Workflow question: (Volumes in Cubase)

[JSP]

hello,

In my ongoing quest to adopt a faster/ comprehensive workflow regarding music creation, I thought I would pose yet another question. (I had asked this on the Cubase forums, but received only a brief reply.)


At what point do you incorporate volume adjustments?

Normally I'll make them per track as I compose, during the early midi stage of things, to get a better feel for the overall composition. ie: fade ins/outs.

... But before I convert to audio, I find I have to:

Copy that midi tracks volume changes, disable Read function and set this near full, create audio mixdown, then paste my original midi track volume changes to the newly created audio wav track (set that to "Read"), then disable the entire original midi track, then move my wav track back up near my original midi for better organization....

It's seems like allot of steps.. especially when working with 30 -40 tracks

Any better methods out there?


~Jeff

[nikolas]

I, personally, work as follows (cubase):

I work on the midi tracks, all together, or NOT all together, depending on the project. For example the choirs are worked seperately (RAM issues).

I always, no matter if I can or not, bounce each instrument seperately, and I mix everything in audio. I find it much better to automate the volume, and gain/reduce/normalize as I go, which is dead easy with audio tracks, than dealing with volume or CC11 in midi.

So in midi I:

* Tweak expression a little
* Tweak mod wheel
* Tweak velocities
* Tweak Tempo map
* Tweak lengths, sometimes

in audio I:

* Tweak volume
* Tweak gain
* Tweak generally mixing
* Tweak reverb in some cases (for example a little added in the percussion and a tad less in the brass).

It is rather lengthy but that's how I work. I don't, yet, have project that need doing in a week so I'm really pressured for time...

[jwd]

Wow that sounds like a lot of work especially since I have around 50+ tracks. I was thinking about trying out Cubase, but now I’m not so sure. In Sonar, I just hit Ctrl-a to select all, and then export… Done. All automation adjustments (fade ins/outs and various other envelopes) are taken care of, and the Wav or Mp3 file is generated.

[nikolas]

Hem...

You can do that with Cubase.

Remember the thread is about workflow, not what is the fastest way to do it. It's personalised opinion.

That said. If you do all the tweaking and feel happy with how the midi sounds straight away (what most people do actually), you're more than welcome to go Menu -> Files -> Export to audio -> Done!

It's not that difficult, or any different than sonar/Logic, that I know...

I just like mixing in audio.

[JSP]

Thanks Nikolas.. that was very informative (what I was looking for)

Interesting... You'll create each track separately, then bounce/mixdown to audio.


I too mixdown each track separately to audio, however during the composing stage, I find its difficult to compose without hearing the full picture..I need to hear it all together with their subtleties.. ie strings fading into brass, lowering the piano track etc... this gives me a better idea regarding timing.



Are you working linear?... if for example your score begins with piano then merges into strings, then brass and piano take over... , You'll firstly create the piano via midi, bounce this to audio, then make your tweaks. Then create a midi string track, bounce this to audio make your tweaks.. then write a brass/piano track and do the same...?

I would find this impossible to compose without hearing everything at once.
After all, once you convert to audio, the tempo becomes impossible to work with.


In my case, I'll certainly adjust the wav's volume... it's far better that way.... But I'll have to copy my midi's volume track, and paste it in the new audio... a bit of a pain.



Thanks for the input..

[jwd]

Interesting… maybe I don’t quite understand the reason for bouncing Midi tracks to audio. When I play back my tracks through the sequencer, all my automation (fading, etc) just the way JSP describes plays back that he wants to “hear the full picture” is exactly what I hear - all 64 tracks (now) playing at once. All my automation tweaks are in the tracks themselves. Then when I export it, it sounds exactly the same. Hmmm… maybe the fact that I have 5 instances of Kontakt running at once has something to do with it.

I’d still like to try out Cubase SX3 eventually – good luck JSP.

Jwd-

[nikolas]

I write in pencil and paper first. This is why I personally don't (especially, although it is highly debatable) need to "hear" the score before finished. :-\

simmilary having a score by my side helps me to realise much better each instrument, with dynamics etc...

It's all a matter of workflow...

No, I work by adding the whole orchestra into a single project and then tweak as I go, all the instruments. In some cases I will solo the flute in a passage or something, or solo all the strings, or all the woods or something, but never the less I do try in the end to get an impression, but of course largely unmixed.

jwd: I bounce to audio, for RAM reasons. Sometimes my RAM is simply not enough! Maybe if I had large and long lines I could but with 16ths on a fast tempo my hard disk (7200 rpm) simply can't handle playing everything at once...

[jwd]

jwd: I bounce to audio, for RAM reasons. Sometimes my RAM is simply not enough! Maybe if I had large and long lines I could but with 16ths on a fast tempo my hard disk (7200 rpm) simply can't handle playing everything at once...
Ok I got ya - I'm using a 64 bit OS and sequencer with 4GB of RAM, so that makes sense now... I come from a pencil and paper background too - so from a sequencing standpoint, I'm still kind of a noob :D

Edit: I did however start out using XP 32bit, but since I was limited to the amount of Kontakt plug-ins I was able to open, I switched to x64 and have been happy ever since.

[JSP]

Nokals, Composing with pen and paper?... never heard of it .;)

All jokes aside... yes, this would indeed explain your workflow. Must be nice to hear the composition in your head..

Myself?. Can't hear thing...I'm somewhat musically challenged, which is why I'll need to solidify all my tracks as I go.

Still, I'm always on the lookout to find a faster more efficient way of composing within Cubase.
I guess other than learning to read/write music, I think my workflow is as streamlined as I can get.


Thanks for the input!

~Jeff

[Debinani]

So in midi I:

* Tweak expression a little
* Tweak mod wheel
* Tweak velocities
* Tweak Tempo map
* Tweak lengths, sometimes

in audio I:

* Tweak volume
* Tweak gain
* Tweak generally mixing
* Tweak reverb in some cases (for example a little added in the percussion and a tad less in the brass).



This is exactly what I do as well. I can't seem to get the midi volume control to do squat in Sonar, so if I have to take the edge off (or put the edge on) a track (and just can't hammer the velocity enough) I do it in audio, as well as putting in gain curves and whatnot.

[jwd]

This is exactly what I do as well. I can't seem to get the midi volume control to do squat in Sonar, so if I have to take the edge off (or put the edge on) a track (and just can't hammer the velocity enough) I do it in audio, as well as putting in gain curves and whatnot.

I had the same problem using volume controls, etc in Sonar. I find that the Kompakt player does not respond to MIDI events very well, so I switched to Kontakt 2.2 and it all works perfectly. I can create very effective cross-fades via volume and velocity envelopes.

[Debinani]

I had the same problem using volume controls, etc in Sonar. I find that the Kompakt player does not respond to MIDI events very well, so I switched to Kontakt 2.2 and it all works perfectly. I can create very effective cross-fades via volume and velocity envelopes.


Well, it's so close to PLAY-day that I'm not too worried about it. We'll see how PLAY does. :)