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View Full Version : My answer to the group buy thread


NorthWest
04-12-2005, 04:17 AM
By closing the group buy thread I assume that you don't feel comfortable to talk about it.

I just want to make one final point:

you wrote:


Here was my response -

"Platinum has been on the market for 18 months, most professional users have more than recovered their investment in the time they have had the library (some with their very first job).

All products go down in price after a time, especially when the market becomes saturated with similar products, that's just a fact of life. The early purchasers pay a premium to have the tool first, that's pretty consistent with all businesses. We waited a year for the Gold Group Buy (which added another 820 users that obviously weren't interested at the original price) and 18 months for this Platinum Group Buy.
- Doug


Platinum Pro isn't even released. So how can you say it's fair for someone who just bought the Pro Upgrade only to find out a couple of weeks later there is now a group buy available?

Funnily all the other posts said they understand it from the company's viewpoint. But of course we all do! But I'm talking about the viewpoint of existing customers who just paid more because they didn't know a group buy will come along.

Anyway..... I've made my point. I'm not happy about this group buy trend that seems to develop with certain companies. I'd rather have one price for everyone. Or rather after some time (1-2years after the product hit the market) when you re-couped costs make the product available for a cheaper price for everyone.

This whole limited time offer things just leave a bad taste in my mouth and remind me a lot of Digidesign policy who always forced customers too quickly to change their hardware. That's one of the reasons I abandoned Digidesign ProTools after 10 years.

I know what I have to say might not change things but I wanted to make my feelings heard.

I always bought the top of the range product from EW (Platinum, then the Pro upgrade, Colossus, Ra, etc). It's a lot of money and, no I don't make a living at the moment with what I do in the studio.

Steve

neoTypic
04-12-2005, 04:39 AM
Funny how you can jam your foot in your mouth and yet you manage to still "speak"! ;)

EWQL Platinum Pro Edition is not the subject of the group buy. EWQL Platinum Edition is.

It was locked, not deleted. They aren't trying to hide anything, they have discussed their business plan many times over and more openly than most do.

It makes sense to add more to their base user group so they can potentially sell more upgrades at 3k a pop.

Please research things before leaping to conclusions. You're bound to miss the branch and smack yourself horribly on the way down.

wayne_rowley
04-12-2005, 04:44 AM
Not wanting to go on for too long on this as Doug has made his position clear (and I agree with it). BTW I don't think you can call locking the thread censorship. Deleting it would be, but the admins did not do that (unlike some forums which delete any threads/posts which even mention a group buy!).

Anyhow...

It is frustrating to buy something at one price only to find shortly afterwards that it is available cheaper...

BUT...

If you bought a TV for Ģ500 quid only to find a week later it was in a 50% sale off - would you have grounds to complain? You could try but the store would say 'sorry mate - tough luck'.

You are lucky enough to be able to afford these things at full price, and you benefit by being able to get and use the product sooner and for longer - many others are not so fortunate. Without sales or group buys myself and many others would never be able to afford these great products (though I can't afford platinum even on the group buy - rats). I would love Colossus and RA, but will have to wait for group buys - even if they are a year or more away.

At the end of the day you bought a product that you could afford at a time that was right for you. It is unfortunate that a group buy was around the corner that is a fact of the free market economy. In the IT industry prices are changing all the time... you buy a computer and the next day it is cheaper.

Bottom line... you cannot 'ban' group buys unless you also ban 'sales' and the free market economy.

Take care,
Wayne

NorthWest
04-12-2005, 05:08 AM
Relax guys! I don't want to go to war over this!

We all made our points and that's it. I don't like group buys. And you do.

So what... We live in a free market.

I never wanted to ban anything. Just wanted to make my voice heard how I feel about something and see how others feel about it.

And you are right I. I made a mistake. I thought the group buy was for the Platinum Pro. And that got my alarm bells ringing. I apologize for that.

cheers,

Steve

FilmComposerZ
04-12-2005, 06:04 AM
NorthWest,

I bought GOLD last year at 995 plus shipping etc. One month later the group buy came out. Did I say something??? I don't feel cheated on. Here's the deal:

While the people who can afford to buy Platinum do so as soon as it is released, we group buyers have to wait a whole year and maybe a year and a half.

I guess then if I buy a brand new Ford Mustang 2005 at 30 grand and next year it costs 20000 because of anew motor technology that is incorporated into the 2006 model, then I should call Ford and have them return me 10000 bucks....Right? Per your comments, this is how it should work. It doesn't work like that. Everything becomes obsolete as new products and better ones come out.

So don't worry about it and wait till the GBuys for SC, RA and Collosus come out. Now if you buy them now, your problem. But you have the advantage that you have them already. I have to wait a year to a year and a half.

Pablo

neoTypic
04-12-2005, 07:15 AM
Relax guys! I don't want to go to war over this!

We all made our points and that's it. I don't like group buys. And you do.

So what... We live in a free market.

I never wanted to ban anything. Just wanted to make my voice heard how I feel about something and see how others feel about it.

And you are right I. I made a mistake. I thought the group buy was for the Platinum Pro. And that got my alarm bells ringing. I apologize for that.

cheers,

Steve

No big. You were just a tad... boorish in your approach. I mean no ill will, just good naturedly catty at times. ;)

Jumping to conclusions isn't very becoming when you haven't checked your facts is all.

Sean R. Beeson
04-12-2005, 07:35 AM
Doug and Nick are doing quite a favorable thing by offering a group buy, I can't even afford it, because I have no money :) I have like 12$ cash.

Beeson

madfiddler
04-12-2005, 07:54 AM
I've learnt a lot from the group buy system that seems to happen in the sample library market. I was one of the original Platinum pre-orderers. I'm not going to moan or anything about it any more. Old news. But yes, to see it at such a reduced price is a little heart breaking. On the plus side with that, I got Stormdrum as a freebee thankyou plus enough points to get Percussive Adventures 2 for $70. Now I know about the group buy system, I look forward to getting more top quality EWQL libraries if I can, at group buy prices.

You hardly hear of it over here in the UK. The first one I think was the EWQLSO Gold buy, which was nothing to do with the EW one and was organised by the UK distributer. This was done a few months after the EW Gold Group buy.. Like everything here in the UK, it wasn't as cheap as the EW one either, shame but a fact ok nice high taxes.

I've picked up a few nice libraries now with group buys from a number of companies, ones which I either could never have afforded to buy in the first place, or ones I wouldn't have considered buying otherwise.

My thoughts on Plat Pro group buy are, wait a few years if you can... I'm sure it'll be a group buy at some stage... and at the same time technology will be more powerful, at a cheaper price.. so it'll be easier to use.

Mark.

TestSubject
04-12-2005, 10:00 AM
For the record, I certainly hope the administrators don't make a habit of responding to potential customers with "Now let's move on."

That put me off I must say.

I also don't understand how you can compare market value depreciation to a 60% discount. Seems a little extreme to me. Nonetheless, this is how supply & demand works. Some customers will get screwed while others prosper.

When I benefit, I'm not complaining. Consumers can be strategic, too. Shop smart. Buy smart. Business is business.

Doug Rogers
04-12-2005, 10:08 AM
By closing the group buy thread I assume that you don't feel comfortable to talk about it.

Not at all, I answered your post in detail, but frankly, we've been over and over this issue both here and at NS and explained our view many times.

I like to spend what little time I have here helping our customers and potential customers. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree about certain subjects, hopefully that's what this forum is all about, or it would get really boring very quickly.

Platinum Pro isn't even released. So how can you say it's fair for someone who just bought the Pro Upgrade only to find out a couple of weeks later there is now a group buy available?

The Group Buy is not for the Pro Upgrade.

I'd rather have one price for everyone. Or rather after some time (1-2years after the product hit the market) when you re-couped costs make the product available for a cheaper price for everyone.

That's exactly what we've done. Platinum has been out for 18 months now.

I know what I have to say might not change things but I wanted to make my feelings heard.

To the contrary, we're always listening to customer feedback, but I think you got your facts wrong in this case. You are talking about a product that is not included in the Group Buy.

I always bought the top of the range product from EW (Platinum, then the Pro upgrade, Colossus, Ra, etc). It's a lot of money and, no I don't make a living at the moment with what I do in the studio.

Steve, we really appreciate your support, we try to balance our production costs and still enable as many as possible to obtain these great composing tools. We believe offering them at a substantial discount years after release enables us to do that. Our Pro customers that do this for a living need these tools as soon as they are available, value using them first, and are prepared to pay a premium to do so. They are in effect subsidizing those that have to wait a year or more to get a Group Buy price. We actually think it's a win win situation for all.

- Doug

Nick Phoenix
04-12-2005, 10:09 AM
To tell the truth, group buys, computers dropping in price every 3 months, having to have a "Ralphs' card, to get a discount at the supermarket, all go against my nature. But I don't know who's to blame really and I don't know what we can do about it. Most people love the group buys. Now let's move on. :) :) :eek:

js33
04-12-2005, 01:28 PM
Yes and I can hardly wait for group buys on RA, Collossus and EWQLSC. :D Oh and the Gold Pro as well.

Rock on guys.

Cheers,
JS

Stefan Podell
04-12-2005, 01:57 PM
having to have a "Ralphs' card, to get a discount at the supermarket

I *KNOW*!!!!! That bugs me, too.

Now where's the OT board... ;)

Wes37
04-12-2005, 04:25 PM
Group buys are good for all, here's why:

Any new product's price point has to be at a level for the company to recoup the costs of making the product, packaging, etc. Once sales plateu, or reach a point where future sales will not likely provide an adequate cost/benifit ratio for continued support and development, then there are normally two options; reduce the price or discontinue the product.

EW came up with a better idea with the group buy. The group buy added many new users and generated revenue for future product development, and the added bonus is that the larger user base coupled with the continuation of the product means more product support for early users.

Wes

metrobot
04-12-2005, 08:34 PM
hey guys. I wish I had $1200 and a G6, and I'd be in on the groupbuy in a second! ;)

Here's how I approach this stuff to keep sane: DO NOT focus on the price. Ever! Focus on capability. What capability does the product get you? Is that capability worth the money you have to spend to get it? If so, then it's worth that amount of money. End of story. Otherwise, you will go insane. The best way to make your old high price worth it is to use the product a lot, and always be ahead in expertise of the monkey crew who gets it for cheap.

folmann
04-12-2005, 11:57 PM
I bought EWQLSO Platinum as one of the first 100 customers. I donīt see any problem at all in the current group buy. I am just surprised they waited with it for so long. Samples drop in value - just like most other materialistic things in life.

Now live with it - or die without it.

evaclear
04-15-2005, 08:44 PM
I love group buys and cheap products!

I was also 'unfortunate' in buying Gold (still very reduced!) at a certain price only to have it reduced 1 week later, but who cares! I missed the 'best' of the deals going around this time, but next time, I will pounce! :) And, yes, i'm still a very happy customer.

Keep up the good work Doug and gang! Good deals attract good deals... and maybe the dark side over at VSL will start selling opus 1 at $300 :D