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luima
06-25-2005, 01:02 AM
This is a mockup of the well known Dies Irae from the Mozart´s Requiem.
Was scored with SONAR 4 using 2GB of RAM and the Kompact VST bouncing in three steps, first the orchestra and then the Choirs F and the Choirs S.
The patches are the Forte ones in every section SATB, one section per instrument.
You will notice that in some phrases, Sopranos are rised up an eighth and Basses lowered another eighth, or interchange of notes between Sopranos and Altos. This was my choice in order to keep the voices into the default range of SC.


http://personales.upv.es/jcmasia/MOZART_DIES_IRAE.mp3

The soprano text is:

"Dies irae dies illa solvet saeclum in favila teste David cum Sibylla Quantus tremor est futurus Quando judex est venturus cuncta stricte discusurus Dies irae dies illa solvet saeclum in favila teste David cum Sibylla Quantus tremor est futurus Quando judex est venturus cuncta stricte discusurus Dies irae dies illa Dies irae dies illa Quantus tremor est futurus Quando judex est venturus cuncta stricte discusurus cuncta stricte stricte discusurus cuncta stricte stricte discusurus"



As sugested by you, I completed the orchestration (replaced in the link above)

Also post an mp3 with the choirs "a cappella".

http://personales.upv.es/jcmasia/choirs.mp3

Hope you enjoy it
Luis

Beach
06-25-2005, 03:51 AM
Luis,
it is impressive!!!!
i don't wanna comment the orchestra part, but the choir part is really great!!!
I think this is really a difficult piece, but you make the choir sounds really great!
Just one thing for me that I have listened several time the original piece:
as we are talking about the God's ira, maybe you could add some vibrato to the choir in order to reach a sound that better represent the ira of the god. So this is what I think but anyway you have done a great work,
congratulations,
Roberto

neoTypic
06-25-2005, 06:12 AM
The orchestral parts don't really do it for me, but the expression you got out of the choir is pretty damn impressive! Wow! *blink*

Would you mind posting an mp3 with just the choir parts?

luima
06-25-2005, 11:05 AM
Roberto, Neo, I really apreciate your comments.

The first impressed was me, I started this mockup just as an exercise to learn the use of SC/WB.

My intention was to learn about the choirs part, so I recalled an score that was as old as my first Edirol SC and replaced the instruments for EWSQL Gold to make a simple rithm with the timpani and fill in the gaps.

Then scored the chorus parts and wrote the Votox text, latin phonetics are easy for spanish people.

When I heard completed the F section, even without any expresion or controller set, I was really impresed for the quality of sound, so kept doing with the S section and added some expression. After that I decided that these sounds should be shared just as they was with the choirs almost "nude".

You are right, the choir really "blinks" but is not my effort, I did very little, it is due to varios GENIUS: Mozart and the SC team including Nuno, whose WB will be an standard to follow in the future years.

BTW this piece is not intended to be posted in the contest because I think it can be done much better.

Neo, I will send to your mail the choirs solo mp3.

regards

Luis

GORILLA
06-25-2005, 11:50 AM
Those Choirs are awesome!!!

Nick Phoenix
06-25-2005, 08:41 PM
Great stuff. The consonants could be a touch louder. The timpani sounds bad, loud and robotic. I think the whole thing is slightly panned to the left too. I would love to hear this with improved orchestra and some tweaking!! Thanks for posting.

Mills2k
06-25-2005, 09:16 PM
I agree with Nick-- the consonants are very non-existant. And having sung this piece (which is SO FUN), I know exactly what they're supposed to be saying without seeing anything :D. As in, I'm not sure if the consonants are there at all, or if I'm just imposing my prior knowledge of the words and filling it in in my head. The orchestra in the back is quite lacking as has already been pointed out, and could really help give it some big punch. The strings are very machine-gunny, and the timpani, as Nick said, is like a robot. But the chorus, for the most part, sound very good. If only there were consonants... I love how the choir sounds like it's choking on "cuncta stricte" when they say the flipped r of stricte at 1:01 :D. Coolness though!

jc5
06-25-2005, 11:15 PM
A nice effort - I was waiting for someone to do something like this. :)
I agree that the consonants could be more strongly enunciated. I would also go over the votox for some of the vowel sounds too - they are not quite perfect.. I think with a little more effort (and perhaps a touch more practice with WB) you can get this sounding near perfect in terms of pronounciation. The performance is already quite impressive, nicely expressive. You may considering picking up the tempo just a little, making things more incisive. It is the apocalypse after all. ;)

This example gives me hope that with a little clever manipulation of the latin votox, it should be possible to give convincing renderings of italian texts!

Nick Phoenix
06-25-2005, 11:21 PM
forget the panning comment.

amo
06-25-2005, 11:37 PM
Nice work on the vocals ! I love that piece and this is a very good start, could be improved but you must know that I'm sure.
What about putting the text in the wordbuilder databae ? would you mind ?

regards,
amo

aryeh
06-26-2005, 08:04 AM
Greetings,

I really liked your demo. Even the low tech orchestra. The piece as a whole had an authentic and refreshing quality to it. Bravo!

What I liked most about the technical side of the production was that the vocals seemed to be very enunciated. Listening to the Mozart, I thought to myself that if I understood Latin, every word would probably be clear to comprehend. I haven’t found this with most of the other SC demo work. You mentioned that you did everything at forte. Interesting. Is there a setting on the word builder which evokes hard articulation? It would be interesting to hear both your (and others) experience working with the WordBuilder on the forums. I.e. the learning curve, time involved to convert ones language to the WordBuilder, time involved to make the performance realistic, etc.

A couple of questions and requests:

1. Could you please tell me what the vocal ranges are for each section in relation to the piano keyboard? E.g. Altos: lowest note is A below middle C. Highest note is the second G above middle C.

2. I too would very much like to hear the choir without the instruments. When demos were originally mentioned, I hoped to hear solo work, mostly in Unison, that would show the SC without being “hidden” by a lot of production. (IMHO, as good as they were, it would have been better if most of the initial official demos would have showcased the SC product without orchestra. To me at least, they seemed more like demos to get film work; the choirs mostly being a texture in the orchestration and not clear to understand.) I’m looking to analyze whether the SC will work for my application — a Broadway style chorus — whether in part or in whole. Thus, I really need to hear them soloed.

3. A request: If you have a chance, perhaps you might want to try doing something in English? It would be great to hear you apply your technique to something in a pop style with only one or two sections singing in unison. This might prove insightful as to the possibilities with the WordBuilder.

It would be great to hear such work from other users on the forum also. Yes, it’s great to hear ones fully produced masterpiece on the forums; however, there is also a place for the experimental and technical. Users should not be shy. As SC is a new technology, at this stage, “practice” recordings would prove insightful and useful in showing what the product is like to work with and how far the technology can be taken.

Again, great demo.

Regards,

Aryeh Har-Even
http://www.Har-Even.com

15” Powerbook 1.33 GHz, 1.25 RAM
DP 4.12
Metric Halo ULN-2

chocothrax
06-26-2005, 08:26 AM
Sounds like you found some midifile on the net and ran the sounds through it. Quite uhh robotic.

luima
06-27-2005, 01:30 AM
As sugested by you, I completed the orchestration

http://personales.upv.es/jcmasia/MOZART_DIES_IRAE.mp3

Also post an mp3 with the choirs "a cappella".

http://personales.upv.es/jcmasia/choirs.mp3

Hope you enjoy it
Luis

lovelysilence
06-27-2005, 02:13 AM
Gosh, i like the sound of that accapella and you sure seem to know how to use your library.
Thumbs up, mate. This sure is great publicity for East West.

luima
06-27-2005, 02:19 AM
Aryeh,

In SC there are several Choirs, apart form the soloists: S,A,T,B, Boys, Women, Men
each recorded in a different range:

S: A3(69)-E5(88)
A: F2(53)-E4(76)
T: E2(52)-D4(74)
B: B0(35)-A2(57)
Boys: C3(60)-B4(83)
Women: F2(53)-E5(88)
Men: B0(35)-D4(74)

With respect to the patches you have, among others I have still not tried, the Forte and Medium which not require much memory (with 2 Gbyte you can load a full SATB section) and also the Dynamic, which requires more memory, but you can control, via CC1, the transition from Piano to Forte.

For your second question there is a solo choirs version of Dies Irae in my last post.

I am not planning to do, in this moment, nothing in English neither pop music, but a curious thing I found when experimenting with the Word Builder, is that when singing plain Spanish words (my first language) it talked with a clear American-English accent.

About the learning curve I can tell you that I received SC one week before posting, but still rests a lot of things to explore and experiment with this awesome library.

Regards

Luis

IvanP
06-27-2005, 03:29 AM
The improved version is REALLY EXCELLENT!! a bit more tweaking and more work on the consonants (I really miss the "S" in Dies Irae) and it would be (almost) perfect!

¡Enhorabuena! ;)

Iván

luima
06-27-2005, 04:17 AM
Ivan,
I admire your works from long ago. I appreciate your opinions. For the final "s" is hard to get this sound. Still not found a good choice that works in every patches and words. On the soporano line is suficient with a Votox "ess" but still not work in other patches, is cuestion of experimenting. The consonant volume is set at maximum.

Muchas gracias por tus comentarios.

Luis

neoTypic
06-27-2005, 06:18 AM
Awesome stuff! :D

Vissequ
06-27-2005, 10:25 AM
This sounds AMAZING and very realistic.

Wonderful job!

Nick Phoenix
06-27-2005, 12:04 PM
Sounds great, but I really can't hear the non-pitched consonants at all. It would sound pretty great if they were audible. Are you writing the non-pitched consonants in capitals in votox??

Beach
06-27-2005, 01:42 PM
Luis,
awesome job!!!!
It is really great!!
I know that di-ES it would be better, but you have done a beautiful job.
Only my congratulations,
Roberto

lovelysilence
06-27-2005, 03:49 PM
Roberto, you can of course only say that, cause you're great yourself. (I checked your demo hihi) :)

luima
06-27-2005, 04:37 PM
Nick, Roberto,

I Shall follow your advices, just learnt that "Dies" in Latin should be written in Votox as "dEez" not "dEess", I works fine in in every patch. I also put this it in the "hints" secction"

Thanks.

aryeh
06-28-2005, 09:05 AM
Muchas gracias Luis,

Vive in Mexico por tres y media meses in '85 - '86. Hablo en poco Espanol. Pero, necesito MUCHO practica. So back to English.

Again, thanks for the info. Thought the solo vocal tracks sounded pretty articulate on its own. Impressive. You mentioned memory. If one loaded say the Women's section (to get a working vocal range (e.g. C3 - G4), how much memory would one need? (I'm assuming the women's and men's sections work with the WordBuilder.) I'm using a G4 Powerbook with 1.25 ram and Digital Performer. Would this work? If so, one could then record the female parts and then do the male parts afterward. Make sense?

Have a great day and regards,

Aryeh
http://www.Har-Even.com

15” Powerbook 1.33 GHz, 1.25 RAM
DP 4.12
Metric Halo ULN-2

luima
06-28-2005, 09:44 AM
Muchas gracias Luis,

Again, thanks for the info. Thought the solo vocal tracks sounded pretty articulate on its own. Impressive. You mentioned memory. If one loaded say the Women's section (to get a working vocal range (e.g. C3 - G4), how much memory would one need? (I'm assuming the women's and men's sections work with the WordBuilder.) I'm using a G4 Powerbook with 1.25 ram and Digital Performer. Would this work? If so, one could then record the female parts and then do the male parts afterward. Make sense?


Yes, Men and Women Sections works with WB.

With 1.25 RAM you should be able to load at least a full Men or Women section.
Once you have loaded, lets say Women and if you are satisfied with the results of your score, then bounce the track to audio (every sequencer has this option). Then unload the Women section to free the used memory and then load the Men choir. (don´t delete the Women Midi track so you will be able to modify afterwards if you need).

Now you can score the Men choir in its own midi track (you can still hear the Women audio track while scoring) and again bounce the Men track when finished.

When you need to modify one of the midi tracks make sure you unload the unwanted and load the wanted corresponding section...

That is the way most of us are working even having 2 GB of memory. You never have enough.

BTW Aryeh, you asked me if planning something in English and a more modern style, at that moment I was thinking in a mockup of Mahler, but after hearing your question it changed my mind, English is easier than German. So Yesterday started a new composition of my own inspired on an W.Whitman poem. I shall let you know when it is ready.

Saludos cordiales

Luis

aryeh
06-28-2005, 09:38 PM
Hi Luis,

Glad to hear you're writing. I've been so busy recording vocal tracks since last fall, haven't done much of anything else. But hit a milestone on Sunday. Finally finished recording all the solo vocal parts (both sung and spoken) for the upcoming double CD of my musical on the story of Moses. This project has been in the work for many years. So all I have left to are the chorus parts. The question is SC or live singers? Will decide which path to venture down after a well deserved vacation during July.

W.Whitman. Cool. What general style are you thinking of setting the text to? Remember, just because the poem is from a certain era doesn't mean that ones music has to match the time period. In other words: if you feel like rapping the poem in a Hip-Hop style, go for it. At any rate, looking forward to hearing what you come up with. Please drop me a line when you post so that I don't miss your new opus.

Again, thanks so much for the info.

Muy buenas noches,

Aryeh
aryeh258@yahoo.com
http://www.Har-Even.com

luima
06-29-2005, 02:15 AM
In the original link (first post) You´ll find the last updated versión of Dies Irae. where has been corrected several phonetic problems, like the final "s" that now is clearly heard.
Luis

lgrohn
06-29-2005, 03:36 AM
Great. But still Latin is pronounced in a English way.

bmiranda
06-29-2005, 05:04 AM
BTW Aryeh, you asked me if planning something in English and a more modern style, at that moment I was thinking in a mockup of Mahler...

Luis

That would be an excellent choice Luis :) Mahler is my favourite composer!
It would be nice to hear how the SC would perform the 8th symphony :)

Beach
06-29-2005, 01:02 PM
Great, great and great again!!!!!!
My God it is wonderful!!!
Luis you are very talented!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't know if I will never reach you level!!!! :o
Best regards,
Roberto

Nick Phoenix
06-29-2005, 03:53 PM
Nick, Roberto,

I Shall follow your advices, just learnt that "Dies" in Latin should be written in Votox as "dEez" not "dEess", I works fine in in every patch. I also put this it in the "hints" secction"

Thanks.

or you can write it " dE eS " REMEMBER non-pitched consonants like S and T MUST be capitalized!!

banquo
07-01-2005, 04:42 AM
Wow, I was seriously impressed with this, Luima. This demo may well push me to buy SC.

any chance of Lacrimosa? ;) :D

luima
07-01-2005, 06:57 AM
Wow, I was seriously impressed with this, Luima. This demo may well push me to buy SC.

any chance of Lacrimosa? ;) :D

Many Thanks banquo, SC is a groundbreaking product. the quality of samples is extraordinary. It has a learning curve, of course, but is worth the effort.
Beeing human voice the first and more beatifull instrument to be played, it opens the spectrum of applications, to such styles as Opera or Pop music, etc..

Frederick
07-03-2005, 12:34 PM
What a great effort luima. You chose a very difficult piece which is well known so its easy to critique it.

Besides some of the technical issues with the voices that were already mentioned, the big thing for me was the feeling that the choir was singing behind the notes as if they were dragging, especially in the faster passages - that gave more of jerky robotic feel against what was happening with the symphonic parts. Is it that on the faster parts the choir wasn't able to pull off the word articulations without slowing them down to make it sound somewhat plausible? Just a question because I don't have SC to check on it myself.

I think with some hard work (not that you hadn't already put it in) that this piece could work but be prepared, lots of people already know this piece and will know when its not happening in places. I commend you on the work done so far. Thanks for sharing it.

Edit: btw, the work you're doing is encouraging because not everybody is wanting to mock up other people's stuff but this is great exercise for you to do for future pieces of your own stuff. Keep at it.