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NorthWest
04-11-2005, 05:05 PM
I don't know how you guys feel about it but I think group buys with 60% discounts etc is like spitting loyal customers in the face for paying the full price.

I have purchased Platinum at the full price and the Pro upgrade at a 30% discount.

For the 30% discount I paid now over 6 months in advance which seems sort of fair considering everyone had the same chance right from the beginning to join or not.

Yet group buys punish people who buy and don't wait, which will change my policy with this comany never ever to buy anything from them at full price again. And never right away when it gets released.

Sorry guys. I mean, come on, you've asked for it.

If you release something in the future I will wait like all the others and buy when the group buy comes along.

Of course it's your due right as a company to have any policy you like. I know that I'm extremely fed up with it and just will not support you anymore.

It's not morally right to sell a product for less then half of the price when other customers who paid much more didn't even get a chance to own it, because it isn't even released.

And please don't jump in defending this policy only because you are on the group buy list or a potential candidate for it. ;-)

Put you personal greed aside for one second and think if this is a fair way of dealing with customers who just paid the full price without knowing that a group buy will come along.

Or try to convince me not to feel this way with a valid point.

Steve

josejherring
04-11-2005, 05:34 PM
I certainly understand your point.

I paid full price for gold. I missed the group buy by about 4 weeks. But at the time I didn't even have the $400 for the group buy. Then I got a job and I needed Gold so I bought Gold at full price.

I guess that I only buy things when I need them. I never buy things just to have them on hand. So I never really pay attention to the group buy deals. Though platinum sounds good. I don't think I'll need it until I get a job that would justify spending the money.

So I think their reasoning is that when they release a product that those who need it and can afford it will pay full price. Later once the profits been made then those who can't afford it will benefit from a group buy. Very alrtruistic. Maybe not fair but I understand why they do the group buys.

Well atleast from my perspective even though I haven't benefited I understand why they do what they do.

But believe me a lot of people including some of Nick's and Doug's collegues question the group buy. It's their product. I guess they can do what they please as long as they provide quality product.

Cheers,

Jose

Stefan Podell
04-11-2005, 05:49 PM
Steve,

I certainly can understand your frustration. I think there are a number of people who feel the same way. Generally, it seems that the longer someone had a product before the Group Buy, the more okay with the Group Buy they are. After all, they had the use of the product, and hopefully used it to make a lot of money, for that period of time.

But that's not to say I think you should change your mind. You're entitled to do your business however you like, as are EW/QL.

In my case, I doubt I'll be buying Platinum. I just don't have the funds right now, as I've spent a lot on libraries in the last 5 months, including the Gold Group Buy. I hadn't been waiting for that. I just happened to discover NSS a day or two before the Buy was announced.

I wasn't totally clear on this part of your post. It sounded like you were talking about Platinum Pro. This Buy is only for Platinum. Someone upgrading to Pro now would still have to pay $3000.

It's not morally right to sell a product for less then half of the price when other customers who paid much more didn't even get a chance to own it, because it isn't even released.

Now, if history repeats itself, there might be a Group Buy for the Pro editions about 12-18 months after they're released. But I'm not even sure I'd expect that. The primary motivation for the Gold and Platinum Buys was to build those user bases to increase the market for the Pro updates. Maybe a Buy for the Pro updates would be harbinger of the arrival of Pro 2 (Extra Pro?).

Best,
Stefan

Doug Rogers
04-11-2005, 06:40 PM
If you read the Platinum Group Buy topic you will see this has already been discussed.

Here was my response -

"Platinum has been on the market for 18 months, most professional users have more than recovered their investment in the time they have had the library (some with their very first job).

All products go down in price after a time, especially when the market becomes saturated with similar products, that's just a fact of life. The early purchasers pay a premium to have the tool first, that's pretty consistent with all businesses. We waited a year for the Gold Group Buy (which added another 820 users that obviously weren't interested at the original price) and 18 months for this Platinum Group Buy.

In addition, our timing is strategic as the PRO UPGRADES will be released soon. It's in our interest to have the largest user base and accordingly that is why this Group Buy exists. Sure, if the lowest price is reached it will be a bargain for these purchasers, but keep in mind these purchasers wouldn't buy it at the full price or they would have already. We all pay a premium for being first, that's consistent with most product purchases. Professional customers actually value that advantage."

Therefore, you can count on price reductions after a substantial period of time (we would never do a Group Buy in the first year of release). We believe Group Buys are a good thing. They enable those that don't make a ton of money out of this business to get the best products at a price they can afford (similar to our education discounts). The downside is they have to wait a substantial period of time to get the lower price, but to these users that's OK.

Now let's move on.

- Doug