Losing Interest.

[Maverick]

When I write something I become bored with it around the 3rd and 4th day. I'm not sure if it's the repetitive listening or the fact that it's written by me. However, it gets to the point when I actually can't stand hearing my music anymore. It's not just with writing orchestral music aswell, it seems any form of music that I write becomes annoyingly bland after the first couple of days of writing it. I've written so many songs that are unfinished simply because I went off them.

Does anybody else have this problem?

- Rick.

[Andrew Sigler]

I suggest you try a different approach to your writing, such as trying your hand at Sonata form or something like that. There's no harm in occasionally abandoning a piece, but if it's happening every time, then something is wrong. You may need a project (or just a little more discipline...no offense!) to provide the incentive you need to finish your projects...

-andy

[V o n h ö g e n]

When I write something I become bored with it around the 3rd and 4th day.


You could try to speed up your workflow. :)

Jerome

[Maverick]

You could try to speed up your workflow. :)

Jerome

lol, well actually that's what I have done. I normally write the majority of a new piece in about 3 - 6 hours. The next couple of days is changing it around and filling it in. However, it always seems to be in the mixing process when I become bored or dissatisfied with the thing and end up either leaving it unfinished or just mix it down the way it is and forget about it.

I find that I start a lot of pieces but sometimes I can't seem to take it anywhere good, so I close it and move on to a new piece. Every so often I'll write something that sticks and I like for a bit longer than other pieces. As Andy said it's probably my own fault for not having the discipline to carry on with it whether i'm bored of it or not.

[Crossingsound]

Well if you lose dissatifaction with a peice, it could mean that it needs improvement overall rather then just filling it in, and you are getting to a point in your talent where you are getting better and better and your ear is getting good and just desired more, or perhaps as some have suggested, just really need to learn to plow through and finish an idea from start to finish even if you get bored halfway through, specially if at first the idea and sound really captured you. This is one of the hardest obstacles to overcome as a pro, needing to finish stuff in timeframes and plow through.

Are you writing in a style and sound that most suits your taste? maybe its time to experiement and expand your pallette and sound pallette to incorporate other stuff to keep things from going stale? I know from hearing your postings, that your talent is getting better and better and your music has improved so much from a year ago or so, its really good stuff.

Sometimes its good to take a break from music if possible, like even a week or so off, not working on anything to recharge the creative pallette, watch lots of movies and stuff.

[fongi]

Hi Mav ! my old buddy from Hartlepool right? I think everybody who is creative goes down that road, so I wouldn´t worry to much about it. My brother-in-law does some wonderful sculpture but his studio is full of unfinished work, I think that´s normal. One member said try Sonata form !?!? what does that mean? doesn´t help you one bit, absolute nonsense.

You should keep everything you do, sometimes I write a piece, I have the A part but not the B part or a bridge section, so I go through some old stuff and quite often bingo I find what I want and after a few adjustments it´s a complete piece!
It sounds like you´ve got an accute writers block? someone said take a break and it´s probably the best advice.
I find silence helps me, no kidding I extra keep that radio of when I´m driving to nuture musical ideas of my own in my head, instead of being fed ideas from other music.

Last but not least do not be so critical of yourself, don´t sit there frustrated because you can´t write the mega hit of all time, quite often you can write something you deem to be average or even crap and everyone says "hey man that´s great" ! Look how many not so special pieces here get 5 gold stars!! Some of the music you have posted here has been really cool, stay with it ! Chris :D

[Counterpoint]

Hi Rick,

I agree with what the others have said. Andy and Eric made lots of good points, so I'll try not to just repeat them.

One more thought for you, try writing shorter tunes? I'm not sure what the average length is that you're aiming for in a track (I would guess 3-5 minutes?). Eric is probably spot on that maybe the problem is stemming from your ears expecting more and more.

Try writing some 1-2 minute long tunes. This will let you spend your time focusing on the ideas that you like without having to go overboard or drag things out to the point of boredom.

Best of luck!

- Matt

[ewkarl7777]

Really old joke:

Every day at lunch break, guy opens his lunch-pail, looks inside, makes a face and
says "Aww man, not ham sandwiches again?!"

After this has gone on quite a few days, one of his co-workers says to him, "Hey, it's none of
my business, but if you're tired of ham sandwiches, why don't you ask your wife to make
something else?"

Guy says, "Oh, I make my own lunch."

[Nathan Allen Pinard]

I'm serious when I say this:

listen to your mixes when you are piss drunk, you will think they are amazing..

[nikolas]

I won't pretend to know or be the ultimate pro here.

That said:

Rick, what is your motivation when writing? I guess (don't know, that's why I guess), it's not because someone is paying you, is it? If it is I apologize dearly for that!

But I would never expect a pro, to leave unfinished tracks, because he got tired or them really.

So what I suggest:

Bin them from your head and your computer. Put them to DVDs, or back them up and forget about them. When the time comes and you are busy, you'll see what great "preplay" you have done already.

Do you have any idea, how many tunes, I have saved in my head, in drafts, in scores, in Cubase projects etc? A LOT! When I run out of ideas, I turn to my old unfinished ones!

It's only natural, it's perfect! Apart from that vacation is also need, like Eric said, and what Matt (counterpoint also said).

Writting in bigger forms, would help in terms of practice, and by no means it is nonsense! Practicing, or being forced to write a 20 minute piece, will make one create a 5 minutes one, look like a piece of cake!

Trying new stuff always works as well. Being excited with your own music is great! New ideas, new instruments, new computer, new girlfriend (whoops!) It all works!

[CosmicD]

for me when I come up with a melody, there's some kind of pride in it and I know that that particulare memory is capturing a feeling I have at the moment and that this feeling is allowed to survive as an entire piece

I also sometimes have different feelings the next day about something I wrote the day befor but I transform the melody to fit in with the last piece that I've created so it can become an entire piece...

It also takes a long time untill I actually start programming the piece in cubase: i first have it in my head , think that i'v e heard it on the radio and imagine what the mix and the instruments will sound like and what feeling it will be having...

It's not 100% finished in my head, but always at least 80% befor I start creating it...

[isle3]

[QUOTE=Maverick]lol, well actually that's what I have done. I normally write the majority of a new piece in about 3 - 6 hours. The next couple of days is changing it around and filling it in. However, it always seems to be in the mixing process when I become bored or dissatisfied with the thing and end up either leaving it unfinished or just mix it down the way it is and forget about it.QUOTE]

I thought it was just me,but I agree,after I spend a few hours editing here and there,I can't stand that song anymore,but because I put so much time into it,I just mix it the best I can and save it...I think Counterpoint makes a "goodpoint",maybe making short cues,straight to the point....I'm gonna try that.
Roy

[Maverick]

A lot of great advice posted here. However, I don't think it is to do with needing to write in new styles. Maybe one day I'll come across that problem. But I find my problem is more to do with discipline and losing the initial excitement I had for a piece. So i try to capture the same excitement by starting a new piece. I have this problem with writing rock also, I have about 15 rock and acoustic songs on my computer that are unfinished. Some of them are completely recorded and just need mixing, I just lost interest in them and never finished them. I find it hard to see the point in finishing something if I'm no longer interested. As Nikolas said, if I was being paid for writing obviously I would follow through and finish pieces. But the majority of what I do is for my own pleasure, so that's probably why I have so much unfinished work.

As for writing shorter tracks. This is something I have began doing. When I started writing orchestral pieces just the other year I tended to write songs at 3 - 5 minutes. Now almost everything I write is 1:30 to 2:00. Not that I set out to write pieces that short, I find it more fun to write shorter pieces. Keeps my interest in them a bit longer.

In the past I've spent time writing things on piano, building the idea up before I decide to record. However, with this I get a similar problem. I notice if I've worked on an idea for a couple of weeks by the time I begin recording it I discover I'm sick of it. Just the other day I tried laying something down that I wrote about 6 months ago and have played around with for a while. When I was working on the the first minute of it I noticed how sick of it I was, so I just left it. On reading all your advice I think I'll go back to it and give it a another shot.

I find the best way to write so that I don't go off something is switch the keyboard on, see if i can come up with something that interests me then get to work on it right away. So within the first couple of hours I have the general idea sorted and the next couple of days I can work on it and make it work. In the long run this is probably a bad way to write because I probably rush things. Not leaving enough time to play around with different ideas.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. Some interesting ideas and points of view. I'm sure i'll find some of them helpful when I'm working on new tracks. Cheers,

- Rick.

[Counterpoint]

Just had another thought, because of several comments that mentioned getting bored with a piece once you get to the mixing stage:

I have this problem with writing rock also, I have about 15 rock and acoustic songs on my computer that are unfinished. Some of them are completely recorded and just need mixing, I just lost interest in them and never finished them. I find it hard to see the point in finishing something if I'm no longer interested.

Could it be that this part of the production is less interesting to you? Maybe you should put some feelers out and see if there are some mixing engineers out there who'd be interested in collaboration?

If you can find someone you like working with (who doesn't want to write but wants to mix) then this could free you up to just focus on getting your ideas down, letting someone else worry about the finished sound.

Most of the best music out there is the result of collaboration, not just one guy doing everything. A second pair of ears working on your tunes can be a great thing and lets you focus on the parts that you're interested in. :)

Cheers,

- Matt

[cooliang]

i offer you some ways

1.kill urself(which i dont recommand)
2.find mental doctor. (it's always help
3.get away from writing music
4.write in 1 day, and start another new music song tomorrow, and start a new one next day.
so u will have 5 or 6 unfinished music. and u come back to the first one next monday. and u will end up finished 6 songs in a month.

[Maverick]

Just had another thought, because of several comments that mentioned getting bored with a piece once you get to the mixing stage:



Could it be that this part of the production is less interesting to you? Maybe you should put some feelers out and see if there are some mixing engineers out there who'd be interested in collaboration?

If you can find someone you like working with (who doesn't want to write but wants to mix) then this could free you up to just focus on getting your ideas down, letting someone else worry about the finished sound.

Most of the best music out there is the result of collaboration, not just one guy doing everything. A second pair of ears working on your tunes can be a great thing and lets you focus on the parts that you're interested in. :)

Cheers,

- Matt

I hate mixing, lol. But I don't think anyone else could get what I'm looking for. My brother used to mix for me until he got lazy, or annoyed because I pretty much always disagreed with the mixing that he did. So as much as I dislike mixing, I have to do it to get the results that I want. However, you're right in pointing that out. It's not the writing/recording that puts me off it's the mixing because it's so damn tedious.

- Rick.

[Maverick]

I'm serious when I say this:

listen to your mixes when you are piss drunk, you will think they are amazing..

LOL, yeah. I've noticed that in the past. Sometimes when you're really tired aswell.

- Rick.

[stmiller]

I have a lot of things I became bored with and moved on. Incomplete compositions. I thought this was normal? :( Just make sure to keep everything. Don't throw anything away- you never know when you might need something, even 15 seconds, or some looping material.

[Kaatza_Music]

When I get bored with something, I usually set it aside, maybe take a break and then try something different. Sometimes, I will come back to these pieces later and rework them and with a fresh approach it works. Some just get discarded.

The other thing is I think the difference between creativity--that stuff that really gets your juices flowing when you could work 12 hours straight and still not want to stop--and the craft of composing--there is a deadline, I have to write something today, I don't feel inspired, but I have to produce something. Anything!

The other thing I do is try and vary the setting. Go play an acoustic piano outside of your studio or take a guitar down to the beach. Go jam with some friends and have some fun! Go for a long drive by yourself and just let your mind go where it wants to.

And sometimes you just need to rest those ears. A lot of times I will play something a week later that I thought really sucked before and then think it's not so bad after all. :D

May the Muse bless you with melodic and harmonic bliss!

[lostrain]

This is a great topic actually, I have been composing for nearly 25 years, and I think there is a point where the 'freshness' of what we compose get's stale. Staleness can happen 5 minutes after starting a new song, why is this you ask? Mainly because this is very difficult work, don't kid yourself, it were easy, everyone would be doing it. Creating new exciting music is one of the most difficult things anyone can try to do.

SO what do you do about starting a project and 5 minutes later getting sick to death of it? Well for starters, get over it being the 'Next big hit' or waiting for Zimmer to call you....

Music has to be about personal satisfaction, if others like it, cool, if not, well atleast you enjoy it. I think a lot of composers stress themselves out that they aren't coming up with new ideas, or that you feel like you are composing the same idea over and over and get 'writers block'.... WELL, it happens!

So what I do is, write 3-4 song ideas, and then pick the one that feels it has the most character. And just focus on that one. What about that one song, melody, or cue stood out? Well it's a discovery process, one only you can really come to a conclusion regarding.

OR

Put the music down for a day or two, clear your mind, think about what it is you really want to convey in your music, I think if you can picture what it is you are hoping to accomplish is a much better approach then plopping notes down 'hoping' that it'll just happen to come together. You really need to have to have an idea of what you want---SO I have a white board and I write my ideas down there, do I want more tension, do I want more whatever it is that the piece demands....

Moral of my story is: Think before you create. Create after you think doesn't work... I have tried many, many times.... and it always fails.

[barlowjam]

Maverick:

I thought I might share a couple of things with you that might be helpful.

I have an old friend who is (like me) mostly a Jazz player but we both have a great love of classical music and of composition in general.

I remember years back when he did his first "tape" of his own stuff. He sent me his finished product and asked me to listen to it and tell him what I thought. I always liked his ideas and thought he wrote genuinely great stuff (really original and creative). Even right now (some 12 years later), most of what I am writing is what would probably be described as Jazz/World music - and it was this very tape that planted the seed in me that these two genres could be combined in interesting ways - so obviously I have great respect for his talent.

So I listened to it (over and over) and I really LOVED it. So when I finally called him to give him my critique I gave him my input. He asked me which tune I liked the best and I told him my choice. Well, he just laughed. He had sent his tape to another musician (a trumpet player he knew and respected) and that guy had given him the same answer in terms of which tune was his favorite. When he laughed, I asked him why he thought it was funny and he explained that the tune we had both chosen as our favorite was one that he only put on the tape because there wasn't enough material and he needed more! In his own estimation it was just FILLER!

So I guess the point I am making is the most talented guys I know tend to be the most self-critical. So don't judge what you are doing while you are doing it. Just push yourself to finish - even if you have to get away from it for a while and come back (which happens to me a lot).

Another example is that I was working on a tune (that I think I am going to enter in some song-writing competitions) right before I started working on my entry for the May/June EW contest. When I put it on the shelf to work on the contest I thought – man, this isn’t any good. And I was happy to change my focus for a while – and didn’t intend to go back to it. Well, I just loaded it up again, after not having listened to it for three weeks and it REALLY sounds good! I was stunned at my own reaction!!

So don’t judge yourself – chances are you’re not really qualified to do so effectively!!! (if you get where I’m coming from)

(BTW I’ll expect to see you on this forum in the near future discussing your latest effort)

[Sonic Ether]

Oh man, I've had this problem for almost a year... It's horrible, but I think it's finnaly starting to let up (knock on wood). I took a 3 week break (that was very hard to do) and it helped me SO much. I think that's what got me out of my huge writer's block.

I think that my best works so far have been the ones that I just "pumped" out. It's a very hard thing to do, and I tend to over-listen to my songs (that's very dangerous because it's hard to think of a melody after the part you have completed because in your mind it keeps looping). Even though they weren't the best technically, I think that compisitionally they were superb. Of course after I take a few days away from hearing the song I'm working on I can go back and fix all of the techincal errors. I think that learning how to pump out songs is vital if you want to make it as a successful composer/musician.

Starting projects really helps me too. I just started one with a friend of mine, we're working on a collaborative mod for a video game that will replace the music with our own specialized music (to fit every area of the game). Since we lauched that, I've been going head strong for a while, because I know that someone else is counting on me to finish my part. I'm infamous for letting ideas fall apart because I procrastinate and get bored/interested in something else. I think it's just a cycle that we all go through. But luckily, from what I've observed, each time the cycle repeats the writer's block phaze gets shorter and shorter.

[crackerjack]

This is a great topic started. I agree with most everyone. I am too impantient to take breaks, but I do suffer greatly in the "getting bored easily" department.

I'm working on my fourth "alternative rock" album, but also doing some scoring.... now that I've got some good samples.

I usually come up with one idea a day, even when I have deadlines pending. I'm probably averaging sixteen completed works/songs a year. Me and my partner in music are extremely critical and don't always see eye to eye with ideas. But having someone there to give an opinion on "A versus B , or A versus B versus C" is definetly helpful.

It really depends what you're doing though..

The film/video scoring comes more naturally to me. as most the time, no lyrics/vox are involved. It's all melody and style.

When you add vocals, man...... that's a whole different beast.

Getting back to the topic, It's all a battle of the mind really. it is important to distract yourself, I think.... Take the garbage out, do some dishes, mow the lawn....but when that good idea hits you during the process......make sure you log it somehow (I've been thinking about buying one of those tiny digital recorders you see at the drugstores)..

Anyways, I find this thread veryt theraputic, we all go thru this. I'm interested in all thoughts.

AV

[barlowjam]

Getting back to the topic, It's all a battle of the mind really. it is important to distract yourself, I think.... Take the garbage out, do some dishes, mow the lawn....
AV

Would you cut it out - you're gonna give my wife ideas. :D

[ewkarl7777]

"So don’t judge yourself – chances are you’re not really qualified to do so effectively!!! "

So let me get this straight. My music doesn't really suck, it's just that I am such a
terrible musician/composer that I'm unqualified to judge it?

Somehow, that doesn't make me feel any better. ;)

[barlowjam]

"So don’t judge yourself – chances are you’re not really qualified to do so effectively!!! "

So let me get this straight. My music doesn't really suck, it's just that I am such a
terrible musician/composer that I'm unqualified to judge it?

Somehow, that doesn't make me feel any better. ;)

No - just meant that while a guy is working so hard and so close to a project, it can be difficult to be really objective. It's my experience that good players/writers will often be too hard on themselves. That's what I meant by not "qualified" - not a good choice of words I guess for what I was trying to convey.

(and I really was trying to cheer you up! :) )

[Maverick]

Maverick:

I thought I might share a couple of things with you that might be helpful.

I have an old friend who is (like me) mostly a Jazz player but we both have a great love of classical music and of composition in general.

I remember years back when he did his first "tape" of his own stuff. He sent me his finished product and asked me to listen to it and tell him what I thought. I always liked his ideas and thought he wrote genuinely great stuff (really original and creative). Even right now (some 12 years later), most of what I am writing is what would probably be described as Jazz/World music - and it was this very tape that planted the seed in me that these two genres could be combined in interesting ways - so obviously I have great respect for his talent.

So I listened to it (over and over) and I really LOVED it. So when I finally called him to give him my critique I gave him my input. He asked me which tune I liked the best and I told him my choice. Well, he just laughed. He had sent his tape to another musician (a trumpet player he knew and respected) and that guy had given him the same answer in terms of which tune was his favorite. When he laughed, I asked him why he thought it was funny and he explained that the tune we had both chosen as our favorite was one that he only put on the tape because there wasn't enough material and he needed more! In his own estimation it was just FILLER!

So I guess the point I am making is the most talented guys I know tend to be the most self-critical. So don't judge what you are doing while you are doing it. Just push yourself to finish - even if you have to get away from it for a while and come back (which happens to me a lot).

Another example is that I was working on a tune (that I think I am going to enter in some song-writing competitions) right before I started working on my entry for the May/June EW contest. When I put it on the shelf to work on the contest I thought – man, this isn’t any good. And I was happy to change my focus for a while – and didn’t intend to go back to it. Well, I just loaded it up again, after not having listened to it for three weeks and it REALLY sounds good! I was stunned at my own reaction!!

So don’t judge yourself – chances are you’re not really qualified to do so effectively!!! (if you get where I’m coming from)

(BTW I’ll expect to see you on this forum in the near future discussing your latest effort)

Great story...

I've encountered things like that in the past. The things I dislike that i've done sometimes seem to be the things that stand out to other people. Strange how things work out like that.

- Rick.

[Maverick]

This is a great topic started. I agree with most everyone. I am too impantient to take breaks, but I do suffer greatly in the "getting bored easily" department.

I'm working on my fourth "alternative rock" album, but also doing some scoring.... now that I've got some good samples.

I usually come up with one idea a day, even when I have deadlines pending. I'm probably averaging sixteen completed works/songs a year. Me and my partner in music are extremely critical and don't always see eye to eye with ideas. But having someone there to give an opinion on "A versus B , or A versus B versus C" is definetly helpful.

It really depends what you're doing though..

The film/video scoring comes more naturally to me. as most the time, no lyrics/vox are involved. It's all melody and style.

When you add vocals, man...... that's a whole different beast.

Getting back to the topic, It's all a battle of the mind really. it is important to distract yourself, I think.... Take the garbage out, do some dishes, mow the lawn....but when that good idea hits you during the process......make sure you log it somehow (I've been thinking about buying one of those tiny digital recorders you see at the drugstores)..

Anyways, I find this thread veryt theraputic, we all go thru this. I'm interested in all thoughts.

AV

I'm working on a rock album also. I'm pretty much burnt out from it. I started it about 4 months ago and worked on it pretty much everyday. I haven't done anything for the last month though, I just can't face going back to it. I've got 6 tracks fully laid down, all guitar, bass and drums. All vocals are written (just about) but I just can't face recording the vocals. It really takes it out of me. I figure once I've built my energy back up and can face going back to these tracks I'll blast through all the vocals in about 20 - 30 days (hopefully). It would be great if that was the end. But it's not, still got mixing :(. Mixing my own rock tracks, with me playing and singing on has always been so tedious. EVERY tiny little thing in the mix has to be perfect, I can't put it out there with something slightly off because it's me playing and singing, lol. Drives me crazy. That's why I love working on orchestral tracks, you don't invest the same amount you do as actually recording everything yourself. It's a much quicker and smoother experience.

- Rick.

[Maverick]

So what I do is, write 3-4 song ideas, and then pick the one that feels it has the most character. And just focus on that one. What about that one song, melody, or cue stood out? Well it's a discovery process, one only you can really come to a conclusion regarding.


Actually this is how my writing process usually goes. If i'm deliberately setting out the write something I'll start out with one idea which eventually will lose momentum and move on to the next. I normally have about 3 or 4 ideas to pick from, most of the time one really stands out. So i'll go with that, sometimes it writes itself and sometimes it goes nowhere. I know every idea isn't going to be smooth and work out well. Sometimes you just have to push through and keep going and eventually you'll have something that was worth the effort. I guess that's something I'll have to take into consideration in the future when I lose momentum on a track.

- Rick.