Craig Armstrong String Sound

[Ethanfox]

Hello,

I recently bought the Platinum Pro XP orchestra and have been asked to do some string arrangements for a local band. They are after a "Craig Armstrong" type of sound and the turn-around for the job is a quick one.

Being new to the samples, I was wondering if people could share what they use to get that kind of full, smooth and romantic string sound?

So far I have tried using the keyswitch sus patch, swapping between different articulations etc.
and it sounds great! But are there better choices I could make?

Also when it comes to the mics, is it best to go with all 3 or just the front and close ones? I have read different thoughts on this.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

All the best

Ethan

[rimskykorsakov]

Hi Ethan ,

the lyrical Strings and expressivo strings are maybe the samples you are looking for

( i.e.: F 11V Lyr A ; F 11V Lyr B ; F 11V Exp ; etc . ... ) .

When you already have certain melodic lines in mind , then play these lines when checking out the single articulations. So you can hear if this particular articulation can express your musical idea.

It's good to use the F-mics for writing the arrangement.

When you have choosen the articulations , you can build a setup with the F-Mics only , and then
the identical setup with the S-Mics , and if it is necesary also with the close mics.

For the case that you have your library spread upon multiple computers , you are very lucky , cause you can load all Mics.

If you are working on a single computer , just load the F-Mics , do your arrangement , bounce it , and then load the S-Mics , bounce the MIDI-arrangement , and so on ... .

Well that's just one possible approach , I'm sure other users may work in a different way.


Best regards

Gerd

[Ethanfox]

Thanks a lot for that - opened up some new ideas...

I think I did what you suggested - bounced down all the 5 string parts under 1 mic setup to one track - i.e. all the strings from the close mic onto track 1. I then did the same with the other two mic positions to tracks 2 and 3

Thing is, when I play them back together I get a "phasing" sound which makes the end result sound a bit synthy, I guess due to the duplication of the notes in each mixdown?
So is that what you meant I should do or am I doing something silly?

I am new to this whole thing so please bare with me...

Thanks

Ethan

[nickysnd]

Thou shall not bounce unnecessarily!

Keep your tracks separately and the sounds will take care of themselves.

[rimskykorsakov]

Thing is, when I play them back together I get a "phasing" sound which makes the end result sound a bit synthy, I guess due to the duplication of the notes in each mixdown?
So is that what you meant I should do or am I doing something silly?
Ethan

Hi Ethan ,

the rule for using the 3Mics is that there is no rule !

But , generally speaking , you don't need to bounce all Mics for everything all the time.

You‘ve already noticed , that this does not necessarily lead to a well balanced sound.

Especially handling the C-Mics in combination with the F-Mics and S-Mics is not that easy.


Example 1:


The "Background-Orchestra" can be bounced with the F-Mics and the S-Mics.
The Solo Instruments are bounced seperately with the C-Mics, F-Mics and S-Mics.

In an extra Mix-session you can now adjust the levels of the Mics,
for instance F-Mics at 0dB ; S-Mics -3dB ; C-Mics -5dB ;

Additionally you can cut very low frequencies ( of sections or single instruments ) to get rid of the "mud"
at certain very dense passages. But this , again , depends on the particular arrangement .

( And : if the arrangement is not "open" and well done/balanced , no EQ and no possible combination of the different Mics will make it sound better !! )

Using the C-Mics very carefully ( very low Volume ) will help you to give melodic lines more detail within a dense arrangement.


Example 2:

Sometimes when I write for FrenchHorns ( ... and usually I write 4part harmonies in close position / jazzy ... ) I bounce them with F-Mics and S-Mics , and additionally I bounce just the 1st FH with the C-Mics . This way the the chord progressions/movements can be heard better. Otherwise the sound of the FH-Section would be a little bit muddy, especially when the Trombones are added at the bottom.


Example 3:

I recently even worked on an arrangement where I used just the C-Mics in front ,
and added the S-Mics very carefully.


Example 4:

For very slow and romantic sustained passages ( ... like in some Mahler or Wagner compositions ...):

Bounce the String Section only with the F-Mics.

Bounce the Brass section only with the S-Mics.

Bounce the Percussion section with the S-Mics and use the C-Mics very, very carefully .

--


Each arrangement and orchestration requires a different approach how to use the 3Mics to achieve a proper mix.

Hope I could give you some ideas how to handle the mics.


Well , there‘s a lot to discover. Platinum is actually such a flexible and wonderful tool.


Best regards


Gerd

[Ethanfox]

Wow! Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to explain all that! I shall start experimenting!

Many thanks,

Ethan

[Jacob Falling]

Wow, Gerd... you should write a book or something... ;)

I'm copying and pasting your advice for whenever I can afford platinum.

[rimskykorsakov]

Wow, Gerd... you should write a book or something... ;)


LOL:p


But seriously : What really counts is the quality of the composition itself, not the quality of the sample library.

When I look at your signature I notice that you already have very powerful tools at hand to write and record your music.

( For many years I was writing my orchestral stuff with a pencil , a piece of paper and my piano,
and my demos were recorded with an old Roland SoundCanvas (SecondHand 20.-Euros/Dollars ). )

Best regards

Gerd

[Jacob Falling]

( For many years I was writing my orchestral stuff with a pencil , a piece of paper and my piano,
and my demos were recorded with an old Roland SoundCanvas (SecondHand 20.-Euros/Dollars ). )

Yes, yes... you had to sharpen that pencil with your teeth, the piano keys stuck in every key but C Maj, and to get to your Sound Canvas you had to walk uphill both ways in the snow with three gallons of petrol for the generator....

But you're absolutely right... I've only been working with these instruments a few months now. I can definitely see the use of Gold and Platinum, but I'm glad I started with Silver and am working my way up. There's a bit of a learning curve to working with an orchestra, I've discovered... :rolleyes: Still, Silver can sound pretty good with some work, and I think I'll appreciate the improvements of Gold even more when I move up....

And anyway, I don't have to worry about graphite stains on my teeth.

[rimskykorsakov]

Yes, yes... you had to sharpen that pencil with your teeth, the piano keys stuck in every key but C Maj, and to get to your Sound Canvas you had to walk uphill both ways in the snow with three gallons of petrol for the generator....

:p


Still, Silver can sound pretty good with some work, and I think I'll appreciate the improvements of Gold even more when I move up....


Hi Jacob ,

Silver is a great tool for studying orchestral arrangement and get into the world of creating orchestral MIDI -mockups. Gold , because of its F-Mics , sounds very very good and GoldXP gives you all the articulations that PlatinumXP has. PlatinumXP is necessary when you need more options for creating certain orchestral sounds "out of the box" . So you are absolutely right when you go step by step (... and last but not least it's a question of money).

Cheers

Gerd

[hamlets_shrink]

What is a Craig Armstrong string sound ? is there a movie where it's demonstrated ?