Live vs. Programmed (a.k.a. How do you write?)

[Debinani]

The ways people go about writing their music has always fascinated me. Since I've never been much of a study, I've always just sort of relied on instinct and performance - which ends up showing through in good and bad ways - especially with percussion and whatnot.
So I ask everyone - how do you write? Why do you recommend it? Do you have any good references or tips to learning to compose in that manner?

Here's usually what I do:
I usually start with a melody and harmony in my head.
Then I lay down tracks - 99.9999% of the time they're performed on a keyboard, though with triggered loops (like StormDrum) I use the piano roll.
After that, if I made any obvious mistakes, I tweak the notes just a tiny bit in piano roll or staff view - but often I can't figure out how to make those functions work for me so I end up laying down the track again.
Every time I've tried using an automated quantitize it's ended in tears.
Just recently I've started playing with controller envelopes a bit and adding note triggers for the EWQL keyswitch patches.
Usually after maybe 3 virtual instruments (or one SC track), I have to dump the track to wave data so my computer stops choking.
At that point I usually move on to the mix-down, adjust and/or automate levels and maybe add a compressor. All I have to work with are what came with Sonar PE - and I find that I tend to slap the "Grand Hall" reverb in Kompakt on freakin everything and just leave it at that.

All in all, I think what I'd like to become more proficient in is programming the data in staff/roll/event view for things that are just too complex to orchestrate in my head, as well as maybe pick up on a little percussion theory so mine doesn't end up being so boring - so any advice would be wonderful.

The Gear:
P4 3 ghz
2gb ram
SATA library drives
Sonar 4 PE

[David_Lucas]

Unlike most people here, I'm certain, I also do live performance and no quantization.
I think this makes the piece sound a bit more natural, but also makes the fast stuff difficult enough that I usually leave it out.

I think it's all a matter of patience. I'm kind of a manic personality. If I can't write the piece in one day, I give up. Obviously I do this as a hobby rather than a profession. If you can work consistently on a piece for a couple weeks, I believe programming is superior to live performance (in the digital realm, anyway). There are just too many ways you can screw up trying to perform a keyboard like a violin.

[neoTypic]

I tend to write in a notation program, then print out parts, and then play them in. ;)

[White Noise]

Wow, that's really interesting. Personally, I find that my way of working is often dictated to me by how much time I have. If it's on someone else's dime, I tend to work a lot in Reason 2.5 sync'ed to Nuendo 2 for audio recording. This allows me to build a rythmic skeleton up very quickly. From there I usually punch in EWQLSO to flesh out my thematic ideas with since it adds a layer of production value that is very quick to hear.

Thematically, I do lot of humming in my head before I begin though. I like to start with a melody that succinctly states what I'm trying to achieve. From there I can use species counterpoint to add detail. Course sometimes I just plunk out chords. I use a lot of different modal and modulatory techiniques to break out of boxes but it all starts with a melody.

[TheoKrueger]

I only use the piano roll for composing, no keyboard or played parts.

I usually start a full SATB (or more voices) melody on a single track and then take each voice to its corresponding track ( S vlns , Alto violas, T cellos and B basses ) then i select the 4 tracks and edit them all together continuing the song. When more instruments come in , i select them as well and edit all together. Most of the times i start writing for strings and then move the parts to different channels.

Later on, i draw all the controllers for each track seperately.

Just to get a really rough idea:)

[Hardy Heern]

I only use the piano roll for composing, no keyboard or played parts.

I usually start a full SATB (or more voices) melody on a single track and then take each voice to its corresponding track ( S vlns , Alto violas, T cellos and B basses ) then i select the 4 tracks and edit them all together continuing the song. When more instruments come in , i select them as well and edit all together. Most of the times i start writing for strings and then move the parts to different channels.

Later on, i draw all the controllers for each track seperately.

Just to get a really rough idea:)

I only use the piano roll for composing, no keyboard or played parts. Later on, i draw all the controllers for each track seperately.

Yes, That's exactly what I do to.......except whithout your talent Theodore! I loop around 2,4 or 8bars depending on what I'm doing and move onto the next section when the previous one is starting to drive me mad :)

Frank

[matthew82475]

Since all of my work is intended for live performance, I write entirely in score form. I usually write condensed score at the piano, then orchestrate in my notation software Finale 2005. From there, I export a MIDI file (with Human Playback on to add a bit of humanness to it) and open it in CUBASE LE. Then I take tweak what I've got to get the best performance I can out of EWQLSO Silver. My recordings are only meant as mockups so I don't put too much concern in to audio-realism; just the best I can get effeciently.

Matt

[tango9jeff]

hey here's a big tip to all having trouble getting down percussion parts or fast drum patterns *AKA 6 tuplet and fast 16 patterns on taiko's and tom toms and snares. Quantize is horrible. It works decent for offbeat stuff that needs a very random feel to it like Bongo patterns and what not but What I found works great for me now is I bought print music *Finale* which goes for about 70 bucks. I found its best to open a session Write out your basic drum parts that require hard fast patterns and then simply export them into MIDI files and load into your seqencer and assign them and boom! Now you have perfectly played drum patterns and its soo easy! No more worries about your playing!

I also write from piano roll and play most parts live with quantize aid or Notation just for rock solid parts when I need them. Hope this helps someone.

Jeff

[Debinani]

I assume the Finale notation editor is a ton easier to work with than, say, the one in Sonar right?

[tango9jeff]

very easy man Just select tom tom or snare and find the right line on the staff and pull out the triplet tool and select either 8th or 16th or 32 notes and boom type it out. Then Go pull out your accent tool and go build your pattern. Its very easy. I normally build about a 8 bar line or so then in pro tools I repeat it and sink it. I can use the same part and tweak it for say fast string runs. It works great for creating fast string runs in combat music cues. Just write out a pattern and put it on the 11 violins 3way round robin and then bring out the 18 violins and hit the harmonic inversion of the note in the scale and you have your self a very intense sounding string run as the back bone. Now you just transpose it every 20 notes or so in a melodic line to create your line. It works great and you know its in perfect time. I'll post this song in about a week as an example of being done in notation. I do still play all horn parts and sustained string passages by hand for realism with editing.

Jeff

[ELP71]

I, like David_Lucas, play in my parts live - except no sequencing usually, just recorded audio. I know this is sacrelige among some and that my life would probably be easier otherwise, but oh well I've had good results.

If I encounter a fast run, I may sequence or break it up across multiple tracks then blend.

As for composition - I start at the piano and do a melody/chords sketch. Then factor in couterpoint and then finalize on Finale. I'm new to samples and sequencing so we will have to see how I utlize those tools. My main gig with the samples right now doesn't involve composition.