010LT ?