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Old 06-12-2008, 08:29 AM
Joza Joza is offline
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I agree. The film is what it is and my job is to do music for it. I just mean it would have been easier if that part had lasted a bit longer. It is suposed to be "climatic" and kind of the greatest part of the film and music, so I would have wanted to be able to stay longer in that mood instead of going to the lifes end so fast. But well, I guess that just pictures the life-cycle even beter. All the fun always ends too soon.
  #122  
Old 06-12-2008, 09:04 AM
MPDmike MPDmike is offline
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I do understand what you mean Joza. It would have been much more satisfying to fully develop our own vision of what that video could have been. For example, it would be interesting if we had been allowed to speed up and slow down sections of it, or even swap the order of the sections to create our own version. But that was not the task.

So, if the mood near the end of the video cuts off too soon, then I think we have to reflect that by using some instrument or musical device to create a feeling of a premature ending. After all, if we were creating some music for a Hollywood film, we could not go to the Director and ask them to change a scene so that we can do something different with the music. We would be expected to find a way around the problem.

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  #123  
Old 06-12-2008, 09:18 AM
Joza Joza is offline
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Quote:
So, if the mood near the end of the video cuts off too soon, then I think we have to reflect that by using some instrument or musical device to create a feeling of a premature ending.
That might actually be an interesting solution. So instead of trying to get it all fit into that time, I would kind of surprisingly change to the next mood highlighting the "what? did it really have to stop already?"-feeling instead of trying to fade it away. (Dont mind if you didnt understand anything, my english isnt too good when I have to explain complicated things..)
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:50 AM
MPDmike MPDmike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joza View Post
.. instead of trying to get it all fit into that time, I would kind of surprisingly change to the next mood highlighting the "what? did it really have to stop already?"-feeling instead of trying to fade it away.
Yes, I think that was what I was thinking myself, the movie is telling us that the mood has changed too quickly, and this must mean something emotionally, to make us feel surprised or dissatisfied, or unfulfilled.

Ten composers would each come up with ten different solutions to this problem, and some of the competition entries will not make a big thing of the transition that occurs near the end. It would be more dramatic to have something happen abruptly, and to show an emotion like shock at suddenly moving from the light to the darkness.

Anyway, I hope we both manage to complete our entries, and then see how we each found our own solutions to show these moods. Your English is fine.
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Old 06-12-2008, 11:45 PM
Joza Joza is offline
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Yeah, good luck for you too!
  #126  
Old 06-13-2008, 08:26 PM
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zuijlen zuijlen is offline
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Joza, MPDmike, I hope you will be able to finish in time too.

I don't know how you work, but I've used the possibility to load the video in my sequencer (Sonar). I had not worked that way before, but I found it very helpful, especially with the timing, which is indeed important. And even though I had scored for film previously, this is a though one due to the short duration and the fact that it is quite abstract. Also, you usually get to talk to the director!

Initially the movie didn't make much sense to me, but by starting to add music to it it became clearer (in part because I had to watch it many times). It's also helpful if you have a pair of fresh eyes and ears available. Show it to somebody who hasn't seen and heard it before.
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  #127  
Old 06-13-2008, 10:31 PM
MPDmike MPDmike is offline
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Thanks for the tips Zuijlen. I appreciate it when somebody with some experience can offer advice.

In Cubase I see the series of video frames to match up with the audio tracks. What puzzled me at first was that the video is timed in seconds, but it is better to work in beats and bars. By chance I noticed that the piece is 120 seconds long and so with a tempo of 60 or 120 bpm it sort of works out as some convenient way to create a synchronised musical beat. If I want to place a sound at a particular event in the video, then I found I can do this by trial and error - sliding the sound back and forth until it occurs at the same time as the picture frame I had chosen. I seem to be learning quite a lot by working on the piece, and so I must be grateful to Zennor for giving us all an interesting video to practice on.
  #128  
Old 06-13-2008, 11:07 PM
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zuijlen zuijlen is offline
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MPDmike, I think it's great you're making all these discoveries; it's a good way to learn. For this project you're not only composer, but also the sound editor, so you will encounter instances where a sound has to be moved just a little bit to get it right. Sometimes, if you view it afterwards you will notice that the frame you selected is still not quite right and that you need to move the sound a bit more back or forth. It's all part of the fun, I think.

You may already be doing this but I kept separate audio tracks for each "instrument". I then assembled everything in a video editing program (Adobe Premiere). The separate tracks allow for flexibility if you want to make some final adjustments. It is often required for film-editing purposes, so that if the strings are too loud, for example, it's easy to lower their volume.
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  #129  
Old 06-14-2008, 12:03 AM
Joza Joza is offline
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I also use the video in my cubase. Im glad I bought the new cubase some time ago so I can do it. Otherwise I could never get the timing right.

Quote:
In Cubase I see the series of video frames to match up with the audio tracks
Hmm.. Maybe we have different cubases then. In my cubase studio 4 I see the video playing real time along with the music when I press play. Not just some frames..

I myself compose in a normal way. Instead of moving notes to get the timing right, I make adjustments to the tempo track. So in my piece the tempo is changing all the time, more or less. Im not sure if it is a good way, but I can't think of better at the moment..
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Old 06-14-2008, 06:11 AM
MPDmike MPDmike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joza View Post
Hmm.. Maybe we have different cubases then. In my cubase studio 4 I see the video playing real time along with the music when I press play. Not just some frames..

I myself compose in a normal way. Instead of moving notes to get the timing right, I make adjustments to the tempo track. So in my piece the tempo is changing all the time
As far as video tracks are concerned, Studio 4 appears to be the same as the full version I have. You need to activate the video thumbnail track to see the individual frames. I can't tell you how to do that right now as I don't have Cubase on.

I don't think it makes much difference how you go about composing, except that the end result must match the video timing. I suppose you could vary the tempo so far that it makes the soundtrack slow down and speed up too much, but I expect you would try to make the changes as smooth as possible.

zuijlen, I don't have any video editing program, so I guess I will have to do all the editing in Cubase. I agree with you that it makes sense to keep the tracks separate, although it is starting to get a bit crowded on my monitor now!
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