Akoustik Piano....I could have gone for Ivory!

[chest]

Originally Posted by persentio

T_T Cant afford the Pianos... Sigh. Had to settle for the Composer Bundle so Ill be making do with the old old Bosendorfer.

I'd say you shouldn't be too concerned or put off by having just the basic EW Bosendorfer (even if you feel it doesn't sound riight when you play it), because there's a world of difference between how a VI piano feels when you play it and how useful it can be in context.

For example, once, when I was curious to hear how harmonica samples in the early NI Kompakt library would sound with other instruments, I knocked up a quick-and-dirty MIDI sequence with the harmonica and piano/bass/drums from that library. During recording, the piano ("Fazioli Soft") felt VERY inadequate, but on playback, it was acceptable: it came across as if fairly loudly played throughout - probably mainly because there isn't much timbral range, so it just seems to come across as loud, no matter how you try to play it; on playback, you're not aware of the lack of response to touch (because you don't know how it was being played). The piano playing sounded a bit "heavy fisted", but that didn't matter.

Later, also out of curiosity, I tried substituting Garritan JABB's "Steinway Jazz Piano" for the NI "Fazioli" - it too can be frustrating to play because of its limitations. Alone, these two pianos sound very different; eg the "Steinway" is brighter/harsher. But in the mix the difference was much smaller: in some places, it was, even, barely noticeable if the pianos were swapped during playback. Overall, there wasn't much difference to the sound of the whole piece if the "Steinway" replaced the "Fazioli", in spite of their different solo sound; perhaps there would be places where the "Fazioli" would be preferred, but this couldn't really be because that piano was representing the original performance much better, because it discards a lot of performance details.

I think the lesson from this is to keep your mind on "the big picture" (the eventual mix) and not be put off when an instrument flaunts its inadequacies in front of you. Of course, this is true with any ensemble of VIs, though I expect I'm not unusual in finding it harder to ignore weaknesses in pianos than in instruments I don't play.

You may well find yourself quite pleased with mock-ups you make involving the basic EW Bosendorfer, even though better pianos would probably make a mix sound better, especially if the piano was a bit exposed. (And, of course, waiting a while before buying a better virtual piano should mean you'll get something a lot better and cheaper than you could get now.)

[Nanto Warrior]

Interesting guys....I didnt actually like the sound of the Ivory pianos from the demos posted on their site and went for the Akoustik as there were more pianos for not much difference in price. Having said that however, Ive recently reinstalled AP with ONLY the Bechstein and Steinway grand, leaving out the Bosendorfer and Steingraber-the latter two are utterly useless to me.

In terms of stylistic adaptability, doesnt EQ play a significant role in how well your piano sound is suited? I do not use EQ much on the pianos at all, but would rather make do with and squeeze every ounce out of a good product than get another of the same. I play a lot of jazz music, and whilst the Bosendorfer is SUPPOSEDLY good for classical performance, I have found it an AWFUL sound to practice Chopin's Waltz Opus 64! I prefer a simple all-in-one solution for piano.

Cheers!

[chest]

Originally Posted by Nanto Warrior

whilst the Bosendorfer is SUPPOSEDLY good for classical performance, I have found it an AWFUL sound to practice Chopin's Waltz Opus 64!

Which Bosendorfer - the bad one in AP?

[chest]

Originally Posted by nikolas

after getting pianoteq, I simply stoped using Ivory, and I would recomend anyone to try it out. Especially for live playing!

I've read other people pleased with the playability of Pianoteq, which seems encouraging, but when I listened to the demos on Pianoteq's website a few months ago, I thought the instrument didn't sound enough like a piano. What are your impressions of the sound when you use it?

I'd be more tempted to try it if it was feasible to take a MIDI track recorded with Pianoteq and reallocate it to other pianos. I've found that, other than with lower-end virtual pianos where there isn't much subtlety in their response, MIDI recorded with one virtual piano sometimes won't work properly with another - it can be necessary to alter the velocities quite substantially, and in a way that isn't easy to do.

[nikolas]

I do like the sound quite a lot, but it can be tweaked to your needs really.

I did try to input with Pianoteq and listen afterwards in Ivory, but it really really didn't sound any good, so didn't try that again.

Pianoteq has a trial version of 30 days or so, you know that right? It's so tiny, that it would be a crime not to try it. Just see how you feel. It just works... better under my fingers.

[Nanto Warrior]

Originally Posted by chest

Which Bosendorfer - the bad one in AP?

Yes, the AP Bosendofer, in a word.............sucks.

[LEX]

Originally Posted by Nanto Warrior

Yes, the AP Bosendofer, in a word.............sucks.

EW 290 Bosen is nice for somethings as well.

Now I am wondering if I sound even both with the AP install.

LEX

[chest]

Originally Posted by LEX

Now I am wondering if I sound even both with the AP install.

I think the AP Steinway is worth trying: the basic sound is OK; also AP has several easy-to-adjust parameters that will instantly nudge the timbre and keyboard response in various directions, as well as EQ that's also easy/intuitive to use, if a bit sensitive to small mouse movements.

[tmhuud]

Lol. I had a lapse of better judgement when I joined this thread! I should have stuck with my usual statement reg pianos: " Recommending or suggesting a certain piano to users can be quite dangerous. It is such a *personal* choice that the only *good* suggestion is to immerse yourself in demos (if and when avaialble) try trhem out on multiple controllers - always keeping musical style in mind and then decide for yourself."

[Nanto Warrior]

Very true! This preference is almost as subjective as your preference for blondes or brunettes.