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exstreme
06-18-2005, 07:33 AM
i have 3 demo's :)

Forever Goodby(Original Mix)7:20

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=345027&songID=2541347

This version is more the dramatic(emotional) version of Forever Goodby,i have used the Irish low whistle from rare instruments for the main theme and the cathedral strings orchestra from Spectrasonics atmosphere for main and background strings
the idee of this song,is a scene from a funeral,where the people stands around the grave,to say the last goodby's :(

-Forever Goodby(East West Mix)7:58

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=345027&songID=2547999

this version,have i mixed with only east west instruments for the contest
created with:
-East west Symphonic orchestra silver=Solo violin,18 violins sords,Solo cello,10 cello's,Grand piano,Solo trumpet,28 Gongs,Organ flutes,TMP hits
-East west Storm drum
-East west Rare instruments 1=Irish low whistle,m.eastern fiddle,ulian pipes,Duduk
-East west Voices of the Apocalypse=demons men choir,Angels woman choir

i have used two themes in this version:
1-the official theme from the original Forever Goodby(starts by 3:00 min)
2-the second theme starts by 1:00 and by 6:40
this demo(mix) was more to show what i can do with East West instruments :-)

-The end of all things 2:40

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=345027&songID=2541462

created with:
-East west Symphonic orchestra silver
the used instruments are:
-Solo Cello
-Solo Violin
-Sensitive Grand Piano

this song has a country taste :)

i am verry intersted in you opinion :rolleyes:

ToddK
06-18-2005, 10:37 AM
Just listened to Goodbye Forever.

Not to be a smartass or anything, but it seems to go on Forever. :)

This could possibly work when with picture, but by itself, it is a
dynamic, and emotional flatline.

7 minutes with no dynamic change, and the notes keep sustaining and never
let up, through the entire thing.

I started to get worn down by it after only a couple of minutes. There is nothing
interesting in the melody. In fact, i cant even say there is a melody at all.
I cant remember one, single phrase. It just sounds like you hit random
notes on the controller for 7 minutes.

Just my opinion though. :)

My advice would be, use some CC's once in a while. Let the volume
of at least one instrument go up or down at some point.
Let some notes stop sustaining at least once or twice.
Try to incorporate some sort of phrase that could be remebered.
The piece sort of sounds like a 7 minute run-on sentence.
It needs at least a little punctuation somewhere. For instance,
Woodwind players and Choir singers have to take a breath
once in a while. Unless you're writing for the Circular Breathing Ochestra". :)

I'll listen to the other pieces.

TK

exstreme
06-18-2005, 12:19 PM
thank you for your opinion ToddK!!!

it is always helpfull,when you get good advice and i wil keep this in my mind:)
,and offcourse choirs need a breath:D

because it is not easy to make music,but it's great to do :D

but i am learning everry day,i am just a newbie :o

svk

ToddK
06-18-2005, 03:16 PM
Wanted to add, sorry if that was a bit of a rough critique, being
you are just starting out.

I was trying to be as constructive, yet honest as possible. :)

I think doing what you're doing, hanging out here, and reading, listening
to all the knowledgable and talented people here, will get you going really
well.
I've learned a ton here in a very short time. So just keep posting tunes,
and you'll get plenty of support and guidance here.

Plus its just a TON of FUN eh?!?! :)

TK

exstreme
06-18-2005, 03:33 PM
Wanted to add, sorry if that was a bit of a rough critique, being
you are just starting out.
TK

it's oké i can handle rough critique :)

if anyone say's it was beauty full,than was it boring!!! :D

and you give me the right opinion,that is the reason why i posted it here,because there are here a lot of proffessionals and amateurs and hobby newbie's like me :)

svk

ToddK
06-18-2005, 03:38 PM
Well, you absolutely have the best attitude!! And i expect you'll learn
alot very quickly as a result..:)

I will surely enjoy observing your progress!.. :cool:

TK

exstreme
06-22-2005, 03:53 AM
ALMOST 150 VIEWS AND ONLY ONE RESPONS IS IT THAT BAD!!!! :confused:

i have only one that that give me a serieus opinion,it is not that i want to push,but i am a little bit disapointed :(

oké the next songs that i wil be post here wil be match shorter :D

SVK

sebaa241
06-22-2005, 06:04 AM
I once was told that my own music in a particular cue was "too much padding - got to move on". Similar problems here.

Listened to Goodbye forever:
I think (and just my opinion ofcourse) that your music are having some problems keeping the listeners attention for the whole running time of the cue:
-The human brain has trouble comprehensing long phrases if the tempo is too slow; it ends up as a series of notes with no relation to another.
-In my opinion it should build to some sort of climax or something; right now it stays at the same dynamics for the entire cue. Listen to "Adagio for Strings" by Barber and listen to how changes in dynamics are made there.


Keep composing and have fun.

/Sebastian

exstreme
06-22-2005, 07:48 AM
thanks for your opinion sebaa241

i agree with you,for the first two songs,some of the ceu's are to long :)

but i was thinking it was a nice theme :rolleyes:

my favourite is The end of all things,that is in my opinion not a boring song,it takes 2:40 of a life time

building a climax is a verry good idee and i wil keep that in my mind :-)

why most thinks always be fast,if i wanna have thinks be fast than i gonna make techno and hardhouse,i do some boem!!!,boem in it and than i have a nummer one hit,that is almost the only way to score a hit this day's,and i don't wanna be one of them :D

Neilfactory
06-22-2005, 12:02 PM
Exstreme>
I like your atmosphere.

Nice jobs.

Neil.

exstreme
06-22-2005, 12:14 PM
Exstreme>
I like your atmosphere.

Nice jobs.

Neil.

THANK YOU,NEIL!!! ;)

svk

Raul_
06-25-2005, 04:09 PM
Hi Exstreme,

well done ! Your music sounds beautiful and is very releasing.

exstreme
06-25-2005, 04:16 PM
Hi Exstreme,

well done ! Your music sounds beautiful and is very releasing.

THANKS Raul,and i am happy to read that you like my music :)

svk

Pi_314
06-25-2005, 06:49 PM
I think you need a leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!
Something up tempo
Perhaps another four tracks with some hop skipity bop!

Mills2k
06-25-2005, 10:07 PM
Forever Goodbye (Eastwest)

The voices in the beginning irritate me, and I don't see why not just cover them with the strings; I don't think they add anything. If that solo wind instrument is the irish low whistle... is there any way to tone down the pitch bends? Like, they're very nice in moderation, but doing it every note is excessive. The other thing is it goes on for a long while very statically, and fails to really hold my attention the whole way through. As background music, that's fine, but if you want people actively listening to it, having it stay very much the same throughout makes it hard to keep focused. The piano could be balanced a little bit lighter... I feel like it's more to reinforce as opposed to be the primary focus, but I could be wrong. Overall, it's nice ambience, but not much of a sit-down-and-listen or go-to-the-symphony sort of piece. My biggest gripe, if I could ask you to change one thing and you would do it, is the voices... get rid of 'em ;).

Forever Goodbye (Original)

Just within the first :30 seconds I can tell it's a better mix. The strings sound tragically synthy, but oh well. The whistle sounds much nicer. And it doesn't have those annoying voices ;). I like the addition of the harp as well. Anyways, I think in general it's just a better track. It does suffer from the same heel-dragging stasis as the other mix though. But, since it's more pleasant to listen to...

The End of All Things

I think you should avoid doubling the violin with the piano... it's a really pretty line, and I think doubling it takes away from it actually. Cheapens it almost. The two violins actually take away from it as well. I think just the violin, cello, and piano would make a very nice trio. Sound production-wise, I think the violin needs to have a more mellow feel to it, like the piano. The cello, is also a little soft, even when it's dueting with the piano in the beginning, but the violin is instantly louder. I'm not sure how many different patches or if you're using a keyswitch for the violin, but the crescendo and added vibrato on every note makes it lose continuity as a line. Thing song deserves something simple, almost vibrato-less, a fleeting sound. At least that's what I hear... it's your piece, not mine ;).

Anyways, good stuff. The End of the All Things is by far the best of the three, but I expect to hear more :D .

exstreme
06-26-2005, 04:40 AM
I think you need a leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!
Something up tempo
Perhaps another four tracks with some hop skipity bop!

that is what i hear a lot too slow,maby the tracks are to long and i can agree with this,but that is slow thats fit better with the number,but i will keep this in my mind ;)

thanks for your opinion Pi_314

svk

exstreme
06-26-2005, 05:05 AM
thank you Mills2k for your opinion

music making is not easy because,there is no one,the the same with his opinion,some one like the part of music and the other says it's bad ore buatyfull :D

and about the key switching part,just discoverd it,so i have used in this songs,by the low whisle and other instruments

by the end of al things i have used only three patches

grand piano
cello
violin

with a little northen hall reverb an i have not used key switching in this song :)

i think this is my best classical song in my carreer :rolleyes:

svk

lovelysilence
06-26-2005, 02:04 PM
I go with ToddK. Your ideas are ok, your harmony and arranging is right in nearly most places, your choice of sounds is truly excellent, the mix is almost right, cause i find some tracks to loud, like the choirs, but the problem is you lack every sense of suspense and dynamics. A flatline indeed or in need of velocity sensitive keyboard. Quite strange for someone called exstreme :)

exstreme
06-26-2005, 03:52 PM
I go with ToddK. Your ideas are ok, your harmony and arranging is right in nearly most places, your choice of sounds is truly excellent, the mix is almost right, cause i find some tracks to loud, like the choirs, but the problem is you lack every sense of suspense and dynamics. A flatline indeed or in need of velocity sensitive keyboard. Quite strange for someone called exstreme :)

thanks for the opinion lovelysilence
and my nick name has nothing to do with my style of music :)

svk

MakeANote
06-26-2005, 07:13 PM
The end of all things

This was a fairly drab bit of listening. It seems that, in the opening 1 and a half minutes you essentially have 2 parts going and three instruments playing them - violin doubles treble in piano, cello doubles bass in piano.

The harmony is confined mostly to a repetitive pattern of subdominant - dominant - subdominant (IV-V-IV) or mediant - subd - med (iii-IV-iii), only sounding the tonic (chord I) on the first notes and right at the very end. It's full of consecutive 5ths (not a bad thing unless you're wanting to obey conventional Western Harmony practises) which makes the sound very colourless (tonally bland).

To illustrate this, here is the bass movement for the entire song:
I ii iii IV V IV V IV V IV V IV iii IV V IV iii IV iii IV iii IV V IV V IV V IV V IV V IV iii IV V IV V IV V IV V IV V IV iii ii I

Your cello part is rendered a dull, uninteresting drone. The melody is virtually a step based pattern which doesn't seem to lead anywhere, just wanders...and then it just ends. Granted the 'double-stopping' creates a little more interest (as well as a third voice).

Now, all that said, it is referring to 'The end of all things' and it could be that you were after this type of sound. However, it doesn't make for easy / interesting listening and it's quite difficult to remain focused without the brain drifting off elsewhere.

While my training is from a classical perspective, I am certainly not averse to more contemporary styles. There is more to good music than melody or harmony. I believe the overall structure of a work and the elements contained within constitute the success or failure of a song to the listener.

Rethink the roles of the instruments, if necessary. 'Why did I use a cello?' 'Why did I use a piano?' 'Why did I double the violin line with the piano?' See what happens if you drop the piano melody line out and just continue with the violin, playing simple chords instead on the keyboard. 'What other chords could I use?' Write out your melody line and look at it. What shape does it make? Does it go anywhere or just hover around a central tone. Have a look at the melody lines of music in the style that you are wanting to emulate. What does the harmony do?

As ToddK said, to take criticism is of powerful benefit to you. You aren't what you write, and the ability to separate yourself from your work to improve what you do is commendable. I'm sorry, I haven't listened to the other songs (too big a download on my humble dial-up plan).

Ian

exstreme
06-27-2005, 10:36 AM
first of all,thank you verry verry match for your opinion MakeANote :D

second its for me a hobby and not a full time time job'!!

and third,i making music because i like it to do and it is my style of music making

i can say honest,i can't read a little bit notes,the rest is all about inpiration and hearing to the tones and i do not shame me,for it,because there are no rules for making music and i am always interested in other people opinions and tips and how can i do it better,but in the way you give me the opinion,i can better stop with making music!! :-(

i use an instrument,because i like the instrument and sometimes i had to try ten different instrument before ithink this sounds good and i like the instruments in the end of all things
the end of all things tittle match perfectly with this song'in my opinion,you can it see as an ending theme from something :-)

and offcourse thing could better in the song,but than had i to learn a classical study like you,but i don't like to classical,my style is more new-age and modern soundtrack ;)

i am still proud on it ,how bad this song may be :D

svk

jralbert
06-27-2005, 03:21 PM
Hi exstreme,
I'm also a a bit of a newbie in the composition field, and just starting to make the transition from hobbyist to pro; so I sympathize somewhat with your position.

However, I think it's important that you take graciously the advice that's been given you here. MakeANote didn't attack you, or your music; he made some excellent assertions and suggestions regarding its improvement. What I think MakeANote meant in saying that "You aren't what you write" is that you can and will grow beyond the pieces you've written, so that each new work is the synthesis of every lesson you've learned since you wrote the first one.

Just by posting to this forum you're in the enviable position of getting advice directly from talented professionals in the field - these guys are the best mentors we newbies could hope for. So when you're offered a complex technical critique of your work, take the time to consider it carefully, and decide what parts apply to your work in a way you can use.

For the record, your stuff sounds a lot like what I wrote when I'd just started - and that wasn't so long ago. I feel like I've come a long way since then; I'm sure the same will happen to you.

Best of luck!

-Jeff

lovelysilence
06-27-2005, 04:53 PM
MakeAnote refers by saying 'you aren't what you write' to the process of disidentifying with your current situation, so you create room for improvement. All too often, people become petrified because someone says something critical about their work and take it all very personally. This impedes personal growth since you identify with what you create and the lack of quality the creation has at that moment.
MakeAnote certainly didn't mean to offend you by this, from where i see it and i do understand english better than exstreme, so take my word for it. :)

exstreme
06-27-2005, 04:54 PM
thanks jralbert

i totaly agree with you,offcourse you can learn a lot from here and i am thankfull for that :)
it was only the way he gives me his opinion.

but the song was not that bad in my opinion :rolleyes:

svk

MakeANote
06-28-2005, 02:51 AM
Dear Exstreme,

Firstly, I want to make it clear (as I'm thankful that others have) that no personal criticism or attack of you was intended - but if you read it that way...sorry. LovelySilence is quite accurate in his reading of my statement "You aren't what you write". By this I meant (to repeat), your value as a person is not tied up in what you can (or can't) create. My criticism of your work was, in part, to get you to look objectively at your music - because I didn't write it, is is easy for me to do this. An important skill for the musician is, I believe, that you learn to look at what you write / create with the mindset that, just maybe, you could do even better next time.

That said, I won't do backflips to say something is great if I don't believe it is, but I will definitely give credit where it is due - then again, my opinion is merely that, mine. Value what you like of it - take what good there is in it and discard the rest.

AND KEEP WRITING MUSIC! Listen, listen, listen to as much music as you can - and listen objectively - with the purpose of gleaning what you hear and what you can use.

Again, my apologies for the misunderstandings.
Ian

ChrisE
06-28-2005, 04:12 AM
It can be hard to take criticism, and we all receive it from time to time. I felt as if the piece (The end of all things) has potential but needs alot of reworking.

As MakeANote said the cello seems to be a drone more than a line. You could rework this cello line keeping harmony the same if you wished. Make a melody around what you already have.

I think you need to change the expression more in the piece. It seems very flat mostly because the music doesnt change volume.

Also i might reconsider using the Solo Violin and Solo Cello. On Gold there are a lack of articulations for these instuments, so I'm guessing the same can be said for Silver. The lines that you have used for the instruments dont work so well with solo instruments. A solo cello line would normally have the melody. Try using the Cello and Violin sections and playing around with the different articulations.

However saying all that, I do like the piece :) And with only a little work it could be sounding better.

exstreme
06-28-2005, 10:55 AM
That said, I won't do backflips to say something is great if I don't believe it is, but I will definitely give credit where it is due - then again, my opinion is merely that, mine. Value what you like of it - take what good there is in it and discard the rest.


i totaly agree with you because i respect your opinion,i understand now what you mean't,and what you want to learn me,thanks for that!! :)

if something is not great in your opinion,than is it your right to say that ;)
but i was so proud on that song and than was your opinion a little bit hard,but i was totaly wrong what you was trying to explane to me,but i understand you now,i am sorry for my incorrect response and i wil rework it,because i respect you and your opininon:o

i wil defently rework the end of al things,after al the good advice i have get from the forum members thanks for that too!! i hope i wil recive gold this week:-)

svk

exstreme
06-28-2005, 11:19 AM
thanks for the opinion and your advice ChrisE

it is hard to make a song good and when i can say it is finished,when go i show my song to the world,thats the harderst part of music making for me :)

i am not so good yet with keyswitching,articulations,expression,i am still learning that but i wil absolutly rework the end of all things with your and the others advice in my mind :)

svk